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  #701  
Old 07-15-2021, 09:34 PM
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Well people talk about how Charles wants a slimmed down monarch and is being cautious of titles. If he doesn't even want his grandkids to have titles then why is anyone surprised he might not want the DoE title to be passed on generation after generations via Edward's line? Nothing seemed to be written in stone and provided Charles an out.

This was clearly leaked for a reason. Seems like they testing the reaction. I mean one can really argue you can't be for a slimmed down monarchy and then being upset when Charles starts actually doing it. It it is just unfortunate timing for Edward and I am sure it is slightly embarrassing, especially as he was recently talking about it.

But who knows what the future holds.
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  #702  
Old 07-15-2021, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Well people talk about how Charles wants a slimmed down monarch and is being cautious of titles. If he doesn't even want his grandkids to have titles then why is anyone surprised he might not want the DoE title to be passed on generation after generations via Edward's line? Nothing seemed to be written in stone and provided Charles an out.

This was clearly leaked for a reason. Seems like they testing the reaction. I mean one can really argue you can't be for a slimmed down monarchy and then being upset when Charles starts actually doing it. It it is just unfortunate timing for Edward and I am sure it is slightly embarrassing, especially as he was recently talking about it.

But who knows what the future holds.


I don’t see what a slimmed down monarchy has to do with granting his brother an additional title. He’s already HRH, an Earl, and a working member of the family. A title is already getting passed down. It’s whether it’s limited to an Earldom or includes a Dukedom.

Why wouldn’t he want DofE passed down? It’s not like HRH or being a working member of the family comes with it. It’s something his father wanted passed down. Through Edward. That’s it.

I don’t think it’s embarrassing for Edward. He never said it was set in stone either. He told the story about his father’s wish- which was already known anyway. He just elaborated on it.
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  #703  
Old 07-15-2021, 09:50 PM
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Yes, I take your point, ACO. However the earldom of Wessex will be handed down for generation after generation and that is also (while Edward lives) a royal peerage.

I agree that this has all the appearance of a fishing expedition to test the waters. However, what people are genuinely perturbed about is not the slimming down of the Monarchy but that the Dukedom of Edinburgh to go to Edward ‘in due time’, was announced as an agreement between Charles and his parents in 1999 and it now appears that Charles is reluctant to stick to that agreement in the future.


And the reasons for this (AFAWK) appear to be either petty jealousy of Edward and Sophie’s new image in the Press or that he wants to keep the Edinburgh title for himself, perhaps to distribute in the future to a grandson. None of this casts Charles in a very creditable light IMO.
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  #704  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
I don’t see what a slimmed down monarchy has to do with granting his brother a title. He’s already HRH, an Earl, and a working member of the family. A title is already getting passed down. It’s whether it’s limited to an Earldom or includes a Dukedom.

Why wouldn’t he want DofE passed down? It’s not like HRH or being a working member of the family comes with it. It’s something his father wanted passed down. Through Edward. That’s it.

I don’t think it’s embarrassing for Edward. He never said it was set in stone either. He told the story about his father’s wish- which was already known anyway. He just elaborated on it.
I don’t disagree but was more presenting what I heard discussed on Royal Confidential. Charles might want to have some control. Edward already has a title. He might feel it’s enough. The DoE title can stay in his line. Maybe that’s what he wants considering it now belongs to him.
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  #705  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:12 PM
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I don’t disagree but was more presenting what I heard discussed on Royal Confidential. Charles might want to have some control. Edward already has a title. He might feel it’s enough. The DoE title can stay in his line. Maybe that’s what he wants considering it now belongs to him.


Gotcha. But I don’t know why (if true) he thinks blatantly disrespecting his parents wishes is a good idea. This seems like such an obviously bad PR move. I don’t know why waters would even need to be tested on this issue. It would be a very very public showing of utter disregard and disrespect for his parents known wishes. And really something of a slap in the face to Edward imo.

Yes- Charles can do what he likes when he becomes king. Just because he can doesn’t mean he should though. This is not an issue I’d think it wise to be controlling on.
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  #706  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Well people talk about how Charles wants a slimmed down monarch and is being cautious of titles. If he doesn't even want his grandkids to have titles then why is anyone surprised he might not want the DoE title to be passed on generation after generations via Edward's line?
There has not been any talk of Prince Charles not wanting his grandchildren to have ducal titles. The rumors of "slimming down" titles have been limited to royal titles, i.e. HRH and Prince/Princess. There have been no suggestions that King Charles would want to interfere with the Duke of Sussex title being passed on to his grandson, and subsequently for generation after generation.
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  #707  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:24 PM
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I really believe that all this is just a tempest in a teapot. "No final decisions have been made" could reflect that, of course, Charles has his ideas and thoughts about what he wants his reign to be like and what he wants to implement but now is not the time for any kind of final decisions on matters. His mother is still very much alive and it *is* disrespectful to have everyone in an uproar about a reign that hasn't even happened yet. It, to me, almost sounds like Charles is plotting for his mother's death which we *know* he is not doing. Of course plans and ideas probably have been floated around for years just by looking at the "slimmed down" monarchy rumor.

