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  #1281  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc et Pair
I am a royalist but that does not mean all arguments "they bring billions in" or "they bring a positive vibe to UK Ltd" have any connection with truth.
Right, so here are more specifics that provide more verifiable specifics:

https://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/...11363982445194

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...y-2571849.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/megh...economy-2018-1

http://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/m...11364067030820
“While the value of the UK economy was put at nearly £57 billion in 2015 (vs the Windsor family's 2015 budget of £35.7 million), Brand Finance estimated that their net contribution to the UK economy for the same period was actually just £1.115 billion. This hardly insignificant figure is worked out after costs such as the Sovereign Grant, security, and upkeep of palaces is taken away… But regardless of whether it's gross or net income, it can't be denied that the royals definitely contribute to the UK economy in more ways than one. The two biggest ways are fairly obvious: Royal Tourism, and The Effect [of the Younger Royals, now including the Cambridges and the Sussexes].”

The current net contribution of the Windsor family to the UK economy has likely increased, especially over the past couple of years.
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  #1282  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:19 AM
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Capitalism vs. Royalty

In Capitalism everything is counted in money, even the value of a royal family.

Personally I think, this way of valueing a royal family is completly useless!

An example: The Danish Royal Family goes back to King Bluetooth, who was in his time rumoured, to be a descendent of the God Odin. So, they were always there, all the way back to the time of the Sagas.

Is that not an assuring thing? It went on and on and on! And god willing it will go on and on and on.

I think, this is the value of royal family: the continuity.

The British Royal Family goes far back too!
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  #1283  
Old 05-12-2019, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
Right, so here are more specifics that provide more verifiable specifics:

https://home.bt.com/lifestyle/money/...11363982445194

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/bu...y-2571849.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/megh...economy-2018-1

How the Queen and the royal family boost the UK economy - BT
“While the value of the UK economy was put at nearly £57 billion in 2015 (vs the Windsor family's 2015 budget of £35.7 million), Brand Finance estimated that their net contribution to the UK economy for the same period was actually just £1.115 billion. This hardly insignificant figure is worked out after costs such as the Sovereign Grant, security, and upkeep of palaces is taken away… But regardless of whether it's gross or net income, it can't be denied that the royals definitely contribute to the UK economy in more ways than one. The two biggest ways are fairly obvious: Royal Tourism, and The Effect [of the Younger Royals, now including the Cambridges and the Sussexes].”

The current net contribution of the Windsor family to the UK economy has likely increased, especially over the past couple of years.



Just look to Germany, Austria, Finland, Switzerland, etc. and the question pops up where their royal families are which boost their amazing economic performance?

Just look to France, the world's tourist-magnet Number One, and the question pops up where the French royal family is which causes that French tourism dwarfs British tourism?

I think the choice for a monarchy is a case of the heart rather than a case of money. Because the economic arguments are rather poor. Will London really get less tourists when Buckingham Palace has been turned into a museum by lack of a monarch? Does Berlin suffer a shortage in tourists since they have exiled their Emperor?
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  #1284  
Old 05-12-2019, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
...I think the choice for a monarchy is a case of the heart rather than a case of money. Because the economic arguments are rather poor.
I'm not sure the economic arguments are uniformly 'poor.' However, I agree with you that the British monarchy involves the heart, nostalgia, sentimentality, and a reverence for tradition and continuity, held by some members of the public more than others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Will London really get less tourists when Buckingham Palace has been turned into a museum by lack of a monarch? Does Berlin suffer a shortage in tourists since they have exiled their Emperor?
Ah, in the case of the British monarchy, we may yet soon find out. As I've said, either way, the Windsors will not be adversely affected. They will simply be able to forego all of the government demands on their lives, and have more time to pursue private passions and to work on causes and/or careers that are important to them.

The government most likely will still have to find a way to cover a portion of certain royals' security costs, and arrangements will be negotiated regarding disposition and management of palaces and property belonging to the Crown Estate. Probably most of the royals will breathe a huge sigh of relief and do their best to fade from public view. They are independently wealthy.

