The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1061  
Old 07-22-2018, 12:44 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NN, Lithuania
Posts: 1,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


The most important reason why only one of the 92 (not 90) hereditary peers sitting in the House of Lords is a woman, even though hereditary peeresses are in theory eligible for election, is that the rules of the vast majority of hereditary peerages ban female descendants from being hereditary peeresses.

According to Debrett’s Peerage and Baronetage 2011, there were 790 male hereditary peers and only 13 hereditary peeresses in their own right in 2011.
They don't ban. All titles have their reminders, usually for male heirs. It's part of history.
Unlike Spaniards Britons don't plan to cash on peerage titles. Thus they aren't interested in adding more heirs to titles.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1062  
Old 07-22-2018, 12:47 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
VERY shortly [March 2019], this will be NONE of the ECHR's business ! As Rudolph rightly says they are likely so be told so 'in NO uncertain terms'...
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1063  
Old 07-22-2018, 12:58 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
They don't ban. All titles have their reminders, usually for male heirs. It's part of history.
Unlike Spaniards Britons don't plan to cash on peerage titles. Thus they aren't interested in adding more heirs to titles.
I am not sure what you mean by "cash on peerage titles", but the usual remainder "heirs male of the body, lawfully begotten" does ban women from inheriting the peerage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
VERY shortly [March 2019], this will be NONE of the ECHR's business ! As Rudolph rightly says they are likely so be told so 'in NO uncertain terms'...
Why is that? As far as I'm aware, Brexit will have no effect on Britain's membership of the ECHR.
Reply With Quote
  #1064  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:04 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
On the face of it, Brexit has no implications whatever for the UK’s relationship with the Strasbourg-based European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR), the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), or for either of these institutions themselves. Formally, by leaving the EU, the UK would merely join the existing 19 non-EU states which belong to the 47-member Council of Europe, the parent body of the ECHR and the ECtHR.

However the very idea that a judgement so intimately affecting our second chamber, would be enacted following Brexit is unthinkable [imo].
It would merely confirm what MANY think [certainly the majority that voted in the Brexit referendum], that Brussels/Strasbourg is simply unable to keep its mitts out of our business..
Reply With Quote
  #1065  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:09 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NN, Lithuania
Posts: 1,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I am not sure what you mean by "cash on peerage titles", but the usual remainder "heirs male of the body, lawfully begotten" does ban women from inheriting the peerage.
But there is no ban to be elected in the House of Lords.

Spaniards can inherited titles only after paying for them. If a heir doesn't have money somebody (usually a kin) else can pay and receive titles.
Reply With Quote
  #1066  
Old 07-22-2018, 01:36 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
But there is no ban to be elected in the House of Lords.
Hereditary peeresses are not banned from being elected, as I wrote above, but in the vast majority of noble families, women are banned from holding the hereditary peerage, making them ineligible to be elected to the House of Lords.

(I have edited the question in my first post to be more accurate.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
Spaniards can inherited titles only after paying for them. If a heir doesn't have money somebody (usually a kin) else can pay and receive titles.
I see, but I'm sure the fees would not depend on the gender of the heir in Britain or in Spain.
Reply With Quote
  #1067  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:23 PM
CyrilVladisla's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 7,619
Princess Beatrice of the United Kingdom's husband was originally His Illustrious Highness Count Henry of Battenberg. Did their son Alexander inherit this title of Count of Battenberg?
Reply With Quote
  #1068  
Old 07-28-2018, 08:33 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,953
On July 17, 2018, YouGov conducted a survey on 5,310 British adults, weighted to be representative of the Great Britain population.

https://yougov.co.uk/opi/surveys/res...289e2/toplines


2. Most hereditary titles, like Duke or Earl, can only be inherited by male children. Do you think most hereditary titles should continue to only descend through male children, or should female children have the same right to inherit them?

10% Most titles should continue to only be inherited by male children
71% Female children should have the same right to inherit titles
19% Don't know



Views vary substantially by age, gender, and political party, but are more even across region and social grade.

Only 65% of those ages 18 to 24 say female children should have the same right to inherit titles, compared to 75% of those age 50 and older.

Only 64% of men say female children should have the same right to inherit titles, compared to 79% of women.

Liberal Democrats are the most likely to say that female children should have the same right to inherit titles (82%), followed by Labour (76%), the SNP (74%), Conservatives (69%), and UKIP (51%).
Reply With Quote
  #1069  
Old 07-28-2018, 08:37 AM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
They don't ban. All titles have their reminders, usually for male heirs. It's part of history.
Unlike Spaniards Britons don't plan to cash on peerage titles. Thus they aren't interested in adding more heirs to titles.
having a remainder to male heirs, means that there are very few female peers. Because except in unusual circumstnaces, the British peerage descends in the male line only....
Reply With Quote
  #1070  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:51 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
CrowdJustice Case Update

Two friends of mine, Carla Stanley [a member the family of the Earls of Derby] and Charlotte Carew-Pole [a member of the family of the Carew-Pole Baronetcy] have begun a [currently] fairly successful 'crowd funding' exercise to raise money to challenge Male Primogeniture in the British Peerage at the European Court of Human rights.

Their intention is enable the eldest child to inherit the title [regardless of gender] following the example of the royal family.

This is likely to prove VERY 'tricky' since the VAST majority of Peerages in existence were created [expressly and individually, in some cases HUNDREDS of years ago] to descend to 'heirs male of the body'.

Additionally [and perhaps] FAR more controversially, [since HMQ is the 'fount of ALL Honours' in the UK], if the case were to succeed effectively it would create legal precedent for a foreign Court to have jurisdiction over our Head of State.

