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  #861  
Old 05-12-2021, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I found that side table with a bric-ā-brac cloth over it an ugly setting. I understand the Consort's throne is removed (although the Prince of Wales has seated on it) but I would have shoved the Queen's throne centre stage instead of that ugly granny"s bedside table in "Philip's place".
Apparently, the round table with the red and gold embroidered cloth was used so that The Queen's speech in cream booklet (hard paper copy) form could be placed on top of it. This was done because of COVID-19 restriction, otherwise the Lord Chancellor, Robert Buckland (Conservative MP for South Swindon), would normally hand the (hard copy) speech directly to The Queen and the table would probably not be required. Personally, I don't mind the table, but it could have been placed on The Queen's right hand side (the same side as The Imperial State Crown) rather than the left, so that it does not "replace" the sovereign's consort throne.

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As well as the eerily almost-vacant Lords, there were other amendments to keep the Queen and others safe from coronavirus.

The cream booklet containing the speech had been placed on a table draped in a red velvet and embroidered gold covering, next to the monarch’s throne.

In non-Covid times, the Lord Chancellor Robert Buckland would have handed the speech directly to the sovereign.
Changed State Opening of Parliament for widowed Queen
The monarch delivered the Queen’s Speech in her first major public ceremonial duty since Philip’s death.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/q...h-b934485.html

Picture of The Queen sitting at the throne with the round table next to it: https://static.standard.co.uk/2021/0...3A3351%2Csmart

Robert Buckland has tweeted out a picture of himself standing (head down) in front of The Queen sitting at the throne of House of Lords.
Robert Buckland @RobertBuckland
It was an honour to invite, in a socially distanced way, The Queen to read her Speech at the State Opening of Parliament this morning #HousesofParliament #StateOpening2021
7:19 AM ˇ May 12, 2021ˇTwitter for iPhone
https://twitter.com/RobertBuckland/s...27979074457609
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  #862  
Old 05-12-2021, 06:28 AM
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What i also noticed is that on the side where Charles and Camilly have been seated yesterday they have put another red carpet over the red/golden carpet which covers the steps and place before the Throne. This wasn't done previously.
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  #863  
Old 05-12-2021, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by W.Y.CII View Post
Just wondering would it be the begining of a new protocol, no tiara and gown or military uniform in future. Maybe it's only because of the pandemic and the Queen's age this time, but sometimes an exception reshapes the tradition.

I don't think it is reasonable to demand that the Queen dress in full regalia at her old age. Honestly, I am afraid she might hurt herself if she has to wear the Imperial State Crown again during her Throne Speech.
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  #864  
Old 05-12-2021, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don't think it is reasonable to demand that the Queen dress in full regalia at her old age. Honestly, I am afraid she might hurt herself if she has to wear the Imperial State Crown again during her Throne Speech.
I was thinking the same thing.
The State Crown is supposedly quite heavy, and I imagine the robes are too.
The Queen is looking quite fragile lately; it might be a struggle for her to wear them.
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  #865  
Old 05-12-2021, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I was thinking the same thing.
The State Crown is supposedly quite heavy, and I imagine the robes are too.
The Queen is looking quite fragile lately; it might be a struggle for her to wear them.
it is very heavy, I dont think she's up to wearing it now. I think that there's room for a simpler ceremoney, and certainly the queen has earned the right to take things a bit easier....
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  #866  
Old 05-12-2021, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I don't think it is reasonable to demand that the Queen dress in full regalia at her old age. Honestly, I am afraid she might hurt herself if she has to wear the Imperial State Crown again during her Throne Speech.
Things adjust because of her age, isn't that what I wrote in my reply?