Those royals who are engaged in substantial work on behalf of humanitarian and community projects and patronages, will also surely continue with many of their endeavors. But hopefully, certain aspects of overdone public pressure and public scrutiny will begin to cease.

Unfortunately, I'm sure the tabloids and reporters will not cease pursuing the royals and creating stories about their lives.
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  #1285  
Old 05-12-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
I'm not sure the economic arguments are uniformly 'poor.' However, I agree with you that the British monarchy involves the heart, nostalgia, sentimentality, and a reverence for tradition and continuity, held by some members of the public more than others.



Ah, in the case of the British monarchy, we may yet soon find out. As I've said, either way, the Windsors will not be adversely affected. They will simply be able to forego all of the government demands on their lives, and have more time to pursue private passions and to work on causes and/or careers that are important to them.

The government most likely will still have to find a way to cover a portion of certain royals' security costs, and arrangements will be negotiated regarding disposition and management of palaces and property belonging to the Crown Estate. Probably most of the royals will breathe a huge sigh of relief and do their best to fade from public view. They are independently wealthy.

Those royals who are engaged in substantial work on behalf of humanitarian and community projects and patronages, will also surely continue with many of their endeavors. But hopefully, certain aspects of overdone public pressure and public scrutiny will begin to cease.

Unfortunately, I'm sure the tabloids and reporters will not cease pursuing the royals and creating stories about their lives.
Why would the royals be happy to fade in the background when their role is to be public figures?
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  #1286  
Old 05-12-2019, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post

The government most likely will still have to find a way to cover a portion of certain royals' security costs,
If the monarchy was eliminated in Britain, odds are slim that the government would continue to fund any security for them. They would be private citizens.
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  #1287  
Old 05-12-2019, 09:14 PM
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Its a mighty string of dominoes that would fall like the stones of Stonehenge if and when the British monarchy ceases to be. The government not paying for security for the royals would be the least of their problems, IMO.

Charles and Camilla could move to Italy where Charles could paint to his heart's content. Likewise so could the other members of the royal family. The government would have to negotiate with the the monarch just how to work it out with the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate is defined as "The Crown Estate is a collection of lands and holdings in the United Kingdom belonging to the British monarch as a corporation sole, making it the "Sovereign's public estate", which is neither government property nor part of the monarch's private estate.

Then there is the Royal Collection that would have to be dealt with. The Queen owns some of the collection in right of the Crown and some as a private individual. So much of what is contained within that Collection is deemed priceless and reflects so much British history.

Between the Crown Estate and the Royal Collection, its possible that the government could go broke just being able to retain a huge chunk of what is known and loved as British history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Why would the royals be happy to fade in the background when their role is to be public figures?
Perhaps because those public roles have been expected of them from birth perhaps and not their own personal choices as a career and lifestyle? I've dug up an article you may find interesting dating back a few years when Harry talks to Newsweek about this particular subject pretty openly. It helps to see their roles and duties from their own perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nts-king-queen
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  #1288  
Old 05-12-2019, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Its a mighty string of dominoes that would fall like the stones of Stonehenge if and when the British monarchy ceases to be. The government not paying for security for the royals would be the least of their problems, IMO.

Charles and Camilla could move to Italy where Charles could paint to his heart's content. Likewise so could the other members of the royal family. The government would have to negotiate with the the monarch just how to work it out with the Crown Estate. The Crown Estate is defined as "The Crown Estate is a collection of lands and holdings in the United Kingdom belonging to the British monarch as a corporation sole, making it the "Sovereign's public estate", which is neither government property nor part of the monarch's private estate.

Then there is the Royal Collection that would have to be dealt with. The Queen owns some of the collection in right of the Crown and some as a private individual. So much of what is contained within that Collection is deemed priceless and reflects so much British history.

Between the Crown Estate and the Royal Collection, its possible that the government could go broke just being able to retain a huge chunk of what is known and loved as British history.



