Royal Security

[stunking]

When the Sussexes released their first statement early they made a lot of assumptions that proved incorrect. I'm sure they thought it all so simple, no problem. It would be interesting to know their thoughts now, or would it be. Sad.

 

[Denville]

When the Sussexes released their first statement early they made a lot of assumptions that proved incorrect. I'm sure they thought it all so simple, no problem. It would be interesting to know their thoughts now, or would it be. Sad.

I don't think that that their thoughts are any different now. I think they made up their minds they wanted to leave,,, and publicised it.. and when they were told they coudnt be half and half royals, they just left for Canada. Now, there has probalby been behind the scenes discussions for the past month or so and they have been told again that if they want to leave theire will be certain consequences but they don't really accept that.

 

[Reinosa]

As I see it, this isn't about to trying to punish anyone, or hating anyone, or "revenge". It's about the fact that it's difficult to justify spending millions of pounds on security for people who are performing no public service, when there've had to be cuts to the numbers of police on the streets trying to protect 65 million people from being mugged, burgled or worse. It's only a media estimate and probably way out, but the reports are that the costs of security for them in Canada would be £14 million more than if they were in the UK, because of the travel costs and the fact that official vehicles wouldn't be there anyway. That's a lot of money that could otherwise be spent on general policing.

I agree with you.

 

[camelot23ca]

I’m glad the Canadian government drew a line in the sand re: the security costs. More generally I think this could be a thorny issue going forward.

Part of the problem is that I suspect Harry and Meghan don’t want low key lives. They don’t want to settle in BC and come back to the UK two or three times a year for visits. They want a base in Vancouver or Toronto, they want to fly to NY every so often to appear at high profile events, they want to fly to Florida or the Caribbean to be the entertainment for a bunch of bankers, they want to spend part of their summers in LA and then part in Spain, and then of course they’ll have to fit in some time for the UK. They want to live the carefree, nomadic life of some of their very rich friends.

The problem is, as Elton John or the like could easily tell them, security costs for that kind of lifestyle are enormous. Especially for people who are no longer living in places covered by the existing security infrastructure of the BRF. I think how much of these new expenses the British public should have to cover is a legitimate question.

 

[Denville]

I’m glad the Canadian government drew a line in the sand re: the security costs. More generally I think this could be a thorny issue going forward.

Part of the problem is that I suspect Harry and Meghan don’t want low key lives. They don’t want to settle in BC and come back to the UK two or three times a year for visits. They want a base in Vancouver or Toronto, they want to fly to NY every so often to appear at high profile events, they want to fly to Florida or the Caribbean to be the entertainment for a bunch of bankers, they want to spend part of their summers in LA and then part in Spain, and then of course they’ll have to fit in some time for the UK. They want to live the carefree, nomadic life of some of their very rich friends.

T.

We shall see when they get settled. Its true (as some have said) that they have been relatively quiet in one way in the past 2 months.. mostly presumably living in their house in Canada..but even then tehre has been the trip to the Morgan foundation thing.. Harry has now come back to the UK..
If they are going to do speaking engagements or some kind of business stuff, there will be travel for that, and they'll probably come to the UK for a bit of charity work and to meet the RF...so it will all add up...

 

[Osipi]

After April 1st and the cut off date of being "senior working royals", it'll be the most opportune time for them to launch whatever "entity" they have in mind for going into their new, private life and the work they do. Most likely more information will then be available as to what they're doing and where they're going as they'll have their own PR staff or calendar of upcoming events.

Even in this respect, I would imagine that some details will be kept to a minimum and appear sketchy due to security risks. Its a watch and see situation all the way around.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Yes - so it's hard to argue that there should be an exception for Harry and Meghan, when there isn't for Beatrice and Eugenie, and police resources are stretched as it is. It'll probably end up being like the "Who pays for the repairs to Windsor Castle after the fire?" saga - if there's a public outcry, public funding will be withdrawn. If there isn't, who knows?

My personal assessment says that the Duke and Duchess of Sussex have a far higher score on the risk ladder than the two York ladies. Any lone wolf, lunatic, stalker, terrorist or paperazzo will be more glued to the Sussexes than to Princess Eugenie, Mrs James Brooksbank and the soon to be Princess Beatrice, Mrs Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi, who both already are moving towards the periphery of public attention.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...rry-Meghan-Markles-protection-Thats-rich.html


As others have pointed out, Harry is a private citizen in Canada. No public service, no public money for security.

They wanted to be financially independent, so include the money for hiring bodyguards.