I also don't see Charles being such a petty person that he thinks Edward and Sophie are getting too much press and attention either. Charles is a very astute man and is intelligent enough to realize that once he's King, he's going to *need* Edward and Sophie. Edward is the youngest child of the Queen and the DoE and with Andrew gone from public service and Anne getting up in age just like Charles is, he *is* going to need the support of his youngest brother and his wife.

My prediction is that Charles will happily create Edward The Duke of Edinburgh according to his parent's wishes. I see absolutely no truth in the "reports" saying otherwise.
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  #708  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I don’t disagree but was more presenting what I heard discussed on Royal Confidential. Charles might want to have some control. Edward already has a title. He might feel it’s enough. The DoE title can stay in his line. Maybe that’s what he wants considering it now belongs to him.

That might be the case.
I read somewhere that Charles would prefer to have that particular title (Duke of Edinburgh) reserved for his own grandson Louis.

(Don't know how accurate that is, but it wouldn't surprise me).
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  #709  
Old 07-15-2021, 10:43 PM
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I really believe that all this is just a tempest in a teapot. "No final decisions have been made" could reflect that, of course, Charles has his ideas and thoughts about what he wants his reign to be like and what he wants to implement but now is not the time for any kind of final decisions on matters. His mother is still very much alive and it *is* disrespectful to have everyone in an uproar about a reign that hasn't even happened yet. It, to me, almost sounds like Charles is plotting for his mother's death which we *know* he is not doing. Of course plans and ideas probably have been floated around for years just by looking at the "slimmed down" monarchy rumor.

You very well could be right. The Clarence House source released a similar statement about the articles revolving around Archie and Lili's future titles as well. HMQ is still alive and it is inappropriate to have such conversations right now. So I don't blame Charles whatsoever for not touching the topics now.

But we can't assume anything. There is a reason these articles have been leaked out.
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  #710  
Old 07-15-2021, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
That might be the case.

I read somewhere that Charles would prefer to have that particular title (Duke of Edinburgh) reserved for his own grandson Louis.



(Don't know how accurate that is, but it wouldn't surprise me).


I can understand that desire (if it is one) for Louis. It would be lovely- under different circumstances.

But it wasn’t Philip’s wish. He clearly wanted his title to go to Edward. I think, generally, he wanted one of his sons to get to USE his title. It was something he could pass down to one of his kids for their personal use. (I felt Edward hinted at that line of thinking when he pointed out that Andrew, technically, should have gotten it, but Philip missed the opportunity.)
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  #711  
Old 07-15-2021, 11:08 PM
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I daresay all you in the know about British titles will jump on me when i say that it might be a good idea for Royal Dukes to be held by HRHs only, and only their secondary title be carried on down their descendants. E.G. Edward would have DoE until he dies, James gets Earl of Wessex for himself and descendants, and EoE title goes back to the Crown until the next Royal DUke comes along...
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  #712  
Old 07-15-2021, 11:10 PM
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You very well could be right. The Clarence House source released a similar statement about the articles revolving around Archie and Lili's future titles as well. HMQ is still alive and it is inappropriate to have such conversations right now. So I don't blame Charles whatsoever for not touching the topics now.

I agree on that. Charles is right about all of it being inappropriate subject matter right now. DofE, future HRHs, etc.
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  #713  
Old 07-16-2021, 01:00 AM
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This discussion seems premature and perhaps media led.
If Edward were to become The Duke of Edinburgh, would Louise, as first born, inherit the title next?
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  #714  
Old 07-16-2021, 01:22 AM
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This discussion seems premature and perhaps media led.
If Edward were to become The Duke of Edinburgh, would Louise, as first born, inherit the title next?
Only if the remainder to the title states that a female can inherit or Parliament changes the peerage inheritance rules.
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  #715  
Old 07-16-2021, 02:33 AM
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There's also been a story in Vanity Fair and people like Victoria and Dickie Arbiter saying all of this is nonsense.