Perhaps because those public roles have been expected of them from birth perhaps and not their own personal choices as a career and lifestyle? I've dug up an article you may find interesting dating back a few years when Harry talks to Newsweek about this particular subject pretty openly. It helps to see their roles and duties from their own perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nts-king-queen
Sorry but who cares if it has been expected of them from birth. I think their roles are unique and they can do a lot of impact in a good way.
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  #1289  
Old 05-12-2019, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Sorry but who cares if it has been expected of them from birth. I think their roles are unique and they can do a lot of impact in a good way.
I care- because in some ways it is crummy that much of their lives is preordained.
William did good as an air ambulance pilot and liked his job, but had to give it up. If he were in Eugenie’s position rather than the future King, he could still be doing that job.
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  #1290  
Old 05-12-2019, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Sorry but who cares if it has been expected of them from birth. I think their roles are unique and they can do a lot of impact in a good way.
I would think it does matter if they care. Take the example of King Edward VIII. He turned it all down and abdicated because he loved a woman that was deemed "unsuitable" among other various reasons. In fact, that's another area where the wealth and finances come in. As monarch, King Edward VIII inherited Sandringham and Balmoral as his own personal private estates (they still are the monarch's personal private estates today). After the abdication, King George VI had to negotiate and finance buying those properties back. .

https://www.quora.com/Why-was-George...almoral-Castle.

Ever seen the movie "Dead Poet's Society"? Or know of parents that were very adamant of just how their kid's life was going to be from the moment of birth and the kid had to fall in line? Being a member of a hereditary monarchy with all its duties and roles and ins and outs is pretty much like that along with living a life in a fishbowl. Its not the fairy tale life of "happy ever after" just because of a title or castles and crown jewels. Anyways, I digress here as this is the royal wealth and finance thread.

The British royal family even should they be put out to pasture and the monarchy abolished, could very well continue with the work they're already passionate about. There just wouldn't be any court circular announcements or investitures or state banquets or Trooping the Color or any events that are associated with the monarchy. A whole lot of British traditions and continuity of the British heritage would cease to be as we know it now.

The bottom line is that it is just that not having a monarchy would drastically change a whole lot of things economically, hurt the things that seems to hold the people of the UK and the Commonwealth together in a common bond with their heritage and history and a huge sense of continuity through the centuries.

The taxpayer money would all go to politicians too. Now that's a scary thought!
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  #1291  
Old 05-13-2019, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Kitty1224 View Post
Why would the royals be happy to fade in the background when their role is to be public figures?
Well most of the family are fairly private, but privileged. The main working royals are the ones in the public eye.

What I was responding to was the suggestion that it would somehow hurt the royals if the monarchy were to end. It's not really clear how something like that would look if it happened. My main point is that I think the royals would simply just get on with their lives, and some pressure maybe would be lifted from them as well. It's not exactly that great to not have a choice of what to do with your life, which is what heirs to the throne are confronted with. William has struggled with it a bit. He would have much preferred to continue his air ambulance career as a helicopter pilot.
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  #1292  
Old 05-13-2019, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MaiaMia_53 View Post
Well most of the family are fairly private, but privileged. The main working royals are the ones in the public eye.