Seriously, this is a no brainer, at least for public opinion. Trudeau understood quickly, if Britain doesnt and pay for security in Canada, there will be an enormous backslash. The BRF will not be able to afford to hand over the bill to the british taxpayer to look after 2 celebrities traveling the world in search of big money jobs.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...rry-Meghan-Markles-protection-Thats-rich.html


As others have pointed out, Harry is a private citizen in Canada. No public service, no public money for security.

They wanted to be financially independent, so include the money for hiring bodyguards.

Seriously, this is a no brainer, at least for public opinion. Trudeau understood quickly, if Britain doesnt and pay for security in Canada, there will be an enormous backslash. The BRF will not be able to afford to hand over the bill to the british taxpayer to look after 2 celebrities traveling the world in search of big money jobs.

What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?

 

[Denville]

What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?

He has stated that the Canadian govt can't continue to do Harry's security. Then it is up to Harry, who is a grown man of 35 or 6 to arrange his own security....

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?

Sorry, I don't see how this is the responsibility of Trudeau or the Canadian citizens. It is either the responsibility of the BRF or Harry himself. Both have enough money to ensure proper security.
Why do ordinary citizens have to pay for a person who does no service to the country?

 

[victor1319]

Citizen "Harry" was born as Prince Henry. He did not ask for it, he did not volunteer.

And for a lot of folks he is still this Prince, even after March 31st. And this comes with a hightened security risk.

There should be - and I repeat myself - a period in which he still has some support, especially in these security questions. A year or so...

 

[Lilyflo]

Just a reminder for people drawing parallels with Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie, Harry was on active service in Afghanistan and the Taliban / IS have publicly stated he's a target for them. Now that he's married, this threat might also include his wife & child.

 

[Lumutqueen]

Harry was on active service in Afghanistan and the Taliban / IS have publicly stated he's a target for them. Now that he's married, this threat might also include his wife & child.

I've said this before in my previous post, and I don't wish to downplay the seriousness of the situation at all. But, personally, Henry's tour of Afghanistan was a long time ago, a peace deal between the USA and Afghan Taliban was signed today. As for the IS threat this has seriously lessened in recent years, and there is nothing a government funded security detail can do that a private one wouldn't do just as well. I don't think this perceived threat, is as prominent anymore.

 

[Denville]

Just a reminder for people drawing parallels with Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie, Harry was on active service in Afghanistan and the Taliban / IS have publicly stated he's a target for them. Now that he's married, this threat might also include his wife & child.

Yes, there may be threats against his safety. That does not mean that the Canadian tax payer or the British tax payer should have to pay for his security indefinitely...

 

[Lilyflo]

I've said this before in my previous post, and I don't wish to downplay the seriousness of the situation at all. But, personally, Henry's tour of Afghanistan was a long time ago, a peace deal between the USA and Afghan Taliban was signed today. As for the IS threat this has seriously lessened in recent years, and there is nothing a government funded security detail can do that a private one wouldn't do just as well. I don't think this perceived threat, is as prominent anymore.

I agree it's probably not as great a threat as before but it does show a distinction between Harry's risk factors & those of the York Princesses. As for who should pay for his security costs, the longer he lives and works away from the UK, the less inclined many Brits will be to fund it.

 

[yvr girl]

Harry and Meghan have made a lot of assumptions. The only places they have a right to live is the UK and the USA based on their citizenships. They have just moved to Canada. Currently, they get protection because of their status as internationally protected persons. If that status is about to change, as the Canadian announcement alludes, then no country is obligated to give them extra protection when they travel.

If I went to the States, I would expect a response if I needed to call 911. I would not expect close personal protection.

If they had stepped back from their duties but remained in the UK, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as the costs wouldn't be ballooning.

They are racking up protection costs like they are on tour because they do not have a permanent base. It's not sustainable. Public money needs to be spent judiciously.

 

[Durham]

Harry and Meghan have made a lot of assumptions. The only places they have a right to live is the UK and the USA based on their citizenships. They have just moved to Canada. Currently, they get protection because of their status as internationally protected persons. If that status is about to change, as the Canadian announcement alludes, then no country is obligated to give them extra protection when they travel.

If I went to the States, I would expect a response if I needed to call 911. I would not expect close personal protection.

If they had stepped back from their duties but remained in the UK, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as the costs wouldn't be ballooning.

They are racking up protection costs like they are on tour because they do not have a permanent base. It's not sustainable. Public money needs to be spent judiciously.

It certainly comes across as rushed & poorly thought through.

