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  #681  
Old 04-27-2021, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I wonder why the YouGov poll includes the Sussex's at all. If this is a poll on the popularity of the monarchy - it should really include those working for the monarchy. Or I might argue why they are not including the Princess of Wales and everyone who has left the royal family for that matter.

Ashamed to say that the increase in popularity for Prince Charles and Earl of Wessex is due to the death of the Duke of Edinburgh. The Duke of Edinburgh was famous for believing the quest for popularity was a fools errant. It is something he placed installed in Edward rather deeply. Edward was offered a PR campaign complete with spin doctor and foreign trip. Edward rejected it, not once but even when offered by the Queen. The Duke of Edinburgh sent him a bottle of wine.

I'm always surprised when You Gov includes: Zara Tindall, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie in their "Who are the popular members of the BRF?"
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  #682  
Old 04-27-2021, 05:54 PM
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Edward and Sophie may not rank as "most popular" but that, to me, is a reflection that this couple is very much "Team Windsor". A popularity poll will rarely signify the value a person brings to the work of the "Firm" and the monarchy. Anne doesn't pull in popularity ratings or even is mentioned much in the sense of the fashion world but she is "Team Windsor" and does things tirelessly to support it. Camilla has proven time and time again that its the importance of what she's doing over how important she is to the scheme of things. Of course, The Queen and William and Catherine rank high on the popularity scales but that doesn't lessen or add to their main goal of supporting the monarchy.

Andrew, Harry and Meghan have done things to lose the respect and admiration of not only the "Firm", but the people they served and that's reflected by a negative popularity rating. None of these three people really put "Team Windsor" behind their actions.

Charles is unique unto himself. Rarely though is his popularity rating based on the tremendous impact his work as The Prince of Wales has had. If you're looking for someone with quirks, idiosyncrasies and some outside of the box thinking, Charles is that person. You either admire him tremendously or you loathe him for past misdeeds. If popularity was measured by accomplishments, Charles would be at the top of the heap in my book.
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  #683  
Old 04-27-2021, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Ed and Sophie know how to play the long game and have done it quietly, discreetly, and apparently, successfully. They deserve the benefits of working hard.
I wonder if they will start including Sophie in the polls soon.
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  #684  
Old 04-27-2021, 06:54 PM
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Support for the Monarchy in the UK

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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think Edward and Sophie are doing a wonderful job, without getting much publicity or recognition, and people are realising that. Edward's come a long way from the days of It's A Royal Knockout! Good for him.


Agreed. They seem to do a great job and do it quietly. And understand what job actually is- and what it isn’t.

I’m really pleased in the uptick in interest in the already very successful DoE Awards. It sounds like such a great project. I said Philip’s death played a role in his popularity going up, but I wonder if all the publicity around the awards is playing a part too. (I saw a pic of Edward and Philip on, I think a website for the awards, and their smile was exactly the same. It was really something.)
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  #685  
Old 04-27-2021, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The UK is more than a bunch of old castles. It is home to 67 million citizens living in four nations, from the mountains and the glens in the North to the vibrant cosmopolitan city of London in the South.

Neighbour France is the most visited country in the world. And they have an enormous bunch of old castles as well. And no: they have no monarchy.

I very much doubt all those millions travelling to the UK would not do so anymore when there was no royal family.... The former monarchies of Italy, Austria, Germany, Portugal and Greece seem to do excellently, tourist-wise and old castles-wise.
I was not describing the UK as a "bunch of old castles." I am sorry if it sounded that way. I was referring to an earlier post #668 where it was said that no one wants to see Boris Johnson's house and I was stating my opinion that I would not be interested in seeing castles if there were no Monarchy. I have watched a TV program here in the US called "Aerial Britain" where a birds eye view of the UK is filmed from aircraft. It is incredibly beautiful and much more than just castles.
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  #686  
Old 04-27-2021, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
That’s a good question. Not to mention why Andrew is still on it. None of those 3 are working royals anymore.

Agreed- Charles and Edward’s increase is probably due to Philip’s death.

I tend to agree with Philip on the folly of courting popularity. Or playing for the cameras.
Popularity is something that can be given and taken away. I think the problem with popularity and being too focused on chasing the numbers for people in their situation is that it means they’re only as good as their last hit. A better alternative is aiming for respect; this is harder because it’s something that builds gradually over time, but it’s more durable once they’ve obtained it.

That said, I think the polls have their uses, mainly to see the trend over time. It says something that, of the core of the RF, the Queen, William and Kate consistently score very well. It’s also reassuring that Charles’ scores are stable, and the supporting royals like Anne and Edward are solid.

