The British Nobility thread 1: Ending 2022


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Alexander, Viscount Newport son of Earl of Bradford married Miss Eliza Liepina, the newly titled Viscountess Newport at St. Andrew's Church of Weston Park in Staffordshire the last weekend


https://www.tatler.com/gallery/wedding-of-viscount-and-viscountess-newport

Marchioness of Bath attends at the Tatler party to celebrate the Opening Night of "My Fair Lady" at the London Coliseum on 18 May

https://media.gettyimages.com/photo...party-to-the-picture-id1240751438?s=2048x2048

https://www.gettyimages.com/search/2/image?events=775814996
 
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The second item in Richard Eden's article is also interesting:


This could be a first for the ancient House of Lords: I can disclose that a transwoman called Matilda Simon, 67, wants to join the red leather benches.

What makes Matilda's petition unique is that she was born Matthew Simon, only son of the 2nd Lord Simon of Wythenshawe, who died in 2001 aged 87. She would be known as Lord — not Lady — Simon.

Educated at St Paul's School, London, Matthew graduated from Balliol College, Oxford, before becoming a senior lecturer at Manchester University.

The Lord Speaker's communications adviser, Lucy Dargahi, tells me that the matter will be referred to the Lord Chancellor 'to make sure the claim is legitimate'.

If it is, Matilda's name will be added to the list of candidates for the Lords' by-elections — held when one of the 92 hereditary peers dies.

Matilda, adds Dargahi, would then 'be the first transgender person, as far as we are aware, eligible to stand in the by-election'.

A transgender woman may inherit a British peerage, even though a transgender man or a cisgender woman (Matilda apparently has a cisgender older sister) may not (except where there is a special remainder), because of Section 16 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, which states that:

16 Peerages etc.

The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act—

(a) does not affect the descent of any peerage or dignity or title of honour, and

(b) does not affect the devolution of any property limited (expressly or not) by a will or other instrument to devolve (as nearly as the law permits) along with any peerage or dignity or title of honour unless an intention that it should do so is expressed in the will or other instrument.

On an unrelated note, isn't 21 years an atypically long period of time by the standards of the British nobility to petition for the succession to a peerage?
 
The second item in Richard Eden's article is also interesting:









A transgender woman may inherit a British peerage, even though a transgender man or a cisgender woman (Matilda apparently has a cisgender older sister) may not (except where there is a special remainder), because of Section 16 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, which states that:







On an unrelated note, isn't 21 years an atypically long period of time by the standards of the British nobility to petition for the succession to a peerage?

Matilda, the former Matthew, became Baron Simon of Wythenshave upon the death of their father in 2001. The petition wasn't about them becoming Lord Simon, but if they would remain so after transitioning to a woman.

According to the minutes of the House of Lords their petition has been successful: https://lordsbusiness.parliament.uk...260&sectionId=40&businessPaperDate=2022-05-18
 
Happy Flower Wedding to the new parents-of-two, Duke and Duchess of Sussex!:lucky::britflag2::usaflag::cheers::hug::rose2::rose2::rose2::rose2::heartflower:
 
Matilda, the former Matthew, became Baron Simon of Wythenshave upon the death of their father in 2001. The petition wasn't about them becoming Lord Simon, but if they would remain so after transitioning to a woman.

According to the minutes of the House of Lords their petition has been successful: https://lordsbusiness.parliament.uk...260&sectionId=40&businessPaperDate=2022-05-18

Thank you for the link! It seems Richard Eden's report was correct regarding Matilda Simon taking the style of Lord Simon of Wythenshawe rather than Lady or Baroness. I wonder if that was her choice or if it is a legal necessity because she claimed the peerage on the basis of being regarded as male under nobiliary law.

The Lord Chancellor reported that Matilda Simon had established her claim to the Barony of Simon of Wythenshawe in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. The Clerk of the Parliaments was accordingly directed to enter Lord Simon of Wythenshawe on the register of hereditary peers maintained under Standing Order 9(4).

The petition itself was not related to Matthew's transition to Matilda. Every successor to a peerage is required to prove their succession as a prerequisite for official recognition as peer. An additional petition is required where the peer seeks the right to stand in by-elections to the House of Lords.

http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/images/downloads/Guidance-Notes---Peerage-claims.pdf

6. A claim to establish succession to a hereditary peerage is initiated by lodging a duly executed statutory declaration together with any supporting documentary evidence. A draft form of statutory declaration for a straightforward case accompanies these notes.

7. In cases where the claimant seeks to have the right to stand in by-elections to fill a vacant seat in the House of Lords and also in the case of an Irish peerage (notwithstanding that such peerage does not give its holder any right to stand in by-elections to fill a vacant seat in the House of Lords) the claimant is also required to lodge a petition, which is a formal document setting out the claimant’s alleged descent entitling the claimant to the title being claimed.

At present, the official electronic version of the Roll of the Peerage does not include the Barony of Simon of Wythenshawe, which indicates nobody had been legally recognized as successor to the deceased baron up until now.
 
