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  #301  
Old 05-02-2021, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
I don't agree.

Look at it from a nationalist point of view.
This is our ship!
A British ship!
Build by Britons in a British shipyard!
Sailing around representing Britain with the finest of what Britain can do.
Yeah!! Rule Britannia...

There is another floating British symbol, the air craft carrier Queen Elizabeth, but she is mainly at sea somewhere, or behind fences in a navy base.
This ship will be seen all over the world, connected with members of the BRF and get a lot of focus.

It depends on how you sell it.
And if it means work for several thousand builders, designers, craftsmen, suppliers.

Keep in mind that the Eiffel Tower was supposed to have been dismantled, but who would dream about suggesting that now?
The Eiffel tower was not built during a global pandemic costing millions of lives and jobs across the Globe.

The man of the street doesn't care about prestige right now. He's just worried about his life, his family and his job.

This soon to be decision is so out of touch it's laughable.
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  #302  
Old 05-02-2021, 02:31 PM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
The Eiffel tower was not built during a global pandemic costing millions of lives and jobs across the Globe.

The man of the street doesn't care about prestige right now. He's just worried about his life, his family and his job.

This soon to be decision is so out of touch it's laughable.
No, but as you have no doubt read, there are going to be huge investments worldwide in not least infrastructure but also other fields, in order to kickstart the economy both locally and globally.
It depends on how you sell it.

A royal yacht build in Britain, will employ thousands of people.
She will need a permanent British crew. - No cheap foreign sailors.
She will need running maintenance all her life, also in Britain.
She will remain in British hands and thus remain a British symbol.
- It all depends on how you sell it.

You can easily present a case against pretty much anything, as too costly and really not necessary, but that means no one will be employed.

I deliberately used the example of the Eiffel Tower, because it was a (not that costly actually) highly visible symbol of what French builders, engineers, constructors and manufacturers could do at the time. With hyper-modern materials.
Just like the Crystal Palace.
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  #303  
Old 05-02-2021, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
No, but as you have no doubt read, there are going to be huge investments worldwide in not least infrastructure but also other fields, in order to kickstart the economy both locally and globally.
It depends on how you sell it.

A royal yacht build in Britain, will employ thousands of people.
She will need a permanent British crew. - No cheap foreign sailors.
She will need running maintenance all her life, also in Britain.
She will remain in British hands and thus remain a British symbol.
- It all depends on how you sell it.

You can easily present a case against pretty much anything, as too costly and really not necessary, but that means no one will be employed.

I deliberately used the example of the Eiffel Tower, because it was a (not that costly actually) highly visible symbol of what French builders, engineers, constructors and manufacturers could do at the time. With hyper-modern materials.
Just like the Crystal Palace.
Sadly, nowadays, the vast majority of people don't see the investment long term but the costly extravaganza short term. I've seen some reactions on social medias about the Telegraph article and they were, not suprisingly, pretty much all negative.

Again the project itself is not bad, not bad at all, and i, personally, agree on all your points. Still timing is everything and i do think the timing is pretty bad to annouce such a thing.
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  #304  
Old 05-02-2021, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Sadly, nowadays, the vast majority of people don't see the investment long term but the costly extravaganza short term. I've seen some reactions on social medias about the Telegraph article and they were, not suprisingly, pretty much all negative.

Again the project itself is not bad, not bad at all, and i, personally, agree on all your points. Still timing is everything and i do think the timing is pretty bad to annouce such a thing.
I would not fully trust social media reactions even under The Telegraph twitter post as a true reflection of British public view, given that it is almost the same audience who make vile comments on Prince Philip's death and tend to be heavily leaning on the progressive side (The #youthquake before December 2019 election, not reflecting the actual results)

There is an old slang that twitter is not real life.

If I'm not mistaken, The Sky News article is stating that it was Downing Street spokesperson that confirm the leaks/rumours that HM Prince Philip is going to be commissioned, not the Prime Minister making the official announcement (which will happen within weeks). There was even rumours that there was going to be a new Royal Yacht straight after Brexit in early 2020,but I think that news died down.
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  #305  
Old 05-03-2021, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I would not fully trust social media reactions even under The Telegraph twitter post as a true reflection of British public view, given that it is almost the same audience who make vile comments on Prince Philip's death and tend to be heavily leaning on the progressive side (The #youthquake before December 2019 election, not reflecting the actual results)

There is an old slang that twitter is not real life.

