Succession to the Crown Act 2013, Part 1: 2011 - Sep 2022

[Pranter]

Many members of the Cof E never get confirmed, unlike the RCC church where everyone gets confirmed at about 9 or 10 years of age.

That's not quite accurate...here confirmation doesn't happen until a person is in their mid teens.


LaRae

 

[Trillian]

No, I did not say my opinion is a fact, I said I have an opinion - regarding Kate's level of commitment to the CofE - based on the fact she was only confirmed shortly before her marriage.

I was baptised and confirmed in the 12 months before I was married....how is that a comment on level of commitment? My parents, being different faiths ( 1 Protestant, the other RC) left it up to us to make our own decisions as adults. I would posit that making that decision as an adult, rather than as a 13yo (the usual age when Catechism classes are offered) , makes it a more considered and mature commitment.

 

[Kataryn]

What he is saying is the Head of the Church of England asks permission of the Head of the Catholic Church for their child/grandchild not to brought up a Catholic which is against canon law.

It has happened for centuries that Catholic princesses married protestant kings or heirs of protestant kings and stayed Catholic while their children were brought up protestant (think Bavarian princesses married to Sweden or Prussia). While it is "normal" for Catholics on marrying protestants to bring up the children as Catholics, it is not a problem to do it differently nowadays.

But I understand the worries of the CoE, but have no doubt they'll find the Catholic pope to be willing to agree to the planned changes. It's not as if the problem never existed before and was never solved....

 

[Roslyn]

I was baptised and confirmed in the 12 months before I was married....how is that a comment on level of commitment? My parents, being different faiths ( 1 Protestant, the other RC) left it up to us to make our own decisions as adults. I would posit that making that decision as an adult, rather than as a 13yo (the usual age when Catechism classes are offered) , makes it a more considered and mature commitment.

Your circumstances are quite different from Kate's. You were not marrying the anticipated future Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and she had been Christened in the usual course as a baby. In her case I find the timing of her decision to proceed with Confirmation to be very suspicious, and a perusal of the comments above will reveal that I am not the only one to think that way.

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.

 

[HRHHermione]

If there's one thing I'd love to see in a modern monarchy, it's the idea that one's personal faith is very personal, and should neither qualify nor disqualify anyone for any professional position.

I really do hope Charles becomes "Defender of Faiths" rather than "Defender of the Faith" and that it's formally acknowledged that one's private beliefs should be totally private. I personally couldn't care less about when Catherine was confirmed or about how often William and Catherine attend church. And I hope that soon, religious beliefs will not preclude two people who love each other from marrying, even of one of those people is heir to the throne.

I see the monarch as a representative of the people, and to my mind, this means that they should represent all of the people as much as possible. I know it's governed by hereditary privilege and I know there's no real answer to that- it will never be a democratic institution. However, within those confines, it should be as democratic as possible, and that means making sure that women can inherit and that men in the family can marry the person of their choice without it influencing succession rights.

 

[Trillian]

Your circumstances are quite different from Kate's. You were not marrying the anticipated future Supreme Governor of the Church of England, and she had been Christened in the usual course as a baby. In her case I find the timing of her decision to proceed with Confirmation to be very suspicious, and a perusal of the comments above will reveal that I am not the only one to think that way.

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.

Assuming the Royal Family usually takes Communion, Kate would have to be Confirmed before she could take Communion with them.

 

[Dman]

Peter Hunt‏@BBCPeterHunt
The bill which will ensure that if William and Kate's child is a girl she will be queen will be debated in the Commons on Tuesday 22nd Jan.

 

[wbenson]

BBC News - New royal succession law despite MP's Kaiser warning

If William and Kate's baby is a girl, she would be expected to become monarch ahead of any younger male siblings.
However, the MP for Louth and Horncastle Sir Peter Tapsell has warned of the dangers of breaking with centuries of tradition.
Speaking in the Commons, the Father of the House said: "But for our law of male primogeniture, the German Kaiser would have become King of England, which would have produced almost as interesting a coalition as the present one."

 

[Lumutqueen]

I seriously don't see the point in mentioning that Kaiser Wilhelm would have been King, if equal primogeniture had existed in Victoria's time. It didn't, and her eldest son Edward became King. Also there may have been some succesion issue as Victoria, The Princess Royal was married to the King of Prussia.

 

[wbenson]

And it's silly to think Victoria would have had the same life, husband, etc. had she been the heiress apparent rather than 5th in line.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Had Victoria been the heir there is no way she would have married the Crown Prince of Prussia to begin with so the argument is irrelevant.

 

[Mariel]

Duke-of-Earl, I like your comment 1006.
I have thought that William and Catherine must be somewhat religious because of the music they chose for their wedding. I realize someone else may have chosen some of the music, but they chose the motet sung during their silent prayer after they were pronounced man and wife. I am a person of faith, and I was so moved by this selection that I played it over and over, mentioned it on line, and actually my "mention" went viral for a time. Of course one could say that William and Catherine picked this religious motet, written by a music professor they met near their home, simply for its beauty rather than the sentiment of the words. The words, however, were a passionate plea for God's mercy--simply amazing and over the top, I thought, for the royals, who are presumed to be stiff-upper-lip folks.
I have no idea how they really feel about such things.

Comment on wearing crosses in C of E. I am a member of an Episcopal parish in which ever member of our Bible study, including the rector and his associate, wears a cross. I had to get out my old crusader cross, which I had hesitated to wear because of its significance, in order to be "in style." My cross is the smallest one in the group. I am thinking of getting a less combat-significant cross from James Avery Silversmiths.

