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  #721  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.
So if H&M had moved to the Netherlands to be private citizens you had expected the dutch government (i.o.w. taxpayer) to pay for their security?
Think that would have been hard to explain...

Agree with Mühler: I bet the canadian government wouldn't mind if they decided to move to another country..
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  #722  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:58 PM
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My feeling is if you metaphorically give the middle finger to an entire country, don't expect them to pay for your lifestyle. They clearly did not think this through, probably figuring they were so loved that everyone would just love to pay their expenses. Welcome to the real world.
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  #723  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Well, the Canadian government is no doubt irritated in many ways about H&M, protection being just one annoying problem, but as other have pointed out can a Canadian government take the risk of anything happening to H&M and there was no government protection around?
Or that a privately hired bodyguard opens fire in public?

- I think the Canadian government members will have problems hiding their delight should H&M decide to settle elsewhere.
I assume that they have conveyed their ideas to Harry and Megahn by now.. that there are limits on how long they can afford to supply them with protection.
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  #724  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:05 PM
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Nobody wants Harry and Meghan and Archie to be at risk, but neither the British nor the Canadian government has a bottomless pit of money. What about all the millions of people whose lives are at risk because there are not enough beds in hospitals, or there are not enough police walking the streets to ensure public safety, or there is not enough mental health support for people at risk of self-harm? Isn't there a collective responsibility for everybody else's well-being too? £20 million per year, which is the figure being mentioned, could benefit a large number of people, and people who are not public servants are not generally entitled to state-funded security. Harry and Meghan are not the only people on the planet. They should have taken all this into consideration.
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  #725  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?
Probably something along the lines of "we told them we couldn't provide protection for them but they still choose to stay in Canada as private citizens"

No one is forcing them to move to Canada, its their choice and, so long as they know what will or won't be provided its up to them to make the choices they want or have to make. Remember they have chosen to move to Canada as private citizens not as representatives of HM The Queen or of Canada, nor indeed, even as official representatives of the UK.
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  #726  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Lady Marlboro View Post
My feeling is if you metaphorically give the middle finger to an entire country, don't expect them to pay for your lifestyle. They clearly did not think this through, probably figuring they were so loved that everyone would just love to pay their expenses. Welcome to the real world.
Precisely. They have left the UK where they were working and entitled to security. they have apparently settled in Canada - a country of which neither of them is a citizen and it may well be that the Canadain govt will not permit them to live there permanently.. and wherever they go, no the world doesn't "love them so much" that the tax payers of a country are wiling to pay their expenses.
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  #727  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I assume that they have conveyed their ideas to Harry and Megahn by now.. that there are limits on how long they can afford to supply them with protection.
Yes, and ideally they will find a solution of their own. That is either hiring armed bodyguards - if that's possible according to Canadian legislation.
Or move somewhere else.

A third option would be for H&M to pay for their own security provided by Canadian police - but that opens up another problem: Because that will create a precedence that you can get extra government protection, provided you pay for it... Say a permanent police patrol in your neighborhood.
H&M are private citizens now, so the comparison is valid.
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  #728  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
My feeling is if you metaphorically give the middle finger to an entire country, don't expect them to pay for your lifestyle. They clearly did not think this through, probably figuring they were so loved that everyone would just love to pay their expenses. Welcome to the real world.
Perfectly put.. The ongoing 'sense of entitlement' from this couple is what 'grates', and will be their undoing in the future..
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  #729  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:16 PM
ACO ACO is offline
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Dai Davis the former head of the Met royal protection squad was interviewed about the Sussexes needing security of their level. He explained that Harry and Meghan have received extreme threats and because of that they have been advised against a private security firm unless they have proper access to intelligence and risk accessment to counter and be properly prepared. He went on about a lot of technical stuff which basically was echoed here that the threat level determines who does and doesn’t have their security.

It is a complicated matter and seemly not as simple as “ they need to just hire from s private firm” despite that being the pleas of some. So it will be interesting to see how it’s handled going forward. I don’t expect much change right now but in a year? I would assume so.
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  #730  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Probably something along the lines of "we told them we couldn't provide protection for them but they still choose to stay in Canada as private citizens"

No one is forcing them to move to Canada, its their choice and, so long as they know what will or won't be provided its up to them to make the choices they want or have to make. Remember they have chosen to move to Canada as private citizens not as representatives of HM The Queen or of Canada, nor indeed, even as official representatives of the UK.
Exactly! Moving to Canada was a choice. Choices can have consequences. They could move back to Windsor if they feel entitled to tax funded security. Although after some of their actions and words it still would be controversial.
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  #731  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Exactly! Moving to Canada was a choice. Choices can have consequences. They could move back to Windsor if they feel entitled to tax funded security. Although after some of their actions and words it still would be controversial.
I think If they were back in the UK, there might be a perception of "they're not working as royals, other non working Royals don't get their security paid for..." and so they would be in the same boat.
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  #732  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think If they were back in the UK, there might be a perception of "they're not working as royals, other non working Royals don't get their security paid for..." and so they would be in the same boat.


