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  #781  
Old 08-12-2021, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
She would likely be known Princess Philip of Greece and Denmark.
Princess Philip of Greece is more likely. "the late Prince Andrew of Greece and Princess Andrew (Princess Alice of Battenberg)" was used for Philip's parents in the announcement of their son's engagement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Didn't prince Philip already use the Mountbatten surname in the Navy? That was well before even meeting Elizabeth.
No, he signed "Philip, Prince of Greece" at the time.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...p-1563268.html

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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
The future Queen Anne was known as Princess George of Denmark until she succeeded her cousin/brother-in-law.
She was known as Princess Ann of Denmark as the British royal court had yet to adopt the custom of using the husband's given name for married women.


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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
If she married Philip while Edward was still king, she would have been Princess Elizabeth, Mrs. Mountbatten unless Edward created Philip The Duke of Edinburgh [...]
That's possible, but in reality the styles used for British princesses who wed untitled men were Lady Patricia Ramsay who renounced her own princessly title, Princess Margaret who retained it with no changes, and Princess Alexandra, the Honourable Mrs. Angus Ogilvy, Princess Beatrice, Mrs. Edoardo Mapelli Mozzi, and Princess Eugenie, Mrs. Jack Brooksbank who kept their princessly titles but had the first and last names of their husband, prefixed by Mrs., joined to it.
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  #782  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Queen Claude View Post
She would likely be known Princess Philip of Greece and Denmark.

I don't think so.


1) Elizabeth was a British princess in her own right. So, if the normal convention were followed, she should be styled HRH Princess Elizabeth, [Female version of her husband's title/style], in this case, HRH Princess Elizabeth, Princess Philip of Greece and Denmark.


2) On top of that, even if Edward VIII had remained king, Princess Elizabeth would still be the heiress presumptive to the throne, as David and Wallis would never have a child of their own. It is very likely that LPs would have been issued to give Philip a peerage (and an HRH) and to make Elizabeth's children princes/ princesses in their own right. So, most likely, she would be HRH Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of [xxx], and her children HRH Prince/Princess [name] of [xxx]. That is obviously speculation though as it is a hypothetical scenario.
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  #783  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLV View Post
Didn't prince Philip already use the Mountbatten surname in the Navy? That was well before even meeting Elizabeth.
No - he was HRH Prince Phillip of Greece and Denmark in the navy.

He didn't start to use any surname at all until 1947.
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  #784  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
No - he was HRH Prince Phillip of Greece and Denmark in the navy.
No, he normally used the designation "of Greece" in the Navy, not "of Greece and Denmark" (see the link upthread).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
1) Elizabeth was a British princess in her own right. So, if the normal convention were followed, she should be styled HRH Princess Elizabeth, [Female version of her husband's title/style], in this case, HRH Princess Elizabeth, Princess Philip of Greece and Denmark.
The normal convention for British princesses who married princes was the same as elsewhere in Europe, to be styled using the title of the husband (and, in the case of British usage, his forename), such as Princess Arthur of Connaught and Princess Charles of Denmark.

I doubt Elizabeth would have used "and Denmark" if her husband did not.
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  #785  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:38 AM
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The normal convention for British princesses who married princes was the same as elsewhere in Europe, to be styled using the title of the husband (and, in the case of British usage, his forename), such as Princess Arthur of Connaught and Princess Charles of Denmark.

I think it is a somewhat different situation from Princess Charles of Denmark (a British princess who became an actual member of a foreign royal family and lived at least part time overseas) or Princess Arthur of Connaught (a British princess married to another British prince).
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  #786  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I think it is a somewhat different situation from Princess Charles of Denmark (a British princess who became an actual member of a foreign royal family and lived at least part time overseas) or Princess Arthur of Connaught (a British princess married to another British prince).
The British princesses who married foreign princes and whose husbands became members of the British royal family and lived in Britain were styled in the same fashion, such as Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein and Princess Henry of Battenberg (though they subsequently dropped their German styles and titles due to the First World War).
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  #787  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The British princesses who married foreign princes and whose husbands became members of the British royal family and lived in Britain were styled in the same fashion, such as Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein and Princess Henry of Battenberg (though they subsequently dropped their German styles and titles due to the First World War).

The future Queen Anne, however, another heiress presumptive, is named "Princess Anne of Denmark" in the Act of Settlement, rather than Princess George of Denmark. Maybe it is a more recent Victorian custom?


Given Elizabeth's position in the line of succession, I still find it unlikely she would be known as Princess Philip. And Philip would probably still have to renounce his foreign titles anyway.
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  #788  
Old 08-12-2021, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

No, he signed "Philip, Prince of Greece" at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
No - he was HRH Prince Phillip of Greece and Denmark in the navy.