If I'm not mistaken, The Sky News article is stating that it was Downing Street spokesperson that confirm the leaks/rumours that HM Prince Philip is going to be commissioned, not the Prime Minister making the official announcement (which will happen within weeks). There was even rumours that there was going to be a new Royal Yacht straight after Brexit in early 2020,but I think that news died down.
The Torygraph, eh pardon.. The Telegraph has the most royalist attitude. When even the comment section under a royal article in that Tory newspaper is filled with negativeness, then this learns something.
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  #306  
Old 05-03-2021, 08:40 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Tatler December 2019:

Sir Donald Gosling leaves £50 million in his will for a new Royal Yacht

Quote:
A friend of the Royal Family has left them £50 million in his will, in order to replace the Royal Yacht Britannia, which was decommissioned in 1997.

Sir Donald Gosling, the founder of National Car Parks, died in September aged 90.
(...)

Throughout his lifetime he donated £100 million to charity, mostly to causes relating to the navy. He had previously attempted to raise £60 million for a new yacht to replace the Britannia, back in 1994.

(...)
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  #307  
Old 05-03-2021, 11:00 PM
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So if the funding ends up being largely private, does that mean less outrage?
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  #308  
Old 05-04-2021, 12:26 AM
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Who is going to man (and woman) this royal yacht? In the old days of Britannia and previous yachts it was officers and men from the Royal Navy, who were picked for the job. If this occurs with RY Prince Philip I can see the Press asking questions about the ongoing cost, even if merchant seamen are used.

And who is going to pay for ongoing maintenance, especially if it is used relatively rarely. It’s going to have to berth somewhere and there are those costs to be considered. It’s not just a question of covering the expense of constructing this vessel.
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  #309  
Old 05-04-2021, 01:55 PM
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Another issue apart from crewing & running costs would be providing an escort when the monarch was on board.
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  #310  
Old 05-04-2021, 02:00 PM
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Another issue apart from crewing & running costs would be providing an escort when the monarch was on board.

Th RN currently has only 19 fleet escorts (destroyers & frigates). Down from 37 at the time of Britannia's decommissioning. This might go up to 24 with the new type 32's. There are the 8 River Class OPV's as well which are as large as an old WW2 corvette but these are lightly armed.

Despite all these concerns it's a great idea. Maybe selling this as a national rather than royal yacht might make more sense. Possibly incorporating scientific research & youth training as part of the vessel.
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  #311  
Old 05-04-2021, 03:01 PM
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Indeed. Having this new yacht doubling as a cadet-ship is very much an option.

The Danish yacht Dannebrog is the basis for basic practical seamanship for some 50 or so conscripts each year.
Especially the specialist tasks like baker and cook, is something that counts on the CV.
In that capacity she also doubles as a floating ambassador, because she usually sails to a foreign port before the summer cruises start. Providing training for the conscripts.
And she functions in the basic tasks that all navy vessels perform when at sea: Surveillance and rescue.

Serving aboard Dannebrog is very sought after and there is currently a three year waiting list for conscripts wishing to serve aboard Dannebrog.

- So surely something similar could be arranged in Britain? Let her double as an advanced school ship.

ADDED: And when sailing in British waters an escort is hardly necessary.
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  #312  
Old 05-04-2021, 03:20 PM
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Britannia always had an escort when the monarch was aboard as far as I'm aware. Wherever it happened to be. But an OPV would suffice in UK waters I would think.

The problem is that the RN has been cut so much since the end of the Cold War that it barely merits being called a blue water navy any more. Thankfully there is renewed awareness of the importance of the RN to Britain & a commitment to expanding its numbers & capabilities as the two new aircraft carriers & future type 26 frigates (destroyer sized) demonstrate. That's the context in which the construction of a new national/royal yacht makes sense. As part of a continuous national ship building industry.

Although I'd be more than happy if the Turks would let us buy the Savarona. A gorgeous ship.

Prince Philip said that Britannia was structurally sound & could easily have been modernised with new engines. A great pity that didn't happen. Ships like Dannebrog & Norge are beautiful classic vessels & show what could have been done.
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  #313  
Old 05-04-2021, 03:56 PM
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And would make things easier for say a tour of the Scottish isles. It won't be necessary to flood the local hotels and manors with royal staff members and the BRF members won't have to fly back and forth, but can stay aboard and put their feet up the moment the guests are off the ship.