I agree it would be controversial period, whether they’re in Canada or the U.K.

But it would certainly be less expensive and less disruptive to the lives of the people who will have to provide the security.

They simply did not really think anything through. Even if they’d gotten the half in/half out plan, and were still classified as working royals, this still would have been much more expensive and disruptive. And controversial.
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  #733  
Old 02-29-2020, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I agree it would be controversial period, whether they’re in Canada or the U.K.

They simply did not really think anything through. Even if they’d gotten the half in/half out plan, and were still classified as working royals, this still would have been much more expensive and disruptive. And controversial.
true, if they had been allowed to stay half the year or so in Canada the security issue would have come up and been a problem.. but they simply seem to have bullishly decided that they wanted to do so something so it must be acceptable to the rest of the people they have to work with.. I was never a fan, but I really wish they would go off the radar now...
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  #734  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:02 PM
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The public forking out for their security while they are not working royals will be an issue in any country they live, maybe apart from the UK but they made it clear that they will not settle there.
In case they will live in the US among the Rich and Famous even the thought of the US government picking up the bill is not imaginable. One tweet from the president and they will become the laughing stock of the world.
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  #735  
Old 02-29-2020, 02:09 PM
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Well, I happen to believe that MI5 would keep tabs on Harry even if he moved to Tahiti, shaved his head, changed his name and sold timeshares for a living----because of his relationship to the current monarch, her heir, and then his heir. I also happen to think the reigning monarch would be advised of any significant issues or threats revealed by their intelligence.

So perhaps the main concern right now is random crazy person threats which every person on the planet is vulnerable to, not just celebrities. Harry, pay for your personal security that is needed because you are a celebrity. Determine the level you need and put it in place. Get the advice of people who have made these arrangements. And realize that you have the added backstop of what is arguably the world's finest intelligence service because of the accident of your birth that other celebrities don't have---you really have no room to complain.
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  #736  
Old 02-29-2020, 03:43 PM
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A Briton is “compelled to start a petition for the people of the UK objecting to paying for their (H&M)
global security costs in the hope this will lead to a public debate and ultimately prevent the House of Commons and the House of Lords from doing so......
They need to learn they have to earn their way of life, they are not entitled to it from the taxpayers of the UK just because Harry was born a prince over 35 years ago.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...ion-royal-news
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  #737  
Old 03-01-2020, 02:48 PM
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Canada was providing security due to their status as International Protected People, (maybe I don’t have the phrase exactly right). Apparently they will lose that status in the spring and therefore Canada is off the hook. But I think the UK is still obligated to provide security for them if their threat level is high enough, which I assume it will be due to their high profile and the family Harry comes from. I don’t think it matters where they live or travel.

The BRF could offer to either assume the security costs or at least make some contribution towards them. I don’t think the royal family wants Harry and Meghan’s high security costs to be an ongoing public controversy. If I were them, provided I had enough disposable income, I’d suck it up and pay, just to put the issue to bed. It’s totally unfair but there you have it.
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  #738  
Old 03-01-2020, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Canada was providing security due to their status as International Protected People, (maybe I don’t have the phrase exactly right). Apparently they will lose that status in the spring and therefore Canada is off the hook. But I think the UK is still obligated to provide security for them if their threat level is high enough, which I assume it will be due to their high profile and the family Harry comes from. I don’t think it matters where they live or travel.

The BRF could offer to either assume the security costs or at least make some contribution towards them. I don’t think the royal family wants Harry and Meghan’s high security costs to be an ongoing public controversy. If I were them, provided I had enough disposable income, I’d suck it up and pay, just to put the issue to bed. It’s totally unfair but there you have it.
Charles wil probably pay it...
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  #739  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:14 PM
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If the 20 million pounds figure is correct then the royal family would struggle to afford that. The income from the Duchy of Cornwall - before any expenses or allowances is about 20 million pounds and the Duchy of Lancaster is a less.

I do think that people who have taxpayer funded security also have an obligation to keep that figure down as much as possible by living in the country providing the security and not travelling all over the world for personal fun on a constant basis - for work, yes and maybe for one overseas holiday a year but otherwise they should stay in the country paying for their security.
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  #740  
Old 03-01-2020, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
If the 20 million pounds figure is correct then the royal family would struggle to afford that. The income from the Duchy of Cornwall - before any expenses or allowances is about 20 million pounds and the Duchy of Lancaster is a less.

I do think that people who have taxpayer funded security also have an obligation to keep that figure down as much as possible by living in the country providing the security and not travelling all over the world for personal fun on a constant basis - for work, yes and maybe for one overseas holiday a year but otherwise they should stay in the country paying for their security.
But someone will have to pay and call me cynical but Im not sure it will be Meg and Harry. Unless their business takes off. but I don't think the tax payer will do it for much longer.....
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