The best then would be if it would be officially denied by Clarence House.
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  #716  
Old 07-16-2021, 03:13 AM
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I was wondering if this doesnt show us who the sources of the royal experts are. Victoria and Dickie Arbiter talk to someone in the BP press room - which wouldn't be a stretch as that is where he used to work. BP is adamant that the title will go to Edward as it was promised by HM and you don't break that. They are also the ones that requested the Wessex's interviews. Edward and Sophie notable Edward didnt phone and request to the interviewed - that request came from the top and Edward needed his arm wrung to agree to it.
Richard Kay talks to someone at Clarence House where is it still up in the air and yep they won't talk about it until a sensible time after HM's death. The secret source the Times spoke to said completely no. Now although we dont know who sits on secret committee - it is reasonable to say that HM Private Secretary does as well as Charles, possibly even Williams. It seems more than likely that the houses are arguing about a few things in Charles's taskforce. Wonder what else is likely to leak.
Edward's comment about it had been a 'pipe-dream' and not a done deal in a recent interview with CNN tell me he knows it's gone.
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  #717  
Old 07-16-2021, 04:16 AM
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The best then would be if it would be officially denied by Clarence House.
Charles, though, over the years and explicitly refused to answer any questions about being King or his plans for his reign. The most he's said, I believe, is asking the questioner if he realized that in order to be King, his mother would have to die. He's not about to release anything through Clarence House about his future reign. Even being asked if Camilla would be Queen, the answer given is "we'll have to see won't we?"

I seriously believe that Charles has so much now on his plate as The Prince of Wales that he wants to accomplish still that he doesn't really have time to sit and think about wearing the crown and reigning and making changes. I don't think Charles has a revengeful nature either. Any decisions made *when the time comes* will be what he thinks is best for the monarchy.

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Edward's comment about it had been a 'pipe-dream' and not a done deal in a recent interview with CNN tell me he knows it's gone.
All I read into this is that Edward would find it an honor and a privilege to carry his father's Duke of Edinburgh title and carry on his work with the Duke of Edinburg Award that he's heavily involved in. Of course he knows its not a "done deal" but there's nothing really to indicate that it won't happen.
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  #718  
Old 07-16-2021, 04:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Charles, though, over the years and explicitly refused to answer any questions about being King or his plans for his reign. The most he's said, I believe, is asking the questioner if he realized that in order to be King, his mother would have to die. He's not about to release anything through Clarence House about his future reign. Even being asked if Camilla would be Queen, the answer given is "we'll have to see won't we?"

I seriously believe that Charles has so much now on his plate as The Prince of Wales that he wants to accomplish still that he doesn't really have time to sit and think about wearing the crown and reigning and making changes. I don't think Charles has a revengeful nature either. Any decisions made *when the time comes* will be what he thinks is best for the monarchy.



All I read into this is that Edward would find it an honor and a privilege to carry his father's Duke of Edinburgh title and carry on his work with the Duke of Edinburg Award that he's heavily involved in. Of course he knows its not a "done deal" but there's nothing really to indicate that it won't happen.
I don't believe the reports that Charles won't grant the Duke of Ediburgh dukedom onto Edward. The Queen and Prince Charles are in very unique situation - they are both elderly and the decision on the Dukedom of Edinburgh may have to be dealt with Prince William. Although it is unlikely, the possibility has been more of a reality since covid-19
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  #719  
Old 07-16-2021, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by sophie25 View Post
This is incredibly petty and dishonerable behaviour by the P of W IMO. [...].
Wow wow, come on, calm down... Nothing has happened at all and there is nothing Charles can do:

The Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of Wales have also agreed that The Prince Edward should be given the Dukedom of Edinburgh in due course, when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown.

The Queen is still alive. The title is inherited by Prince Charles, Duke of Edinburgh.

You are already crucifying Charles for something which has not happened and simply can not happen at all as long as the title has not been reverted to the Crown...
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  #720  
Old 07-16-2021, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Wow wow, come on, calm down... Nothing has happened at all and there is nothing Charles can do:

The Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of Wales have also agreed that The Prince Edward should be given the Dukedom of Edinburgh in due course, when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown.

The Queen is still alive. The title is inherited by Prince Charles, Duke of Edinburgh.

You are already crucifying Charles for something which has not happened and simply can not happen at all as long as the title has not been reverted to the Crown...
The Clarence House statement said nothing had been decided but it actually was decided at the time of Edward's wedding and Edward himself has spoken about his eventual succession to the title since then. The statement is raising a question mark over Edward becoming D of E that simply wasn't there before.
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