What I was responding to was the suggestion that it would somehow hurt the royals if the monarchy were to end. It's not really clear how something like that would look if it happened. My main point is that I think the royals would simply just get on with their lives, and some pressure maybe would be lifted from them as well. It's not exactly that great to not have a choice of what to do with your life, which is what heirs to the throne are confronted with. William has struggled with it a bit. He would have much preferred to continue his air ambulance career as a helicopter pilot.
I'm sure that some of them would be alright and have long, fruitful lives if the monarchy, God forbid, was to come to an end, but what you fail to see is that they've spent their whole lives believing in what monarchy is about, what it means and signifies to a country and it's people. This is their life and I'm sure many of them would be lost without it since a monarchy couldn't go on if those involved didn't truly believe in the benefits of it. Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden said in an interview that monarchy is something she truly believes in and we have pretenders all over Europe doing their best to keep their legacies alive. Not for their own sake, but because they see the benefits of it. Prince Philip said in a speech he made that there's no point in upholding the monarchy for its own sake, but only if it benefited the people it represents and I'd say that as long as the royals themselves believe this to be the case the fall of the monarchy would be a stab at the heart of many of them.
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  #1293  
Old 05-13-2019, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
I care- because in some ways it is crummy that much of their lives is preordained.
William did good as an air ambulance pilot and liked his job, but had to give it up. If he were in Eugenie’s position rather than the future King, he could still be doing that job.
Yes it's true. And William was happy to do that job. But I think William is going to be a good king.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
I'm sure that some of them would be alright and have long, fruitful lives if the monarchy, God forbid, was to come to an end, but what you fail to see is that they've spent their whole lives believing in what monarchy is about, what it means and signifies to a country and it's people. This is their life and I'm sure many of them would be lost without it since a monarchy couldn't go on if those involved didn't truly believe in the benefits of it. Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden said in an interview that monarchy is something she truly believes in and we have pretenders all over Europe doing their best to keep their legacies alive. Not for their own sake, but because they see the benefits of it. Prince Philip said in a speech he made that there's no point in upholding the monarchy for its own sake, but only if it benefited the people it represents and I'd say that as long as the royals themselves believe this to be the case the fall of the monarchy would be a stab at the heart of many of them.
It is true. Because they dedicate their lives to serving the monarchy and its people. And many kings and princes look upon it as a mission.
The British monarchy in particular has always reinvented itself and has found good solutions to overcome the obstacles that have come its way.
I am a royalist and I can not imagine England without the Royal Family and the Monarchy.
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  #1294  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:09 PM
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[...] I actually agree. Turning up for day-to-day events in super expensive (foreign) designer clothing doesn't sit too well and it's not something I think other royal women usually do.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-spending.html

Quote:
Veteran royal expert Jennie Bond has warned the Duchess of Sussex needs to rein in 'massively extravagant' spending as 'it doesn’t play very well' with the British public.

"The key thing about royals is to be understaed. We all know that they're royal, we all know that they're very wealthy. But the absolutely number one rule is don't rub the British people's noses in your wealth."
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  #1295  
Old 06-16-2019, 12:12 PM
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[...] I actually agree. Turning up for day-to-day events in super expensive (foreign) designer clothing doesn't sit too well and it's not something I think other royal women usually do.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-spending.html
Most BRF women, with the exception of Princess Anne, turn up to day to day engagements with expensive clothing. There are times where there are exceptions, as there has been with Meghan. But it’s not unusual.

And of course, the likes of DM is always available to inflate and double, triple, and so on, count things to make the numbers more sensational.
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  #1296  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kronprinz View Post
[...] I actually agree. Turning up for day-to-day events in super expensive (foreign) designer clothing doesn't sit too well and it's not something I think other royal women usually do.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...-spending.html

I think Jennie Bond makes some very valid points.
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  #1297  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
Most BRF women, with the exception of Princess Anne, turn up to day to day engagements with expensive clothing. There are times where there are exceptions, as there has been with Meghan. But it’s not unusual.

And of course, the likes of DM is always available to inflate and double, triple, and so on, count things to make the numbers more sensational.
Princess Anne recycles her clothing, it is not unknown for her to turn out in an outfit first worn a number of years ago. No idea what she paid for them in the first place but she does get her money's worth out of them.
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  #1298  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:41 PM
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Really? Go take a look at Sophie Wessex fashion blog. Almost every look she wears you will find high end foreign brands mixed in if not all. Gucci, channel, Tiffany, Prada.

And Kate has been adding more and more high end foreign brands as well.

Beyond Givenchy, Meghan’s foreign brands don’t tend to be the pricy high end ones. Sometimes but not the rule. She wears a lot of Canadian brands that are equivalent of high street and as Canadian is.
commonwealth it’s not foreign. Givenchy is supporting British talent.

Even Camilla has the odd foreign brand added in.
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  #1299  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:51 PM
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Even Camilla has the odd foreign brand added in.
I think "odd foreign brand added in" is the key to this argument that has been ongoing for a year now.
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  #1300  
Old 06-16-2019, 01:59 PM
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Fascinating how the rules are different for Meghan. I can’t imagine why...
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