One of the questions asked if being a member of the BRF was more of a privilege or a burden and around 40 percent of respondents were insightful enough to answer “it’s both.” Shows that people are paying attention, at least!
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  #687  
Old 04-27-2021, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claire View Post
I wonder why the YouGov poll includes the Sussex's at all. If this is a poll on the popularity of the monarchy - it should really include those working for the monarchy. Or I might argue why they are not including the Princess of Wales and everyone who has left the royal family for that matter.

Ashamed to say that the increase in popularity for Prince Charles and Earl of Wessex is due to the death of the Duke of Edinburgh. The Duke of Edinburgh was famous for believing the quest for popularity was a fools errant. It is something he placed installed in Edward rather deeply. Edward was offered a PR campaign complete with spin doctor and foreign trip. Edward rejected it, not once but even when offered by the Queen. The Duke of Edinburgh sent him a bottle of wine.
Thank you for posting this story. I like the Wessex's and the DOE even more now:)
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  #688  
Old 04-27-2021, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Popularity is something that can be given and taken away. I think the problem with popularity and being too focused on chasing the numbers for people in their situation is that it means they’re only as good as their last hit. A better alternative is aiming for respect; this is harder because it’s something that builds gradually over time, but it’s more durable once they’ve obtained it.



That said, I think the polls have their uses, mainly to see the trend over time. It says something that, of the core of the RF, the Queen, William and Kate consistently score very well. It’s also reassuring that Charles’ scores are stable, and the supporting royals like Anne and Edward are solid.



One of the questions asked if being a member of the BRF was more of a privilege or a burden and around 40 percent of respondents were insightful enough to answer “it’s both.” Shows that people are paying attention, at least!


IA- with all of this- in particular, the goal of aiming for respect. It is more durable over time. That appears to me to be the goal of the current working members.
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  #689  
Old 04-28-2021, 06:24 AM
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I’m shocked that Charles did relatively well in this poll...I don’t expect it to last as it never does with him, but I’m glad anyway
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  #690  
Old 04-28-2021, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I’m shocked that Charles did relatively well in this poll...I don’t expect it to last as it never does with him, but I’m glad anyway

The focus is wrong in the poll. Aside of any personal popularities which can quite fluctuate (see Andrew, see Harry, see Charles) the core question is the desire of the people to keep the monarchy.


The question should not be; "Do you like Princess Anne?" The question should be: "Do you want to elect your own head of state? Or do you prefer the current hereditary system?" And response on that quite core question during the years shows a trend for maintaining a monarchy, which can be downward or upward. (In almost all monarchies the general curve from WWII to 2021 is slooooooooooowly, little bit by little bit, downward).
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  #691  
Old 04-28-2021, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The focus is wrong in the poll. Aside of any personal popularities which can quite fluctuate (see Andrew, see Harry, see Charles) the core question is the desire of the people to keep the monarchy.


The question should not be; "Do you like Princess Anne?" The question should be: "Do you want to elect your own head of state? Or do you prefer the current hereditary system?" And response on that quite core question during the years shows a trend for maintaining a monarchy, which can be downward or upward. (In almost all monarchies the general curve from WWII to 2021 is slooooooooooowly, little bit by little bit, downward).
YouGov did ask questions on whether or not Britain should have an elected head of state, who should succeed The Queen and should The Queen abdicate. They did at one point of the analysis article mentioned about these results, but then, you're right, it puts the popularity of each royal family members on the heading & blurb. There is even a question on Camilla's title when Charles become King.

{Results shown as 21-22 November 2019 | 21-22 Apr 2021 for most of these questions, except for the second on The Queen}

Quote:
Do you think Britain should continue to have a monarchy in the future, or should it be replaced with an elected head of state?
Should continue to have a monarchy: 63 | 63
Should have an elected head of state instead: 19 | 20
Don't know: 17 | 16
Quote:
Looking to the future, do you think the Queen should remain monarch for as long as she lives, or do you think she should retire and let the throne pass to her heirs?
She should remain Queen for the rest of her life: 64
She should retire and step down from the throne: 19
Don't know: 17
Quote:
Thinking about the future monarch, which of the following would you prefer?
Prince Charles should succeed as King after Queen Elizabeth II: 36 | 37
Prince William should succeed as King after Queen Elizabeth II instead of Prince Charles: 38 | 34
Neither - there should be no monarch after Queen Elizabeth II: 16 | 17
Don't know: 11 | 11
Quote:
If Prince Charles does become King, should his wife, the Duchess of Cornwall ...?
Become Queen: 13 | 14
Have the title of Princess Consort: 41 | 44
Not have any title at all: 30 |26
Don’t know: 17 | 17
PDF of full results: https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/op5ota7e...ourability.pdf

Quote:
Britons still want the Queen to remain in her post as the monarch turns 95
Despite the Queen being well beyond the age when most people retire, two thirds of Britons (64%) want her to remain in her job for the rest of her life. Only a fifth of the public (19%) say she should step down from the throne.