Regardless of the merits of the case, this [in the era of Brexit] will not be popular or unchallenged.
Reply With Quote
  #1071  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:59 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
I agree

The fact is this was brought to the ECHR is because it’s completely outside the jurisdiction of British courts. British courts cannot rule on parliamentary procedure nor royal prerogative. Which are what peerages and eligibility to sit in the House of Lords fall under.
Reply With Quote
  #1072  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:10 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
The House of Lords is utterly uninterested since the majority of its Peers are now 'Life' and so have no Titles to bequeath.
So the only option was the ECHR, and a DEEPLY controversial one at that...
Reply With Quote
  #1073  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:15 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
The House of Lords is utterly uninterested since the majority of its Peers are now 'Life' and so have no Titles to bequeath.
So the only option was the ECHR, and a DEEPLY controversial one at that...
Exactly. It’s an attempt to go around British law. Which means even if the ECHR rules in favour, it will be completely ignored by British lawmakers.

Hereditary peerages aren’t even a minor priority for the government.
Reply With Quote
  #1074  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:30 PM
Missy-'s Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: The Beautiful PNW, United States
Posts: 526
Here's a subject the Duchess of Sussex should tackle but won't because it's not something the RF would/should take on. Shame that it won't go anywhere, but kudos for those bringing it to the public's attention.

It's things like this that make me glad I live in a Democracy, no matter how broken it may be. Monarchy and all it entails is such an anachronistic form of government imo.
Reply With Quote
  #1075  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:38 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 8,012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Here's a subject the Duchess of Sussex should tackle but won't because it's not something the RF would/should take on. Shame that it won't go anywhere, but kudos for those bringing it to the public's attention.
... [snipped]
Has a member of the royal family been asked for help in the case? If not, it is better to avoid dragging the royal family into one more disaster.
Reply With Quote
  #1076  
Old 08-01-2018, 03:06 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Herefordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,397
Quote:
make me glad I live in a Democracy
DOH.. we live in a Democracy too, and EVERY Monarchy in Europe is one too...
Reply With Quote
  #1077  
Old 08-02-2018, 02:37 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Here's a subject the Duchess of Sussex should tackle but won't because it's not something the RF would/should take on. Shame that it won't go anywhere, but kudos for those bringing it to the public's attention.

It's things like this that make me glad I live in a Democracy, no matter how broken it may be. Monarchy and all it entails is such an anachronistic form of government imo.
Why sould she take this on? It would be a complete waste of time, that she should be using to do something useful. And I don't know what is anachronisitic about a consitutiional monarchy.
Reply With Quote
  #1078  
Old 08-02-2018, 02:47 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 16,750
Regardless of whether or not the royal family could or would step up and campaign for this issue, never in a million years would the Duchess of Sussex be deemed appropriate to touch this with a 10 foot pole.

Its a British matter dealing with the British Peer system and right now, as far as everyone is concerned, Meghan is still an American citizen and has yet to be granted British citizenship.

Definitely a no go. Leave the political matters and the processing of complaints on the hereditary peerage remainders to those that can actually make the changes.
__________________
To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. ~~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~~
Reply With Quote
  #1079  
Old 08-02-2018, 02:52 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,476
Of course they coudlnt. It is far too controversial and political...
Reply With Quote
  #1080  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:05 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alpine village, Germany
Posts: 2,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy- View Post
Here's a subject the Duchess of Sussex should tackle but won't because it's not something the RF would/should take on. Shame that it won't go anywhere, but kudos for those bringing it to the public's attention.

It's things like this that make me glad I live in a Democracy, no matter how broken it may be. Monarchy and all it entails is such an anachronistic form of government imo.

Apart from some countries in the Middle or Central East, all monarchies are democracies, with an inheritance system for a head of state instead of a presidential/voted-for- system. If the majority of voters want, they can end the monarchy at any time. In all cases the government is depending on the parliament wehich is voted in by the voters through elections.



But it showed that tourists like monarchies, voters like the stability a monarchy seems to convey and thus far the people born into their position have showed astonishing respect for their duties and their people. So really it's a win-win situation, especially as the cost of a presidential system is much higher, because the same security, representation costs etc. are there but you have to pay the retirement pensions in addition. Most monarchies by now have down-sized, so only the necessary costs are payed by the taxpayers, not the luxuries.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
aristocracy, armstrong-jones, british nobility, countess, countess of snowdon, douglas, earl of snowdon, marie, phillip, snowdon, von hofmannsthal


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
British Royal Family Picture Thread james British Royals 68 05-31-2021 01:15 PM
The Royal Family of Spain Picture Thread, Part 1 Anna_R Royal Family of Spain 117 08-23-2020 08:56 AM
British Royal Family Current Events 2: November 2005-June 2006 Elspeth Current Events Archive 187 06-11-2006 01:10 AM
Infanta Leonor, News and Pictures Part 1: November 2005 - February 2006 Elsa M. Current Events Archive 192 02-18-2006 06:11 AM




Popular Tags
american archie mountbatten-windsor asia baby names birth britain britannia british british royal family british royals buckingham palace camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles china china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing chinese clarence house colorblindness commonwealth countries coronation crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii gemstones george vi gustaf vi adolf hello! henry viii history hypothetical monarchs jack brooksbank japan jewellery kensington palace king edward vii książ castle lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchy mongolia mountbatten names nara period plantinum jubilee pless politics portugal prince harry princess eugenie queen consort royalty of taiwan solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex swedish queen taiwan thai royal family united states wales


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:22 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×