Royal Dukes, Royal Duchies and Royal Ducal Titles 1: Ending 2022 - Page 4

branchg · #61 11-16-2005, 08:10 PM

I believe his full royal styles are HRH The Prince of Hanover, Duke of Brunswick-Luneburg, Prince of Great Britian and Ireland. In Germany, legally, he is simply Ernst-August, Prince von Hannover.

In the UK, he would be HRH Prince Ernst-August von Hannover, assuming the Queen recognized his rank as a Royal Highness as an extended member of the royal family (which is likely).

Lady Marmalade · #62 11-16-2005, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by branchg

Yes, he would. Ernst-August's father successfully won British citizenship by petitioning the High Courts under the Sophia Naturalization Act. After this legal victory, he also issued a royal decree that all members of the Hanover Royal House would continue to be styled as "Prince/Princess of Great Britian and Ireland".

Of course, this has no legal standing in the UK, but the Queen has not objected to the Hanovers using their British styles as descendants of King George III.

How sad....I hope the Queen and then Charles never allow them again to use their titles or recognize them as citizens.

**Zonk** · #63 11-16-2005, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

How sad....I hope the Queen and then Charles never allow them again to use their titles or recognize them as citizens.

Lady Marmalade...just curious on why you wouldn't the Queen or Prince Charles to use their titles or recognize them as citizens.

Lady Marmalade · #64 11-16-2005, 11:47 PM

Because that would open many cans of worms that do not need to be opened and are best left in the past.

Not trying to be disrespectful, just minful of the past.

I guess I should clarify as well, that it is nothing personal. I just feel the Queen has done the right thing by never bringing this issue up.

The British Royals have tried so hard to shake off the "germanism" from them and one little thing could stir it up....look what happened when Harry wore that arm-band...out came all the old stories regarding the ties to the German royals and Edward III's ties to Hitler...

hillary_nugent · #65 11-17-2005, 12:03 AM

How many dukedoms are there? =]

**Zonk** · #66 11-17-2005, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

Because that would open many cans of worms that do not need to be opened and are best left in the past.

Not trying to be disrespectful, just minful of the past.

I guess I should clarify as well, that it is nothing personal. I just feel the Queen has done the right thing by never bringing this issue up.

The British Royals have tried so hard to shake off the "germanism" from them and one little thing could stir it up....look what happened when Harry wore that arm-band...out came all the old stories regarding the ties to the German royals and Edward III's ties to Hitler...

Good Point. Besides if she gives it to him...that could open the floodgates.

Lady Marmalade · #67 11-17-2005, 12:22 AM

Yes..that is what I meant...hope I did not cause offense to anyone.

branchq..thank you for all your explanations today. They have certainly helped. :)

branchg · #68 11-17-2005, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

How sad....I hope the Queen and then Charles never allow them again to use their titles or recognize them as citizens.

Well, that seems very unfair, doesn't it? Should every Hanover be punished for every generation for mistakes made in the past? Remember Philip's sisters all married into German princely families, including Princess George of Hanover.

World War I ended a long time ago and the past is the past.

Lady Marmalade · #69 11-17-2005, 12:28 AM

Excuse me...if you read further along you will see I clarified my point!

And no, I do not. The Queen is the Queen who is British..no need to tie the german link in...you are right in that respect...the past is the past..

And as for some of Prince Philip's former brothers-in-law...may they rot in......for what they participated in during WWII...

And as another point...none were invited to his wedding for precisely those reasons...

Mapple · #70 11-17-2005, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillary_nugent

How many dukedoms are there? =]

In the UK there are thirty-four Dukedoms held by twenty-nine Dukes.