While William is a much more popular figure than Charles, public opinion on who should succeed the Queen is split. Approaching two in five people (37%) say Prince Charles should become King when she retires, while a similar number (34%) would like to see the throne go to grandson William. One in six people (17%) say there should be no monarch after the Queen.
Quote:
Britons are split on who should succeed the Queen
Younger people are generally more likely to say there should be no monarch, with three in ten 18-24 year olds (28%) preferring this option. But between father and son, a greater share prefer William at (25%), while 16% choose Charles. Among those aged 65+, half (50%) say Charles should become king while a third (33%) would rather see William do it.

If Charles becomes king, only 14% of Britons would like to see wife Camilla, whose popularity is low, become queen. Over two fifths (44%) prefer her to have the title of Princess Consort, while a quarter (26%) say she shouldn’t have any title at all.
YouGov analysis article: https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...oyals-improves
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  #692  
Old 04-28-2021, 07:42 AM
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Is Camilla’s popularity low due to Diana or are there other reasons as well? Thanks in advance.
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  #693  
Old 04-28-2021, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
YouGov did ask questions on whether or not Britain should have an elected head of state, who should succeed The Queen and should The Queen abdicate.

These polls only show how uninformed the citizens of the UK are. Nearly 40% want William as the next king? Then they have no idea how the kingship in the Uk works! There is no interregnung, noone to declare the new king. Once the queen takes her last breath, Charles is the new king. (And Camilla, as his wife, is the queen and would need a new title granted to her to become the Princess Consort, as she is no Princess in her own right yet).


How can you answer such questions with these answers when there is no way "it" will happen according to the people's wishes? You'd have to start right now if you want to get rid of Charles for William, get parliament to start working on that solution, get the states where HM is queen to accept that as well a.s.o. Popularity is all fine but to form a state you have laws and to change them you need a political will and time to see to the legal basics. Not just the opinion of "the people".
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  #694  
Old 04-28-2021, 07:50 AM
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The desire for keeping a monarchy is no longer in the 80 percents. A score between 60% and 70% for the monarchy is more or less the figure in most monarchies. The desire for a republic is between 15-25% in most monarchies, which shows that there is also a big group whom could not care less about monarchy or republic.


All monarchies in North-West Europe have seen scores between 80-90% for maintaining a monarchy after WW II and all monarchies have seen this drop from the 80 percents to the 60 percents in the past 75 years, slooooooowly, little bit by little bit. No matter how immense popular or unpopular various individueal royals were in whichever monarchy, the general trend over the last 7 decades is clear.
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  #695  
Old 04-28-2021, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Royalist.in.NC View Post
Is Camilla’s popularity low due to Diana or are there other reasons as well? Thanks in advance.
There are several reasons - and I am going to be rather blunt here.

1. She was the other woman in the relationship. People were more eager to forgive Diana for committing adultery with anyone in general, than Charles committing adultery with Camilla.
2. This feeds into number 2. People would like her more if she was more attractive and younger. Unfortunately yes. People are fickle and yes stake more on attractiveness then they care to admit.
3. She is made out to be work shy, and in many area that reads as lazy. Okay now there was a time when Camilla did more or about the same as William and Harry and they were given the benefit of the doubt, learning the role and everything.
4. People don't see her as relatable. There has been two and a current PR campaign to show the down to earth nature of the Duchess - and it simply doesn't work. I have been told by a journalist that it is her accent that is the problem and in general her body language. Her clothing choices ect.

Personally I just think the British don't see her as good enough for Charles, especially when viewed against Diana. If Camilla had been his first wife, we might be having the conversation as well.
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  #696  
Old 04-28-2021, 12:46 PM
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People who dislike Camilla need to watch more of Tracey Ullman's version of her. And I actually mean it quite respectfully!— it would fix a lot.
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  #697  
Old 04-28-2021, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
There are several reasons - and I am going to be rather blunt here.

