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  #1141  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I suspect the Dutch are not badly off themselves!
It makes sense that the BRF should be one of the richer RF's in Europe. For a long time Britian was free of major wars invasions or anyting like rebellion or Revolution. The Monarchy was stable and had time to build up a large fortune, in land and investments. Even in the 20th C when the country as a whole suffered through 2 world wars, they still weren't invaded and did not have any serious unrest and the RF was able to protect its fortunes...
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  #1142  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:30 AM
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What you say is true, Denville, but I do think we need to remember that a lot of the wealth of the BRF isn't personal wealth although they're probably not searching through couch cushions in order to afford a Big Mac. We'll never really know what their personal bank accounts look like.
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  #1143  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
It makes sense that the BRF should be one of the richer RF's in Europe. For a long time Britian was free of major wars invasions or anyting like rebellion or Revolution. The Monarchy was stable and had time to build up a large fortune, in land and investments. Even in the 20th C when the country as a whole suffered through 2 world wars, they still weren't invaded and did not have any serious unrest and the RF was able to protect its fortunes...
Likewise the Dutch. When the Netherlands were occupied, the Dutch Queen still was reigning over 100 million "subjects" in the East and the West. All major Dutch industries tranferred the headquartes, the ownership rights, the patents, the capital to the Netherlands Antilles. The gold was transferred to the UK, Canada, the USA,. Look at all the palaces, the artworks, the carriages, the jewels, the palace inventories... All survived WWII. But I agree with your assessment: the BRF will be one of the richest in Europe. Maybe the Liechtenstein princely family comes close.

Note that the accession of Queen Victoria, her fruitful marriage, the abdication of Edward VIII were not helpful to the private wealth of the Sovereign. Queen Victoria practically had no jewels as the best and most historic ones went to Hannover, to name an example. So she had to start over newly, so to say.
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  #1144  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
What you say is true, Denville, but I do think we need to remember that a lot of the wealth of the BRF isn't personal wealth although they're probably not searching through couch cushions in order to afford a Big Mac. We'll never really know what their personal bank accounts look like.
True but they have also had time to build up their private wealth, had a long time when the queen didn't pay income tax etc. I think we can guess that they have a good store of private wealth and if they ahd to give up being the RF, they would live very comfortably on their own money....
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  #1145  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
True but they have also had time to build up their private wealth, had a long time when the queen didn't pay income tax etc. I think we can guess that they have a good store of private wealth and if they ahd to give up being the RF, they would live very comfortably on their own money....
Oh I don't doubt it one bit. One just has to look at Charles and how shrewd of a businessman he is for the Duchy of Cornwall. In bolstering the Duchy, he also ensures that its prosperous for future Dukes of Cornwall.

History is full of aristocrats and nobles that burnt through the family fortunes and the BRF was not one of them.
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  #1146  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Oh I don't doubt it one bit. One just has to look at Charles and how shrewd of a businessman he is for the Duchy of Cornwall. In bolstering the Duchy, he also ensures that its prosperous for future Dukes of Cornwall.

History is full of aristocrats and nobles that burnt through the family fortunes and the BRF was not one of them.
But the Prince of Wales (The Duke of Cornwall) does not own any snippet of the Duchy. It provides him a good lifestyle but du moment he is no longer the Duke of Cornwall, that source of income ends for him. Yes, Charles was and is successful in building up the Duchy. But it is the Duchy which owns it, not Charles Mountbatten-Windsor.
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  #1147  
Old 04-08-2018, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Oh I don't doubt it one bit. One just has to look at Charles and how shrewd of a businessman he is for the Duchy of Cornwall. In bolstering the Duchy, he also ensures that its prosperous for future Dukes of Cornwall.

History is full of aristocrats and nobles that burnt through the family fortunes and the BRF was not one of them.
George IV was pretty terrible... but by and large, the BRF have been lucky. They have had stability.. and quite a few shrewd busness heads among them....
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  #1148  
Old 04-08-2018, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
But the Prince of Wales (The Duke of Cornwall) does not own any snippet of the Duchy. It provides him a good lifestyle but du moment he is no longer the Duke of Cornwall, that source of income ends for him. Yes, Charles was and is successful in building up the Duchy. But it is the Duchy which owns it, not Charles Mountbatten-Windsor.
Exactly. Charles could have easily led the easy life and gone through the personal income from the Duchy if he had wanted to and never gave a thought to anything but his lifestyle. Instead, he's defined the role of Prince of Wales and actually worked for the Duchy of Cornwall to ensure that it remains healthy for generations to come.

Even his pet passion of Highgrove and its gardens are Duchy owned.
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  #1149  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:17 AM
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To avoid the need to pay inheritance tax, is the Queen likely to leave her entire estate to Charles, meaning that she has already made any intended financial bequests to the rest of her family?
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  #1150  
Old 05-16-2018, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
To avoid the need to pay inheritance tax, is the Queen likely to leave her entire estate to Charles, meaning that she has already made any intended financial bequests to the rest of her family?
It's possible. I think Princess Margaret gave much of her wealth to her children in the late 80s and early 90s for that reason. It became known before her death, as her son sold much of what he was given.
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  #1151  
Old 05-16-2018, 09:41 PM
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Every year The Sunday Times publishes The Rich List - 1000 richest people in the UK.

HMQ is = # 344 with est £370m. This is made up mainly of her private properties (Balmoral Estate and Sandringham Estate); share portfolio; her grandfathers stamp collection (said to be worth c.£30m) and other bits and bobs I can't recall.

