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  #701  
Old 02-29-2020, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?

Sorry, I don't see how this is the responsibility of Trudeau or the Canadian citizens. It is either the responsibility of the BRF or Harry himself. Both have enough money to ensure proper security.
Why do ordinary citizens have to pay for a person who does no service to the country?
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  #702  
Old 02-29-2020, 08:43 AM
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Citizen "Harry" was born as Prince Henry. He did not ask for it, he did not volunteer.

And for a lot of folks he is still this Prince, even after March 31st. And this comes with a hightened security risk.

There should be - and I repeat myself - a period in which he still has some support, especially in these security questions. A year or so...
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  #703  
Old 02-29-2020, 08:49 AM
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Just a reminder for people drawing parallels with Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie, Harry was on active service in Afghanistan and the Taliban / IS have publicly stated he's a target for them. Now that he's married, this threat might also include his wife & child.
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  #704  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Harry was on active service in Afghanistan and the Taliban / IS have publicly stated he's a target for them. Now that he's married, this threat might also include his wife & child.
I've said this before in my previous post, and I don't wish to downplay the seriousness of the situation at all. But, personally, Henry's tour of Afghanistan was a long time ago, a peace deal between the USA and Afghan Taliban was signed today. As for the IS threat this has seriously lessened in recent years, and there is nothing a government funded security detail can do that a private one wouldn't do just as well. I don't think this perceived threat, is as prominent anymore.
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  #705  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
Just a reminder for people drawing parallels with Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie, Harry was on active service in Afghanistan and the Taliban / IS have publicly stated he's a target for them. Now that he's married, this threat might also include his wife & child.
Yes, there may be threats against his safety. That does not mean that the Canadian tax payer or the British tax payer should have to pay for his security indefinitely...
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  #706  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
I've said this before in my previous post, and I don't wish to downplay the seriousness of the situation at all. But, personally, Henry's tour of Afghanistan was a long time ago, a peace deal between the USA and Afghan Taliban was signed today. As for the IS threat this has seriously lessened in recent years, and there is nothing a government funded security detail can do that a private one wouldn't do just as well. I don't think this perceived threat, is as prominent anymore.
I agree it's probably not as great a threat as before but it does show a distinction between Harry's risk factors & those of the York Princesses. As for who should pay for his security costs, the longer he lives and works away from the UK, the less inclined many Brits will be to fund it.
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  #707  
Old 02-29-2020, 09:58 AM
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Harry and Meghan have made a lot of assumptions. The only places they have a right to live is the UK and the USA based on their citizenships. They have just moved to Canada. Currently, they get protection because of their status as internationally protected persons. If that status is about to change, as the Canadian announcement alludes, then no country is obligated to give them extra protection when they travel.

If I went to the States, I would expect a response if I needed to call 911. I would not expect close personal protection.

If they had stepped back from their duties but remained in the UK, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as the costs wouldn't be ballooning.

They are racking up protection costs like they are on tour because they do not have a permanent base. It's not sustainable. Public money needs to be spent judiciously.
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  #708  
Old 02-29-2020, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post
Harry and Meghan have made a lot of assumptions. The only places they have a right to live is the UK and the USA based on their citizenships. They have just moved to Canada. Currently, they get protection because of their status as internationally protected persons. If that status is about to change, as the Canadian announcement alludes, then no country is obligated to give them extra protection when they travel.

If I went to the States, I would expect a response if I needed to call 911. I would not expect close personal protection.

If they had stepped back from their duties but remained in the UK, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as the costs wouldn't be ballooning.

They are racking up protection costs like they are on tour because they do not have a permanent base. It's not sustainable. Public money needs to be spent judiciously.
It certainly comes across as rushed & poorly thought through.
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  #709  
Old 02-29-2020, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by yvr girl View Post

If they had stepped back from their duties but remained in the UK, there wouldn't have been as much of an uproar as the costs wouldn't be ballooning.
This is irrefutable.
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  #710  
Old 02-29-2020, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What will Trudeau's response be when a lone wolf, a lunatic, a terrorist or anything manages to threat, harrass or actually injure the Duke, the Duchess or their child indeed? Or will he do the Pontius Pilatus act and wash his hands in forged innocence?
Trudeau has made it clear that the Canadian government is not willing to take on significant security costs for a family it is not obligated by law to cover. Fair warning has been given.

The ball is now back in the UK/BRF’s court. The British government can continue paying for the costs. Charles and/or the Queen could pay for them out of their private funds. Or there could be a combination of government and family funding.
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  #711  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Trudeau has made it clear that the Canadian government is not willing to take on significant security costs for a family it is not obligated by law to cover. Fair warning has been given.

