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  #761  
Old 07-22-2021, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
That is an interesting question. On the one hand, there seems to be a movement in Britain and many other countries towards increased gender equity. On the other hand, polls have found that younger generations prefer male-only or male-preference succession more than older generations do, in regards to both peerages and the throne.
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
I'm genuinely surprised by that. I'd always presumed that young equalled more progressive/less traditional but clearly that's a lazy assumption on my part.

Interesting to learn that.

Here is one poll of Londoners from YouGov, conducted in March 2018.

Do you think men and women should be treated equally in the line of succession to the throne?

Should
Aged 18-24: 77%
Aged 25-49: 80%
Aged 50-64: 87%
Aged 65+: 94%

Should not
Aged 18-24: 7%
Aged 25-49: 5%
Aged 50-64: 8%
Aged 65+: 2%



Similar rules apply to most other hereditary titles in Britain, such as Dukes, Earls and Viscounts. Do you think the law should also be changed to given female children the same rights as male children to inherit titles?

Should be changed
Aged 18-24: 72%
Aged 25-49: 73%
Aged 50-64: 75%
Aged 65+: 84%

Should not be changed
Aged 18-24: 10%
Aged 25-49: 7%
Aged 50-64: 13%
Aged 65+: 6%
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  #762  
Old 07-22-2021, 09:45 PM
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Didn't Earl Spencer once remark that birth order was just as unfair as primogeniture?
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  #763  
Old 07-22-2021, 09:58 PM
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Primogeniture is inheritance by birth order, specifically by the eldest. He was remarking on male-only succession.
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  #764  
Old 07-23-2021, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
Primogeniture is inheritance by birth order, specifically by the eldest. He was remarking on male-only succession.
I realize that; but he meant that having his eldest daughter inherit everything was not really fair either.
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  #765  
Old 07-23-2021, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I realize that; but he meant that having his eldest daughter inherit everything was not really fair either.
That's what bugs me with gender-neutral successions - instead of discrimination by gender we change it around to discriminate by age. Either way some people are at a disadvantage caused by the circumstances regarding their birth so why not just leave things the way they are?
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  #766  
Old 07-23-2021, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I realize that; but he meant that having his eldest daughter inherit everything was not really fair either.
He went a bit further than that in his remark.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ing-place.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
That's what bugs me with gender-neutral successions - instead of discrimination by gender we change it around to discriminate by age.
Discrimination by birth order (not age, strictly speaking) is inbuilt into male-preference or male-only primogeniture. Prince Charles will succeed due to being the eldest son, not a younger son.

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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Either way some people are at a disadvantage caused by the circumstances regarding their birth so why not just leave things the way they are?
So all disadvantages caused by the circumstances regarding birth should be left the way they are?

You kindly shared with us the news of the marriage between Scottish noble Alastair Bruce and his husband Stephen Knott in the British Nobiity thread, and I had the impression that you had no problem with it. If disadvantages caused by gender had been left the way they were, they would never have had the opportunity to legally marry.
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  #767  
Old 07-25-2021, 02:41 AM
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Meghan could have been Duchess of Connaught.
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  #768  
Old 07-25-2021, 02:58 AM
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No she couldn't have been Duchess of Connaught.

Connaught is in the Republic of Ireland and there is no way that titles with place names in the republic will be granted again.

Where the title already exists it will continue but once a title related to a place name in the Republic of Ireland goes extinct it will remain extinct forever.
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  #769  
Old 07-27-2021, 01:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
That's what bugs me with gender-neutral successions - instead of discrimination by gender we change it around to discriminate by age. Either way some people are at a disadvantage caused by the circumstances regarding their birth so why not just leave things the way they are?
As things stand now, there’s discrimination based on both age and gender. Going from two to one form of discrimination seems like an improvement to me.

Also, a gender neutral preference for the first born child is discrimination based on luck (good or bad, depending on who’s talking). The firstborn child is like a winning lottery number; no one thinks a lottery winner is somehow inherently superior to everyone else who didn’t win.