I am saying would the "exception" of day time wear and also the George IV diadem in recent years become the turning point, which we wouldn't see full regalia in all future state opening of parliament (Charles and William and future reign).
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  #867  
Old 05-12-2021, 11:12 AM
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The Queen has stopped wearing the heavy crown some years ago. I don't know exactly in which year that change was made, but in 2019 she wore the State Diadem during the whole ceremony while the Crown was displayed separately. But I can imagine that they will not return to the old dress code after two years of this scaled down State Openings with day dress. And that probably means that Charles will keep the dressed down version under his reign. I really can't see him to revert to the full pomp and splendor if Elizabeth doesn't.
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  #868  
Old 05-12-2021, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
The Queen has stopped wearing the heavy crown some years ago. I don't know exactly in which year that change was made, but in 2019 she wore the State Diadem during the whole ceremony while the Crown was displayed separately. But I can imagine that they will not return to the old dress code after two years of this scaled down State Openings with day dress. And that probably means that Charles will keep the dressed down version under his reign. I really can't see him to revert to the full pomp and splendor if Elizabeth doesn't.
Maybe they can do the Dutch 'in-between' version; no robes etc but still a very formal event and specific dresscode (although they could change the hat for a crown or tiara if they so wish).
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  #869  
Old 05-12-2021, 02:46 PM
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Maybe they can do the Dutch 'in-between' version; no robes etc but still a very formal event and specific dresscode (although they could change the hat for a crown or tiara if they so wish).
I think it would be very sad if they stop wearing crowns and robes etc. Can you imagine how stunning William and Kate would be sitting on those thrones in their crowns? If your going to have Kings and Queens then I want them to look like Kings and Queens LOL! The British royals are the only royal family who have kept this part of royal tradition going and I hope that post Covid HM will at least attend in evening dress and tiara in the same way she does for a State banquet.
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  #870  
Old 05-12-2021, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tilia C. View Post
The Queen has stopped wearing the heavy crown some years ago. I don't know exactly in which year that change was made, but in 2019 she wore the State Diadem during the whole ceremony while the Crown was displayed separately. But I can imagine that they will not return to the old dress code after two years of this scaled down State Openings with day dress. And that probably means that Charles will keep the dressed down version under his reign. I really can't see him to revert to the full pomp and splendor if Elizabeth doesn't.

It was in 2019 when she changed from the Imperial State Crown to the George IV. Circlet which she last wore in 2016. In 2017 there was the "Dressed down" opening after the snap elections and in 2018 there was none. I certainly hope they will go back to the full Opening with Pomp and all.
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  #871  
Old 05-12-2021, 03:06 PM
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It is hard to tell what the "normal" now is really as there have been numerous reasons for the 'dressed down' State Openings we've seen. I hope that the 'new normal' is HM in the stunning diamond Diadem of George IV and still in full robes etc but I'm not 100% sure it will be.
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  #872  
Old 05-12-2021, 03:39 PM
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If the Queen sticks to the day-dress code, I think the Lords should forgo their robes as well.
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  #873  
Old 05-12-2021, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
I think it would be very sad if they stop wearing crowns and robes etc. Can you imagine how stunning William and Kate would be sitting on those thrones in their crowns? If your going to have Kings and Queens then I want them to look like Kings and Queens LOL! The British royals are the only royal family who have kept this part of royal tradition going and I hope that post Covid HM will at least attend in evening dress and tiara in the same way she does for a State banquet.
Personally I find a head of state, seated on a golden throne, wearing ermine fur while balancing a wobbling crown with an overload of diamonds extremely out of touch. Imagine Charles in 2030 or William in 2050 with glittering diamonds on their head.

Especially when this pompously dressed head of state, speaking of "My Government", announces draconic cuts or tax hikes while the Cullinan II glitters above their forehead.

No, having the Imperial State Crown on a pedestal as a symbol of the kingship (like the mace in the two Houses of Parliament) suits better with a modern monarchy 3.0, is my personal opinion. In Sweden the ermine was not worn but draped on the throne, that is also an option which would be an improvement in my eyes.

See: https://www.kungahuset.se/images/18....-janson-TT.jpg
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  #874  
Old 05-12-2021, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
I think it would be very sad if they stop wearing crowns and robes etc. Can you imagine how stunning William and Kate would be sitting on those thrones in their crowns? If your going to have Kings and Queens then I want them to look like Kings and Queens LOL! The British royals are the only royal family who have kept this part of royal tradition going and I hope that post Covid HM will at least attend in evening dress and tiara in the same way she does for a State banquet.
It would be nice if they did. However, if they (primarily Charles) feel that after several years of day dress they need some in-between alternative, the Dutch royals would be the best example to look at.