**Marengo** · #71 11-17-2005, 04:58 AM

- Abercorn
- Argyll
- Atholl
- Beaufort
- Bedford
- Buccleugh & Queensburry
- Cornwall & Rothersey (PoW)
- Devonshire
- Edinburgh
- Fife
- Gloucester
- Grafton
- Hamilton & Brandon
- Kent
[- Lancaster (queen)]
- Leinster
- Manchester
- Marlborough
- Montrose
- Norfolk
- Northumberland
- Richmond & Lennox & Gordon
- Roxburghe
- Rutland
- Somerset
- St.Albans
- Sutherland
- Wellington
- Westminster
- York

Is this the complete list? I compiled the list with the online Gotha.

And from wikipedia the extinct dukedoms:

A question: How was the remaining Bentinck family ably to receive the earldom of Portland from their relatives but NOT the dukedom? Are there different rules for inheriting an earldom and a dukedom?

Mapple · #72 11-17-2005, 05:01 AM

Thank you very much! I believe it is complete; I'm not counting the Dukedom of Lancaster as it merged into the Crown in 1399.

Mapple · #73 11-17-2005, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marengo

....A question: How was the remaining Bentinck family ably to receive the earldom of Portland from their relatives but NOT the dukedom? Are there different rules for inheriting an earldom and a dukedom?

I don't think so, in case of Portland. The 2nd Earl was made the 1st Duke, and now there are living lineal descendants of the 1st Earl whose line of male descent is unbroken, but not of the 2nd Earl and 1st Duke.

**Marengo** · #74 11-17-2005, 05:15 AM

ok, so only descendants of dukes can inherit the dukedom. Then I have another question, the dukedom of Fife was inherited through the female line. Why couldn't the other, now extinct dukedoms be inherited this way? In the Portland case: I believe the mother of the late Queen Mother was a Portland for example, so why couldn't she 'get' the dukedom, like HH Princess Alexandra (or the descendants of HH Princess Maud) did?

Mapple · #75 11-17-2005, 05:42 AM

Marengo
The manner of inheriting the British peerages is determined by letters patent issued on the creation of the peerage. The usual remainder is "heirs male of his body".

The Dukedom of Fife was created in 1887 with the standard remainder. However, when a birth of the male heir became highly unlikely, the Duke of Fife was created the Duke of Fife again in 1900, this time with a special remainder to his daughters and then to the male heirs of his daughters.

Thus upon the death of the Duke in 1912 the 1887 creation became extinct, but the 1900 creation lives on.

**Marengo** · #76 11-17-2005, 07:16 AM

Thanks Mapple, has a simular arrangement been made for Lady Saltoun? Will her eldest daughter be able to inherit the title? And I assume for Countess Patricia Mountbatten of Burma as well...

BTW Wikipedia did not mention 'Berwick' as etinct so I assume we can add that one to the list of dukedoms, presently hold by the Duchess of Alba.

Mapple · #77 11-17-2005, 07:34 AM

Marengo
As for Lady Saltoun, no. A lot of peerages, mainly ancient ones, devolve to heirs general and not heirs male, much like the crown of the United Kingdom. There is also a whole concept of abeyance in England (not in Scotland, IIRC).

The title of Mountbatten was created with a special remainder.

The Dukedom of Berwick-upon-Tweed is generally thought to be attainted in 1690, although there is some controversy regarding whether the attainder was carried out properly. The Jacobites, of course, recognise the Berwick title.

Warren · #78 11-17-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Marmalade

But, in the Court Circular, he would only be listed as HRH Prince Ernst August of Hanover, right?

Sorry for interruping the flow on Dukes, but If I could just be a pedant for a moment, my guess is that Ernst August would be listed as HRH The Prince of Hanover, and Caroline as HRH The Princess of Hanover.

Mapple · #79 11-17-2005, 10:15 AM

Warren
Why?

Lady Marmalade · #80 11-17-2005, 10:17 AM

Ahh...that makes more sense. Thank you Warren.

The Duke of Leeds and Portland were just extinct in the past few years (I mean like 15-20)...if memory serves.

Some of those extinct dukedoms are now marquessants, i.e. Marquess of Hereford...