The ball is now back in the UK/BRF’s court. The British government can continue paying for the costs. Charles and/or the Queen could pay for them out of their private funds. Or there could be a combination of government and family funding.
Or - daring thought. Harry and Meg start paying themselves...
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  #712  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:15 PM
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Whilst they're working Royals, they're Internationally Protected Persons, and entitled to security. After that, they're not, and they aren't Justin Trudeau's personal responsibility. Was it Boris Johnson's fault that two people were killed by a terrorist in London last year? Was it Angela Merkel's fault that two people were killed by a terrorist in Halle last year? Was it Jacinta Ardern's fault that over 50 people were killed by terrorist attacks in Christchurch last year? No, of course it wasn't. And all those people's lives mattered as well. High-profile individuals who are not Internationally Protected Persons have to pay for their own security. That's just the way it is.
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  #713  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Sorry, I don't see how this is the responsibility of Trudeau or the Canadian citizens. It is either the responsibility of the BRF or Harry himself. Both have enough money to ensure proper security.
Why do ordinary citizens have to pay for a person who does no service to the country?
Justin Trudeau will for sure feel it was his security indeed when the Duke or Duchess ir their son are attacked. He will wriggle in all directions, probably a security chief here or there will be slaughtered as the occasional scapegoat to redirect from the Prime Minister but he will feel it that he has denied a resident of Canada, with a risk profile, the protection which may be expected.
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  #714  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Justin Trudeau will for sure feel it was his security indeed when the Duke or Duchess ir their son are attacked. He will wriggle in all directions, probably a security chief here or there will be slaughtered as the occasional scapegoat to redirect from the Prime Minister but he will feel it that he has denied a resident of Canada, with a risk profile, the protection which may be expected.
a temporary resident of Canada, whom the public do not want to pay for...
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  #715  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:29 PM
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What's the Canadian legislation in regards to bodyguards being armed?

Because considering the threat-level against Harry in particular, they will have to be armed.
Any Islamist killing Harry will be praised endlessly. And Canada has already experienced acts of Islamist terrorism.

So while the argument about not paying for foreign, private citizens living in Canada is understandable, can the Canadian government - any Canadian government - afford the risk of not providing protection for H&M?
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  #716  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
What's the Canadian legislation in regards to bodyguards being armed?

Because considering the threat-level against Harry in particular, they will have to be armed.
Any Islamist killing Harry will be praised endlessly. And Canada has already experienced acts of Islamist terrorism.

So while the argument about not paying for foreign, private citizens living in Canada is understandable, can the Canadian government - any Canadian government - afford the risk of not providing protection for H&M?
they clearly feel that they are not going to provide protection for much longer. If Harry needs protection.. he's a grown man, he msut be aware of the risks, and it is up to him to take action.
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  #717  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
He has stated that the Canadian govt can't continue to do Harry's security. Then it is up to Harry, who is a grown man of 35 or 6 to arrange his own security....
Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.
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  #718  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.
what is there to stop a rich man like Harry providing his own security like thousands of rich people do? I don't know what the situation is in Italy but these people you mention are public servants which harry is not, any more.
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  #719  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:44 PM
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they clearly feel that they are not going to provide protection for much longer. If Harry needs protection.. he's a grown man, he msut be aware of the risks, and it is up to him to take action.
Well, the Canadian government is no doubt irritated in many ways about H&M, protection being just one annoying problem, but as other have pointed out can a Canadian government take the risk of anything happening to H&M and there was no government protection around?
Or that a privately hired bodyguard opens fire in public?

- I think the Canadian government members will have problems hiding their delight should H&M decide to settle elsewhere.
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  #720  
Old 02-29-2020, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Absurd. It is like one has to order security at Amazon or Alibaba while it is the Government, and the Government only, to maintain law and order.

All those folks under threat of the mafia in Italy receive security. Family of judges, of magistrates, of mayors, of politicians. Thousands and thousands of the police and the Carabinieri have a fulltime duty to do so. Never has the State of Italy sent a bill. Or said: under threat of the mob? You are rich, aren't you? We will do nothing. In all countries on the Continent it is like this. But I do not know what it is, it looks like dollar signs rule in the Anglo-Saxon world. A collective responsibility for the safety of fellow human beings has made place for the mammoth of money.

How does this compare to Harry? Judges, magistrates, mayors are public servants being threatened while doing their job for their country. Of course they and their families are protected by the state.
Harry is a private citizen and if he feels threatened, he needs to take care of this himself and not ask the state, in this case even a foreign state, to do so.
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