I can easily imagine the W&K family doing that, with their children.
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  #314  
Old 05-04-2021, 04:44 PM
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I believe the cost for upgrades in the 90s was £10mil. Guess the are still regretting not paying it then.
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  #315  
Old 05-04-2021, 04:57 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
So if the funding ends up being largely private, does that mean less outrage?
No, its a ridiculous waste of money....
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  #316  
Old 05-04-2021, 04:57 PM
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It was very short sighted to decommission Britannia but unfortunately it didn't chime with the politics of the incoming 1997 government.

I mentioned Savarona up thread. Ataturk's former yacht. Originally built for the US heiress Emily Cadwallader. It's of a similar size to Britannia & was launched in 1931 & restored after fire damage in the nineties. Britannia could easily have been similarly maintained but the political will wasn't there.
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  #317  
Old 05-04-2021, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No, its a ridiculous waste of money....
A lot of people think so. And some don't. I'm a supporter but I'll only believe it when there's a formal announcement.

It would be a great promotion for British expertise from ship building to interior design to engineering. The yacht market's a valuable industry. Builders like Lursson are very profitable companies. A real life royal yacht built in Britain would be a great advert for British maritime industry.
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  #318  
Old 05-06-2021, 05:24 PM
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New royal yacht named after Prince Philip to be 'commissioned within weeks', costing as much as £200m.
https://news.sky.com/story/new-royal...-200m-12292880
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  #319  
Old 05-06-2021, 06:29 PM
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See all the posts above; or is there something new in the article for us to know about?
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  #320  
Old 05-06-2021, 06:50 PM
Aristocracy
 
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Here is two Telegraph articles about this royal yacht which been quoted by other papers and have answer to several question discussed on this thread:

From 10 April 2021 (not long after DoE's passing):
Boris Johnson urged to back new Royal Yacht Britannia as memorial to Prince Philip
Archive: https://archive.ph/TnxfY
Quote:
(...)

MPs, Cabinet ministers, businessmen and a former captain of Britannia are backing calls for the successor to be named HMY The Duke of Edinburgh as a sister vessel to aircraft carriers Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales.
One Cabinet minister said the yacht could form a major of the Prime Minister's ambitious ship-building programme, set out last autumn.

(...)

Political support could increase if the Government said the yacht would double as a hospital ship or a training vessel for young people. The minister said: "Britannia was built to be a hospital ship as well as a royal yacht. Building a vast pleasure cruiser is not something that anyone is going to support.

"But having a symbol of the nation that can travel the world, be used by the Royal family and have another sensible purpose such as helping young people is a better scheme. It could also be a flagship for reinvigorated British shipbuilding."

The original royal yacht was retired in December 1997. She is now berthed at Edinburgh, where she is one of the UK's most popular tourist attractions. A secret naval design for a £100 million replacement was drawn up by naval staff and approved by representatives of the Royal family, but the Labour Government refused to pay for it.

(...)
Several names who vioce their support as mentioned on above article:
  • Tory MP Craig MacKinlay, who has been co-ordinating a Westminster group backing plans for a new yacht
  • Jake Berry, the chairman of the Northern Research Group of Conservative MPs
  • Commodore Tony Morrow, the yacht's last captain
  • Ian Maiden, a millionaire businessman who has been campaigning for a new yacht to connect the UK to Commonwealth countries after Brexit
  • Sam Armstrong, a spokesman at the Henry Jackson Society which has called for a replacement for Britannia

From 1 May 2021:
Exclusive: Britannia to rule the waves once more, with new royal yacht named after Prince Philip
Archive: https://archive.ph/C8eXV
Quote:
Boris Johnson will announce within weeks a new national flagship named after the Duke of Edinburgh that will be seen as a successor to the Royal Yacht Britannia.

(...)

The new ship would be crewed by the Royal Navy, senior sources said. It will be the first official government commemoration to Prince Philip.

The announcement – dubbed Project Leith, after the Edinburgh district where the original yacht is moored – had been held up by a wrangle over whether the new ship was to be paid for by the Ministry of Defence or the Cabinet Office.

(...)

The Telegraph has been campaigning for a replacement for HMY Britannia since Britons voted to leave the European Union in 2016.

(...)

The hope is that as a MoD asset, ministers can direct that the vessel is built in UK shipyards in order to create jobs, reinvigorate the UK’s shipbuilding industry and showcase the best of British design, engineering and ingenuity around the world.

One senior source said the plan was “ready to go”. Another said: “There was a bit of a fight between the MoD and the Cabinet Office about who pays for it.

“The lawyers are all over it because in order to stipulate that it is made in Britain it has to have a military use, otherwise it will go out to procurement and could be made in Italy.”

(...)
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