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Three Lambton sisters, written out of their disgraced father’s will, are battling their younger brother, who refuses to pay them a penny from his inheritance
Lambton inheritance: 'Selfish Ned is damaging our family’ - Telegraph

"As for the family feud, he says, there is nothing the three sisters want more than to heal the rift with their brother – before it is too late. “We’re all getting old,” Worsthorne sighs"....after reading the artucle it sounded as if the sisters were more interested in the money than in healing any rift with a brother they had never been close to. Trying to claim a share of assets sold before their fathers death seems very odd. Since Lucinda is apparently now living in a house her father left her it would appear as if daddy did not totally forget about his daughters. Why should the late earl have been expected to provide for any of his adult children who presumably have made their own way on the world for a number of years before his death?

The Lambton women don't want the title - they are after the money. That's nothing to do with primogeniture, its greed.

Can you (general you) explain why you claim it is "greedy", "odd", and "more interested in money than in healing [the] rift" for the Lambton sisters to fight for a fair share of their father's inheritance, while you consider it acceptable for Ned Lambton to claim "daddy"'s entire inheritance for himself?
 
The Marchioness of Bath attended the Royal Academy of Arts summer preview party at the Royal Academy of Arts in London this evening, June 15:


** Pic ** gettyimages gallery **
 
Can you (general you) explain why you claim it is "greedy", "odd", and "more interested in money than in healing [the] rift" for the Lambton sisters to fight for a fair share of their father's inheritance, while you consider it acceptable for Ned Lambton to claim "daddy"'s entire inheritance for himself?


Why were the daughters written out of their father's will?
 
Why were the daughters written out of their father's will?

For not being born male. Quoting the eldest daughter, Lady Lucinda Lambton:

"Gender discrimination – they are two words I would never dream of using but there is no other way to describe it. My brother was left whatever it was, £200m, and we were left not even a pencil."​

Another daughter of an aristocrat, (Lady) Liza Campbell, wrote:

"One of the myths of the aristocracy is that the family also-rans shelter beneath a patrician umbrella. Often the opposite is true. Fathers’ “discretion” excludes daughters from wills purely because of their sex. My sisters and I fell into this category, but luckily our brother is always welcoming and generous, so we do not fall into the category of girls who are effectively exiled, never even allowed shared use of cottages on family land."​
 
For not being born male

Please correct me, if I am wrong, but you said "written out" of the last will. Now it sounds like they were not included in the first place - that is a difference.

Anyway, but I wonder, if in the "matriarchalic" Royal Houses, like Norway, Sweden etc. the male "heirs", which are the second born there, are discriminated against as well... or if they inherit the same amount of money as their big sisters.

They wont get the castles and all, that is sure.

Btw The girls here in this thread, which are talked about, they got a good name, good connections and a good education - this is more than the most get.

And nobody talks, like always, about the second, third... follow me... born sons, if there is a first-born male heir. Here in Germany, as soon as they are 18, they are forced by friendly pressure of their loving families to lay down any claims of inheritence they might have had - written down and court battle proof!... - Because the survival of the name and the undivided estate is of outmost importance.
 
Traditionally, younger sons would go into the Armed Forces, the church or sometimes the law, and would sometimes inherit money from a childless uncle or godfather. Daughters would get a significant amount of money as a dowry. Unmarried daughters were very rarely "exiled" unless there'd been a big falling out.
 
Please correct me, if I am wrong, but you said "written out" of the last will. Now it sounds like they were not included in the first place - that is a difference.

Anyway, but I wonder, if in the "matriarchalic" Royal Houses, like Norway, Sweden etc. the male "heirs", which are the second born there, are discriminated against as well... or if they inherit the same amount of money as their big sisters.

They wont get the castles and all, that is sure.

Btw The girls here in this thread, which are talked about, they got a good name, good connections and a good education - this is more than the most get.

And nobody talks, like always, about the second, third... follow me... born sons, if there is a first-born male heir. Here in Germany, as soon as they are 18, they are forced by friendly pressure of their loving families to lay down any claims of inheritence they might have had - written down and court battle proof!... - Because the survival of the name and the undivided estate is of outmost importance.

Swedish journalist Björn af Kleen has written quite a lot about the same issue. About how siblings to the oldest son are, as you say, "forced by friendly pressure" to relinquish their inheritance and support the application to continue the family entail. Swedish entails were legally abolished from 1964 onwards on the death of the current holder but some have been allowed to continue to protect estates of great cultural and historical significance.
Funnily enough when abolishing the entails the authorities didn't see any need in abolishing the entails of the Royal family.
 
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The Marchioness of Bath attended Annabel's Summer Solstice party in London on June 21:


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The Marchioness of Bath attended the VIP opening of the Africa Fashion exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum in London yesterday, June 28:


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The Marchioness of Bath attended The Serpentine Gallery Summer Gala in London yesterday, June 30:


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The Marchioness of Bath attended day 7 of Wimbledon 2022, including the Polo Ralph Lauren & British Vogue event at Wimbledon today, July 3:


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Can you (general you) explain why you claim it is "greedy", "odd", and "more interested in money than in healing [the] rift" for the Lambton sisters to fight for a fair share of their father's inheritance, while you consider it acceptable for Ned Lambton to claim "daddy"'s entire inheritance for himself?
Those sister’s received a house from their father so it’s not as if they were left on the streets
 
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Is there any news apart from the Marchioness of Bath?��
 
Can you (general you) explain why you claim it is "greedy", "odd", and "more interested in money than in healing [the] rift" for the Lambton sisters to fight for a fair share of their father's inheritance, while you consider it acceptable for Ned Lambton to claim "daddy"'s entire inheritance for himself?