 

[Iluvbertie]

Charles chose the music for William and Kate's wedding because they admitted that he knew that stuff and they didn't.

 

[Baroness of Books]

Yes, I also heard PC played a major part in the selection of the wedding music.

 

[Noble Consort Ming]

I'm a little surprised you weren't baptised as a baby though, into one or other of your parents' churches, though perhaps they are only nominal members of their religion. Whatever the case may be, I commend your parents' decision to let you make up your own mind as an adult; I think that is as it should be.

Some protestant denominations do not baptize babies. They only baptize people after a certain age when they understand what baptism is and can make the decision for themselves. And the orthodox churches give communion to babies after baptism.

Many members of the Cof E never get confirmed, unlike the RCC church where everyone gets confirmed at about 9 or 10 years of age.

I grew up catholic and you don't get confirmed till you're a teenager. At 9 or 10 you would have just made your first confession and communion(ages for this differ in different countries, younger in the US but older in my birth country of Poland).

 

[Trillian]

I grew up catholic and you don't get confirmed till you're a teenager. At 9 or 10 you would have just made your first confession and communion(ages for this differ in different countries, younger in the US but older in my birth country of Poland).

Anglicans (at least in the Anglican Church of Australia) you can't take "Communion until after Confirmation.

 

[Roslyn]

Anglicans (at least in the Anglican Church of Australia) you can't take "Communion until after Confirmation.

This seems to depend on the Diocese. In Perth children can take communion under some circumstances: First Holy Communion | Baptisms - St. Georges Cathedral Perth

 

[COESpiral]

Some protestant denominations do not baptize babies. They only baptize people after a certain age when they understand what baptism is and can make the decision for themselves. And the orthodox churches give communion to babies after baptism.

This is how my denomination does things. We have Baby Dedications once a year; a ceremony of sorts where the congregation would pray for the child and for his/her parent(s) for God's wisdom and guidance. But baptism is reserved for when they understand what it is and what it represents. Then it's up to the person themselves if they wish to be baptized.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The rule in the Anglican Church in Australia used to be 'no communion until after confirmation' and then in the mid-90s it started to change with different diocese allowing pre-confirmed children to take communion (I was a member of the synod in Sydney at the time of the vote). My local minister was totally opposed to it. Generally speaking most Anglicans don't take communion until after confirmation - because that is what their parents did so they don't advocate the new approach.

Baptism is very much something that the RC promoted in the dark and middle ages when there was a very high mortality rate in infants but by the time of the reformation that rate had dropped somewhat (no where near today's levels of course but it was dropping). Confirmation is simply a person agreeing to take on the vows that were made for it at baptism anyway - 'confirming the vows' and so if a denomination or culture doesn't do infant baptism but does adult baptism when the person is old enough to make that decision for themselves there is no need for a separate confirmation ceremony.

 

[Dman]

Royal Central‏@RoyalCentralUK
BREAKING NEWS: Tomorrow, legislation to end male preference primogeniture in the royal succession will begin its journey through Parliament.

Where to watch:
http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Main/Live.aspx

 

[royalistbert]

Now it's journey begins.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I wonder how long it will take - weeks or years given that it has to pass more than just one parliament.

 

[Roslyn]

Yes, it will be interesting to see how long it takes to finalise the changes. If parliaments want to get legislation passed they can barrel it through with unseemly speed, or it can go back and forth between committees for ages. Time will tell.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The British parliament, I believe intends on getting it through in a matter of weeks but that is just the first parliament that has to pass it.

If the baby is a boy I can even see some of the other realms delaying for quite some time - no urgency.

 

[Roslyn]

If the baby is a boy I can even see some of the other realms delaying for quite some time - no urgency.

This is why I sincerely hope the child is a girl. If it's a boy it will be put on the back-burner and may never get done.

 

[MarleneKoenig]

Some protestant denominations do not baptize babies. They only baptize people after a certain age when they understand what baptism is and can make the decision for themselves. And the orthodox churches give communion to babies after baptism.

I think people use the word Protestant too loosely. The only Protestant churches are those churches that grew out of the Reformation, as in protest. There are some Christian churches, such as several Baptist, denominations that do not baptize babies.

 

[Mariel]

If the Cambridge baby is a girl, and if the parliaments have not settled the question yet, then the big question will be this: will Kate and William then have a boy who precedes the first born girl? If they have another girl, same situation as E-beth and Margaret, if the Cambridges hold to their two-child plans.
Sort of seems like a game of chess. So I see why Roslyn hopes it will be a boy. Of course this child will not become monarch for perhaps 50 years, so when thinking about names think of ones that go well with Princess and Prince. We will mostly all be gone to our reward before the child becomes monarch, unless crazy circumstances emerge, which has happened. Prince William of Gloucester passing on at 30 changed that family dramatically, losing charismatic Prince William of G. and gaining the steady calm Richard of Gloucester, his great wife Birgitta, and their three interesting children. The unexpected can be scary but fascinating.

 

[Roslyn]

So I see why Roslyn hopes it will be a boy.

Roslyn hopes it will be a girl.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The law will be passed - but the fact remains that for the other realms if the first child is a boy they will put it on the back burner.

It isn't all that urgent anyway and in 50 years or so the British population will possibly be even a majority Muslim country meaning that a woman probably wouldn't be acceptable anyway.

 

[VictoriaB]

It isn't all that urgent anyway and in 50 years or so the British population will possibly be even a majority Muslim country meaning that a woman probably wouldn't be acceptable anyway.

Benazir Bhutto was elected President of Pakistan and that is a Muslim country.