 

[Durham]

If they had stepped back from their duties but remained in the UK, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as the costs wouldn't be ballooning.

This is irrefutable.

 

[camelot23ca]

What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?

Trudeau has made it clear that the Canadian government is not willing to take on significant security costs for a family it is not obligated by law to cover. Fair warning has been given.

The ball is now back in the UK/BRF’s court. The British government can continue paying for the costs. Charles and/or the Queen could pay for them out of their private funds. Or there could be a combination of government and family funding.

 

[Denville]

Trudeau has made it clear that the Canadian government is not willing to take on significant security costs for a family it is not obligated by law to cover. Fair warning has been given.

The ball is now back in the UK/BRF’s court. The British government can continue paying for the costs. Charles and/or the Queen could pay for them out of their private funds. Or there could be a combination of government and family funding.

Or - daring thought. Harry and Meg start paying themselves...

 

[Alison H]

Whilst they're working Royals, they're Internationally Protected Persons, and entitled to security. After that, they're not, and they aren't Justin Trudeau's personal responsibility. Was it Boris Johnson's fault that two people were killed by a terrorist in London last year? Was it Angela Merkel's fault that two people were killed by a terrorist in Halle last year? Was it Jacinta Ardern's fault that over 50 people were killed by terrorist attacks in Christchurch last year? No, of course it wasn't. And all those people's lives mattered as well. High-profile individuals who are not Internationally Protected Persons have to pay for their own security. That's just the way it is.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Sorry, I don't see how this is the responsibility of Trudeau or the Canadian citizens. It is either the responsibility of the BRF or Harry himself. Both have enough money to ensure proper security.
Why do ordinary citizens have to pay for a person who does no service to the country?

Justin Trudeau will for sure feel it was his security indeed when the Duke or Duchess ir their son are attacked. He will wriggle in all directions, probably a security chief here or there will be slaughtered as the occasional scapegoat to redirect from the Prime Minister but he will feel it that he has denied a resident of Canada, with a risk profile, the protection which may be expected.

 

[Denville]

Justin Trudeau will for sure feel it was his security indeed when the Duke or Duchess ir their son are attacked. He will wriggle in all directions, probably a security chief here or there will be slaughtered as the occasional scapegoat to redirect from the Prime Minister but he will feel it that he has denied a resident of Canada, with a risk profile, the protection which may be expected.

a temporary resident of Canada, whom the public do not want to pay for...

 

[Muhler]

What's the Canadian legislation in regards to bodyguards being armed?

Because considering the threat-level against Harry in particular, they will have to be armed.
Any Islamist killing Harry will be praised endlessly. And Canada has already experienced acts of Islamist terrorism.

So while the argument about not paying for foreign, private citizens living in Canada is understandable, can the Canadian government - any Canadian government - afford the risk of not providing protection for H&M?

 

[Denville]

What's the Canadian legislation in regards to bodyguards being armed?

Because considering the threat-level against Harry in particular, they will have to be armed.
Any Islamist killing Harry will be praised endlessly. And Canada has already experienced acts of Islamist terrorism.

So while the argument about not paying for foreign, private citizens living in Canada is understandable, can the Canadian government - any Canadian government - afford the risk of not providing protection for H&M?

they clearly feel that they are not going to provide protection for much longer. If Harry needs protection.. he's a grown man, he msut be aware of the risks, and it is up to him to take action.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

He has stated that the Canadian govt can't continue to do Harry's security. Then it is up to Harry, who is a grown man of 35 or 6 to arrange his own security....

Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.

 

[Denville]

Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.

what is there to stop a rich man like Harry providing his own security like thousands of rich people do? I don't know what the situation is in Italy but these people you mention are public servants which harry is not, any more.

 

[Muhler]

they clearly feel that they are not going to provide protection for much longer. If Harry needs protection.. he's a grown man, he msut be aware of the risks, and it is up to him to take action.

Well, the Canadian government is no doubt irritated in many ways about H&M, protection being just one annoying problem, but as other have pointed out can a Canadian government take the risk of anything happening to H&M and there was no government protection around?
Or that a privately hired bodyguard opens fire in public?

- I think the Canadian government members will have problems hiding their delight should H&M decide to settle elsewhere.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.

How does this compare to Harry? Judges, magistrates, mayors are public servants being threatened while doing their job for their country. Of course they and their families are protected by the state.
Harry is a private citizen and if he feels threatened, he needs to take care of this himself and not ask the state, in this case even a foreign state, to do so.