Those sister’s received a house from their father so it’s not as if they were left on the streets

It is not as if Ned Lambton would be left on the streets if he conceded his sisters a fair share, or even a less than fair share, of the inheritance, so I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question about why posters have called the sisters "greedy", "odd", and "more interested in money than in healing [the] rift" for fighting for a share, while there is no criticism of the brother for claiming the entire inheritance for himself.


Though it is not central to the story, in regards to the house from their father, I presume that refers to the following sentence in the Telegraph's story: "He and Lucinda live in Buckinghamshire, in a house left to her by her father."

My understanding of the story is that the house was gifted to Lucinda before her father's passing, as both the Telegraph and Independent stories are otherwise clear on the point that the daughters were left nothing in the late Lord Lambton's will:

When Lord Lambton died in 2006, at the age of 84, he left the whole of his £12 million estate to Ned. [...] his five daughters received nothing. [...] While they all accept, as confirmed by legal documents, that “none is mentioned in Lord Lambton’s will”, [...]

[...] Ned served a High Court writ on his sisters, preventing them from claiming any of his inheritance. [...]

"Gender discrimination – they are two words I would never dream of using but there is no other way to describe it. My brother was left whatever it was, £200m, and we were left not even a pencil. [...]
 
It is not as if Ned Lambton would be left on the streets if he conceded his sisters a fair share, or even a less than fair share, of the inheritance, so I'm afraid that doesn't answer my question about why posters have called the sisters "greedy", "odd", and "more interested in money than in healing [the] rift" for fighting for a share, while there is no criticism of the brother for claiming the entire inheritance for himself.


Though it is not central to the story, in regards to the house from their father, I presume that refers to the following sentence in the Telegraph's story: "He and Lucinda live in Buckinghamshire, in a house left to her by her father."

My understanding of the story is that the house was gifted to Lucinda before her father's passing, as both the Telegraph and Independent stories are otherwise clear on the point that the daughters were left nothing in the late Lord Lambton's will:
I didn’t say they were greedy though and getting a house from your father is better than getting nothing at all. Plus if they weren’t disabled or mentally incapacitated, I don’t see why they shouldn’t have gotten jobs and worked. If he signed a contract making a promise to provide for them, then he should stick to it, but if he did not I don’t see why should give them anything. More importantly, do we know if there are liquid assets to give. No one is criticizing Ned because he didn’t change the will to favor himself, the inheritance was given to him by his father. I do wonder what the legal stipulations in that will
 
I didn’t say they were greedy though

I know, but as my question as to why the daughters and not the son were called greedy (etc.) was quoted in your post, I assume it was meant as an answer to that question. Have I misunderstood?


and getting a house from your father is better than getting nothing at all.

The relevant comparison, though, is to their brother Ned Lambton, who received an undivided £12 million inheritance from their father, which is very far from receiving nothing at all.


Plus if they weren’t disabled or mentally incapacitated, I don’t see why they shouldn’t have gotten jobs and worked.

The same could be said about Ned Lambton. Indeed, it would be even more difficult in his case to justify his demand to keep the full £12 million on the basis of need, compared to his sisters' smaller claims of £1 million.


If he signed a contract making a promise to provide for them, then he should stick to it,

It seems that even what limited promises their father made, he failed to execute, according to his son-in-law:

“In my hearing, the father promised my wife the second house on the Italian estate; a very lovely house,” recalls Worsthorne. “But then he got dementia and in the end there was nothing left.”​


but if he did not I don’t see why should give them anything.

It is not so much a question of whether the late Earl should have provided for his adult children in his will (on which reasonable people may differ, whether or not they condone sexism), but of whether the late Earl and current Earl were right to insist on everything being provided to the man and nothing to the women.


More importantly, do we know if there are liquid assets to give.

Apparently yes, given the previous agreement between the siblings:

Before the writ was issued, the sisters thought they had reached an agreement with their brother. Indeed, Lucinda had planned what to do with her share. “She undertook to pay for one of our grandchildren to go to boarding school and put up the money, thinking it was in the bag,” explains Worsthorne. “It was so embarrassing when the [settlement] didn’t go through and she had to tell the school she hadn’t raised the money after all.”​


No one is criticizing Ned because he didn’t change the will to favor himself,

Neither have his sisters, but I expect what you mean is that Ned's behavior is treated as more acceptable because it is conforming to their late father's written will. Perhaps you are right about the beliefs behind the comments, though I note that one of the quoted posters was much less intense in his comments about a male nobleman who contested his late grandfather's will:

No one stopped her from having children, and only his wish to keep the inheritance stopped them from marrying. At the end of the day it was all about free will and personal decisions they made individually or as a couple.
 
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