1. She was the other woman in the relationship. People were more eager to forgive Diana for committing adultery with anyone in general, than Charles committing adultery with Camilla.
2. This feeds into number 2. People would like her more if she was more attractive and younger. Unfortunately yes. People are fickle and yes stake more on attractiveness then they care to admit.
3. She is made out to be work shy, and in many area that reads as lazy. Okay now there was a time when Camilla did more or about the same as William and Harry and they were given the benefit of the doubt, learning the role and everything.
4. People don't see her as relatable. There has been two and a current PR campaign to show the down to earth nature of the Duchess - and it simply doesn't work. I have been told by a journalist that it is her accent that is the problem and in general her body language. Her clothing choices ect.

Personally I just think the British don't see her as good enough for Charles, especially when viewed against Diana. If Camilla had been his first wife, we might be having the conversation as well.

Claire, thanks so much for your response! I would have had no idea about a problem with her accent, but I can understand the other issues some may have. Particularly how people blame the “other woman” more than the man. And as you said, looks and youth are so valued. I can see how people might feel she is not good enough for Charles .

Personally, I think that Charles looks so incredibly happy and more grounded since they’ve been married that the other things don’t bother me as much anymore as they used to. The way Diana was treated....just awful and such a mess! Charles has to live with that as well as whatever resentments William and Harry may still have. My marriage (same as many others) was not a good one but the blessing of my two children wouldn’t have happened without it. As Charles is blessed to have his sons. - with all the ups and downs that come with being a parent.
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  #698  
Old 04-28-2021, 02:59 PM
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Support for the Monarchy in the UK

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Originally Posted by Claire View Post
There are several reasons - and I am going to be rather blunt here.



1. She was the other woman in the relationship. People were more eager to forgive Diana for committing adultery with anyone in general, than Charles committing adultery with Camilla.

2. This feeds into number 2. People would like her more if she was more attractive and younger. Unfortunately yes. People are fickle and yes stake more on attractiveness then they care to admit.

3. She is made out to be work shy, and in many area that reads as lazy. Okay now there was a time when Camilla did more or about the same as William and Harry and they were given the benefit of the doubt, learning the role and everything.

4. People don't see her as relatable. There has been two and a current PR campaign to show the down to earth nature of the Duchess - and it simply doesn't work. I have been told by a journalist that it is her accent that is the problem and in general her body language. Her clothing choices ect.



Personally I just think the British don't see her as good enough for Charles, especially when viewed against Diana. If Camilla had been his first wife, we might be having the conversation as well.


Thanks. This was interesting to read.

I figured the affair and looks factored in. Charles never seems to have really been forgiven either. It was over a quarter of a century ago, though I imagine The Crown hasn’t helped much; I think Philip got roasted a bit on that show too. (Maybe if Diana had lived long enough to really start a new life of her own, things would be different now in terms of perception.)

I didn’t know she is considered workshy. What she does- she seems to do well. I’m honestly impressed she was willing to take on the job at all given her age and all the hideous press she’s endured.

Hmmm- not being relatable is interesting. I wouldn’t know anything about her accent though. Her clothes seem to suit her IMO. Not sure on the body language. She’s come across as fairly down to earth to me....but I’m not British.

It never occurred to me that the public might think she’s not good enough for Charles. Interesting.
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  #699  
Old 04-28-2021, 03:39 PM
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She doesn't sound any posher than Prince Charles or Princess Anne do, or indeed the Queen, but everyone's used to them. In the Queen's younger days, everyone on the BBC had to use RP (Received Pronunciation) ... whereas Camilla didn't come on the scene until things had changed. Younger people, whatever their background, just don't talk like that any more - William and Harry sound far less "posh" than Charles does. There was a big social change regarding accents in the early 1960s, but Camilla obviously grew up before that.

There'd be an outcry if anyone said that someone wasn't relatable because they had a strong Cockney or Glaswegian or Brummie accent, but it's OK to knock someone for being posh. Poor Camilla!

And I think people still have a problem with the fact that Charles preferred an older and not particularly attractive woman to a young, beautiful, glamorous one. Which again is very unfair.

From some of the things we've heard about Prince Charles in the past - goodness knows how many of the stories about him wanting the toilet seat warmed up and the tops cut off his eggs are true, but some of them must be -, he's probably not easy to live with. Camilla's OK with all that, and she makes him happy.
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Old 04-28-2021, 03:47 PM
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I wouldn't have said that Diana's accent was less than "posh" either. Truth is that Diana was pretty and Camila isn't..
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