No other member of the Royal Family is listed.

To get on the list this year, £115m was the entry level

They pay income tax on the earnings from their investments only. Sovereign to Sovereign is free of inheritance tax. Trusts are set up in advance so as to avoid any tax implications to the beneficiaries (7 years I think is the limit). William and Harry had to pay inheritance tax (40%) because Diana died so soon.
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  #1152  
Old 05-16-2018, 11:43 PM
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I wonder what will happen to any private wealth Prince Philip has accumulated. Possibly spread between Anne, Andrew and Edward, and his Duke of Edinborough award scheme perhaps.
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  #1153  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:08 AM
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Anything Philip leaves will be liable for death duties in the same way as any other person - unless he has already put it into a trust at least 7 years prior to his death, as the Queen Mother did.

Only monarch to monarch (or crowned consort to monarch) inheritance is free of death duties.

Anything the Queen leaves Charles will be free of death duties. Anything she leaves anyone else will be subject to death duties. As Philip is a crowned consort or the monarch anything he leaves to anyone will have to pay death duties at 40%.
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  #1154  
Old 05-17-2018, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
To avoid the need to pay inheritance tax, is the Queen likely to leave her entire estate to Charles, meaning that she has already made any intended financial bequests to the rest of her family?
She is a very canny lady and any trusts, etc, that she wanted to create would have been created years ago. The balance of the estate will go to Charles in a direct Monarch to Monarch transfer just as her own Father did and later her Mother's estate.

QEQM's estate covered a lot of art, objets d'art and jewellery because while there is a lot of art, objets d'art and jewellery in the Royal Collection for use by the Crown, such as Queen Adelaide's Fringe Tiara which can only be worn by the Queen or the Queen Consort. There is a vast amount of historic jewellery which remains in the family Private Collection and was not lost to the main royal line, such as the Grand Duchess Vladimir diamond tiara with pearl or emerald drops.

I laughed when I read that all of Camilla's jewellery will go to King William because of course that is not true. Those items, such as the Bucheron Tiara, belonging to the private collection will be returned while all of her private jewellery, such as her luscious pearl choker collection will go where she wants it to go for no other reason than it is hers to give, as indeed is her own tiara.

Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother learnt from Queen Mary what happens when you give away historic art, objets d'art and jewellery to all your children. Given time, it ends on the auction block just as much of Princess Margaret's collection did.

To prevent such things happening again, the Cambridge Lovers Knot Tiara was on a life loan to Diana along with many other pieces. They were returned to the vaults and therefore not lost to the family.
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  #1155  
Old 05-17-2018, 01:16 AM
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I really love the way the BRF does that with their jewelry and wish all royal houses did the same for then it would not be lost to the unknown vaults of the rich and famous never to be seen again.

Think of all the royal jewels lost in Russia, France, Italy and so forth never to be seen again......and not just jewels either for there are wonderful arts out there lost in time....history gone and most will never be found again!
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  #1156  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:09 AM
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Would Philip have huge amounts of money to leave, though? Books, paintings, gifts over the years, but money? He certainly wouldn't have received very much from his mother's estate, and his father left virtually nothing. Philip would have some savings from his official allowance over the years I suppose, but not a great deal.
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  #1157  
Old 05-17-2018, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by M. Payton View Post
I really love the way the BRF does that with their jewelry and wish all royal houses did the same for then it would not be lost to the unknown vaults of the rich and famous never to be seen again.

Think of all the royal jewels lost in Russia, France, Italy and so forth never to be seen again......and not just jewels either for there are wonderful arts out there lost in time....history gone and most will never be found again!
I am not sure what you mean with "I love the way the BRF does that with jewelry" because a lot of jewels have disappeared. For an example the sapphire coronet of Princess Mary (sold by the Harewoods), the Poltimore diadem of Princess Margaret (sold by the Snowdons), the sapphire diadem of Princess Marina (sold by the Kents), etc.

The Royal Houses which have really protected their jewels (and so much more) for sale are the Swedish and the Dutch Royal Houses. What have they done? They donated all properties which are "subservient to the execution of the royal dignity" to a non-natural person, a Foundation. Such a foundation is no subject to inheritance taxes and rules. The statutes of these foundations place all said properties at the disposal of the Head of the House.

Thát is truly protecting royal patrimonium. The late Queen Elizabeth just arranged that her only surviving daughter inherited her whole estate. Including the Greville bequest. That is all. In theory Queen Elizabeth or her heirs can still sell off QEQM's jewels if they want.
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  #1158  
Old 05-27-2018, 11:49 AM
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If William becomes the Duke of Cornwall upon Charles's reign, will he be required to pay for Harry/Meghan/Sussex children like Charles does now?
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  #1159  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:03 PM
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I would imagine that if William was the Duke of Cornwall, his father would also be King and like HM, The Queen now, would support his family members from the Duchy of Lancaster while William, as Duke of Cornwall, would then support his own family (and their eventual spouses).
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  #1160  
Old 05-27-2018, 02:25 PM
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Correct.

The monarch uses the Duchy of Lancaster to support all working royals and their immediate families while they are children other than the Duke of Cornwall and his immediate family.

As King therefore Charles will continue to support Harry and his family - but also Andrew, Edward, Anne, Richard, Edward of Kent and Alexandra. William will only have to support his own immediate family until they marry and have children of their own in Charles' reign.

That is a major reason why Charles wants to reduce the size of the working royal family - to cut down the cost to the Duchy of Lancaster of the number of royals it has to support.
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