Preference for the eldest son introduces the sort of discrimination that’s based on the assumption that males are naturally preferable and superior to females. It’s the sort of discrimination that leads parents to give birth to daughters and keep trying in the hope that something better comes along. This is the sort of discrimination that has no place in today’s world.
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  #770  
Old 08-08-2021, 04:27 PM
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Not sure if this is a silly question, but is it possible that another Royal Duchy could be created for the heir to the heir to the throne, when one exists, in the same way the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall do the same for the monarch and heir?
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  #771  
Old 08-08-2021, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Not sure if this is a silly question, but is it possible that another Royal Duchy could be created for the heir to the heir to the throne, when one exists, in the same way the Duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall do the same for the monarch and heir?
I am not aware of any legal reason it could not be done by Parliament, but if Parliament should ever conclude that the heir to the heir to the throne deserves an independent source of income, I imagine it would be far easier in this day and age to simply grant him an allowance.
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  #772  
Old 08-08-2021, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I am not aware of any legal reason it could not be done by Parliament, but if Parliament should ever conclude that the heir to the heir to the throne deserves an independent source of income, I imagine it would be far easier in this day and age to simply grant him an allowance.
True. The current set up is reliant on Charles financing William, who now has his own wife and 3 children. Charles had considerably more financial independence when he was a similar age.
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  #773  
Old 08-08-2021, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
I am not aware of any legal reason it could not be done by Parliament, but if Parliament should ever conclude that the heir to the heir to the throne deserves an independent source of income, I imagine it would be far easier in this day and age to simply grant him an allowance.
I think that would be the most workable solution. We have to remember that the duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster were established in the 14th century and have stayed intact since then. That kind of area with properties and holdings that would generate an income would be much harder to come by these days.
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  #774  
Old 08-08-2021, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
Meghan could have been Duchess of Connaught.
Who ever created that video must not know any history or geography
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  #775  
Old 08-08-2021, 05:52 PM
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Really!! It's simple world geography that the Republic of Ireland is where Connaught is and that it is *not* part of the UK or the Queen's realms where she could bestow a duchy on anyone for that area. Maybe more accurately would be for this author to supposition that Meghan may have been made the new Duchess of the District of Columbia. At least he'd had the person and the geological location in the same country.
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  #776  
Old 08-11-2021, 10:35 PM
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Would Princess Elizabeth get a peerage from Uncle Edward?

Had King Edward remained king, would Princess Elizabeth receive a peerage if she married Lt. Philip Mountbatten?

Would she have been known as Princess Elizabeth, Mrs Philip Mountbatten?
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  #777  
Old 08-11-2021, 11:55 PM
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Not in this reality. Women weren't granted hereditary peerages then and they aren't granted now.

If she married Philip while Edward was still king, she would have been Princess Elizabeth, Mrs. Mountbatten unless Edward created Philip The Duke of Edinburgh in which then she would have been known as Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh. In her father's reign, upon marriage, she was known as The Princess Elizabeth, Duchess of Edinburgh.
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  #778  
Old 08-11-2021, 11:55 PM
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She would likely be known Princess Philip of Greece and Denmark.
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  #779  
Old 08-12-2021, 02:40 AM
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As Queen Claude said, Philip probably wouldn't have been required to renounce his Greek titles if he hadn't been marrying the heir to another country's throne. Mountbatten was the Anglicised version of his mother's maiden name: he only adopted that once it became understood that he and Princess Elizabeth were going to marry.


However, unless Edward had still had no children, Elizabeth would have been in the direct line of succession anyway. In that case, things would probably have been as they were - Philip would have been Duke of Edinburgh, and they'd have been the Duke and Duchess of Edinburgh until her uncle died in 1972. I don't think she'd have been granted a peerage in her own right.


Queen Victoria was just Princess Victoria until she succeeded her uncle. The future Queen Anne was known as Princess George of Denmark until she succeeded her cousin/brother-in-law.
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  #780  
Old 08-12-2021, 05:21 AM
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Didn't prince Philip already use the Mountbatten surname in the Navy? That was well before even meeting Elizabeth.
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