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Originally Posted by Minister of Court View Post
If the Queen sticks to the day-dress code, I think the Lords should forgo their robes as well.
However, I hadn't thought about the robes for the Lords... In that case it makes even more sense to continue the British royal tradition.

Nonetheless, if at some point it is felt that they would want to tone it down a bit; they only have to look to their neighbors at the other side of the North Sea (both the royals and the lords).
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  #875  
Old 05-12-2021, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Personally I find a head of state, seated on a golden throne, wearing ermine fur while balancing a wobbling crown with an overload of diamonds extremely out of touch. Imagine Charles in 2030 or William in 2050 with glittering diamonds on their head.

Especially when this pompously dressed head of state, speaking of "My Government", announces draconic cuts or tax hikes while the Cullinan II glitters above their forehead.

No, having the Imperial State Crown on a pedestal as a symbol of the kingship (like the mace in the two Houses of Parliament) suits better with a modern monarchy 3.0, is my personal opinion. In Sweden the ermine was not worn but draped on the throne, that is also an option which would be an improvement in my eyes.

See: https://www.kungahuset.se/images/18....-janson-TT.jpg
The 'my government' indeed stands out.

And you might be right that the crown on a male monarch such as Charles and William might result in different reactions of the public than this, now, elder lady who has served faithfully for so many decades as their queen.

For the coronation, yes, for the yearly State Opening of Parliament, they might want to reconsider.
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  #876  
Old 05-12-2021, 04:51 PM
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The 'my government' indeed stands out.

And you might be right that the crown on a male monarch such as Charles and William might result in different reactions of the public than this, now, elder lady who has served faithfully for so many decades as their queen.

For the coronation, yes, for the yearly State Opening of Parliament, they might want to reconsider.
When I saw my own King dressed in ermine, I also thought: this is so out of touch.
In February 2013 I had sent the picture of Sweden with an ermine mantle draped on the throne to the Cabinet of the King. Their response was one of gratitude for my constructive idea and they have noted it.

But on April 30th 2013 sadly the King wore the skin of hundreds of dead ermines over his shoulders. I feel that with Charles, William (and my own Catharina-Amalia) the wearing of metres of fur by the head of state will become an issue anyway as people become less servile and more assertive and aware.
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  #877  
Old 05-12-2021, 04:51 PM
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I dont see that it matters if the crown is the symbol of authority, whether its worn or just sits there.
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  #878  
Old 05-12-2021, 04:58 PM
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I dont see that it matters if the crown is the symbol of authority, whether its worn or just sits there.
Do you think it suits Charles, William or George to have a whopping crown on their balding heads? Already on George VI my idea was that felt himself trapped, he did not look quite comfortable with that thing on his head.

With the abandonment of the papal coronation, the British Kings are the only ones in Europe still wearing kilograms of metal and stones on their head.

The current situation, with the Imperial State Crown carried in front of the Sovereign, suits modern times, I think.
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  #879  
Old 05-12-2021, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Do you think it suits Charles, William or George to have a whopping crown on their balding heads? Already on George VI my idea was that felt himself trapped, he did not look quite comfortable with that thing on his head.

With the abandonment of the papal coronation, the British Kings are the only ones in Europe still wearing kilograms of metal and stones on their head.

The current situation, with the Imperial State Crown carried in front of the Sovereign, suits modern times, I think.
I think its up to them and to the British public whether they maintain traditions, give them up or have a mixture between the 2
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  #880  
Old 05-12-2021, 05:20 PM
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I find it odd that some people think it archaic and out of touch for the monarch to wear a crown but are ok with the the idea of a monarchy in the first place. Those who think a hereditary monarchy is past it's sell by date won't stop thinking it simply because the King or Queen concerned stops wearing the crown jewels.
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