He didn't start to use any surname at all until 1947.
Thank you both.
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  #789  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:05 PM
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What would Charles and Anne be called?

Lord Charles Mountbatten?

Lady Anne Mountbatten?
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  #790  
Old 08-12-2021, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Not in this reality. Women weren't granted hereditary peerages then and they aren't granted now.

If she married Philip while Edward was still king, she would have been Princess Elizabeth, Mrs. Mountbatten unless Edward created Philip The Duke of Edinburgh in which then she would have been known as Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh. In her father's reign, upon marriage, she was known as The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.
What would Charles be?

Mr Charles Mountbatten?
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  #791  
Old 08-12-2021, 10:49 PM
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The children of Princess Elizabeth (or Princess Elizabeth, Mrs. Philip Mountbatten) and Mr. Philip Mountbatten would have been called Master Charles Mountbatten and Miss Anne Mountbatten, unless granted titles by the King. British princesses do not automatically transmit titles to their children.

The children of Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh and The Duke of Edinburgh would have been called Earl of Merioneth (the Duke's second highest title) and Lady Anne Mountbatten, following the customs of the British peerage, unless granted higher titles by the King, as he did in reality.
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  #792  
Old 08-14-2021, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The children of Princess Elizabeth (or Princess Elizabeth, Mrs. Philip Mountbatten) and Mr. Philip Mountbatten would have been called Master Charles Mountbatten and Miss Anne Mountbatten, unless granted titles by the King. British princesses do not automatically transmit titles to their children.

The children of Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh and The Duke of Edinburgh would have been called Earl of Merioneth (the Duke's second highest title) and Lady Anne Mountbatten, following the customs of the British peerage, unless granted higher titles by the King, as he did in reality.
So, William and Harry would have been Baron Greenwich and Mr. Harry Mountbatten or Lord Harry Mountbatten
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  #793  
Old 08-14-2021, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
So, William and Harry would have been Baron Greenwich and Mr. Harry Mountbatten or Lord Harry Mountbatten
Yes, That is correct. William Arthur would have had the secondary title of Prince Philip, which was Baron Greenwich.
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  #794  
Old 08-14-2021, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westfield Bakery View Post
So, William and Harry would have been Baron Greenwich and Mr. Harry Mountbatten or Lord Harry Mountbatten
I believe Harry would be 'The Hon.' instead of 'mr.' or 'Lord'; as he would be treated as the younger son of an earl.

See for example the dukedom of Abercorn, where a grandson by the eldest son who uses a subsidiary title is treated as the son of said title - Marquess: The Duke of Abercorn has two sons. James, the eldest, uses the subsidiary title of 'Marquess of Hamilton', while his younger son is 'Lord Nicholas'. James (Marquess of Hamilton) also has two sons: his eldest (another James) uses the subsidiary title 'Viscount Strabane', while his younger son is known as Lord Claud.
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  #795  
Old 08-14-2021, 12:00 PM
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The younger son of an earl is The Hon (Honourable) in certain contexts and otherwise Mr.

Sons of an Earl, Earl and Countess, Titles, Forms Of Address, People of Influence | Debrett's
How to address the Younger Son of an Earl

The recommended (social) style of address is as follows:
Beginning of letter: Dear Mr Browne
End of letter: Yours sincerely
Envelope: The Hon John Browne
Verbal communication: Mr Browne
Invitation: Mr John Browne
Description in conversation: Mr Browne
List of Directors or Patrons: Hon John Browne
Place card: Mr John Browne
Legal document: John Browne Esquire commonly called The Honourable John Browne
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  #796  
Old 08-14-2021, 12:28 PM
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I think the main question was whether he would be treated as such given dat the title of 'earl' would not be Charles's own title but only a subsidiary title from his father the Duke. My take is that it is 'counted' as if it were his own title and therefore, his children would be treated as if they were sons of an earl (subsidiary title for the eldest son, the hon for younger sons and lady for daughters).
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  #797  
Old 08-14-2021, 01:12 PM
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The Earl of St Andrews is a subsidiary title of the Duke of Kent, and is used by his eldest son. The Earl's daughters are Lady Marina and Lady Amelia, and his son is Lord (Baron) Downpatrick, another of the Duke of Kent's subsidiary titles. It would presumably have worked the same way for Prince Charles if he'd been Earl of Merioneth, so, yes.
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  #798  
Old 08-14-2021, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I think the main question was whether he would be treated as such given dat the title of 'earl' would not be Charles's own title but only a subsidiary title from his father the Duke. My take is that it is 'counted' as if it were his own title
You're absolutely correct, and it wasn't my intent to imply otherwise.
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