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  #1601  
Old 03-27-2020, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Its also very possible that we're blurring the lines between a personal relationship and a professional one. A lot of the "rift" rumors seem, to me, to stem from differences of opinion and perhaps disagreeing on how to move the "Firm" into the future with both Harry and William settling into their full time royal roles. Its like a catalyst event similar to siblings disagreeing on which tie their father should be buried in. As time passes and the stages of grief pass, everything goes back to normal once again.

We really don't know what these people's relationship with each other on a personal level is. I do agree with them not being super tight group as all of them have very busy day planners with the work they do, their own family and their own circles of friends so they don't gather together that often. Andrew was quoted as saying this in Robert Hardman's book, "Our Queen".

Emotions and tensions were probably in overdrive with the recent developments with the Sussexes but, like the stages of grief, as time passes, things may return to being more on an even keel as everyone reaches acceptance of what is.
The rift reports had to do with Harry feeling like William didn’t support his relationship with Meghan (many accounts had William suggesting that his brother take it slow). Harry being upset with his father would be more about his feeling not valued - for instance, with the fact that Charles agreed with HM that H and M should not have their own “court” at Windsor. Everyone in the BRF, as with all of us, have their own specific relationships with each other. Naturally they are all too busy to truly spend much time with each other, but that doesn’t mean that they can’t be closer to some than others - just like ordinary people.

Charles’ relationships with his sons seem to have had ups and downs, but that’s natural given everything that has happened in their lives - and it’s just a natural thing to happen between parents and children. I don’t think it’s a big leap to say that a scary situation like their father being sick with a dangerous virus would put everything in perspective and start to heal some wounds. Already it appears that William and Charles had grown closer in the last months. This all doesn’t mean that William and Harry have to be BFFs, but it does mean that they can forge a new relationship. They’ve always loved each other no matter what, and that’s all that matters.

I agree with your last paragraph. Also, I think maybe that this period had given the individuals a chance to talk and start to understand each other again.
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  #1602  
Old 03-27-2020, 05:13 PM
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I don't think Andrew's relationship with his siblings can be compared to William and Harry's relationship with each other. There is a much smaller age gap, they share a very defining moment, Harry spoke about how it was his brother who encouraged him to seek mental health, and they have (or had) lots of friends in common. So, while of course each had their own life. Until a few years ago, it was clear that they were rather close; unfortunately, that is no longer the case.
Im not so sure.. I was surprised to read that when Harry was asked about Kate, when Will got engaged to her, he said he was looking forward to getting to know her. Which suggests that he wasn't meeting up with his brother and K all that frequently...Not that they were not loving brothers, but even some years ago, im not sure they were that close.
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  #1603  
Old 03-27-2020, 05:18 PM
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I don't think Andrew's relationship with his siblings can be compared to William and Harry's relationship with each other. There is a much smaller age gap, they share a very defining moment, Harry spoke about how it was his brother who encouraged him to seek mental health, and they have (or had) lots of friends in common. So, while of course each had their own life. Until a few years ago, it was clear that they were rather close; unfortunately, that is no longer the case.
Were they close or did they appear that way because that is what the media and the palace wanted it to look like? We have had plenty things over the years that suggest they really weren't that close. And seeing your brother troubled and wanting to help doesn't mean you are close. It just means you love your brother. These people aren't enemies but it is pretty clear they knew their role and played along but overall I doubt the family are as close as people think. And the more stories of "[Insert royals] are now closer than ever" just cements it more.
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  #1604  
Old 03-27-2020, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Were they close or did they appear that way because that is what the media and the palace wanted it to look like? We have had plenty things over the years that suggest they really weren't that close. And seeing your brother troubled and wanting to help doesn't mean you are close. It just means you love your brother. These people aren't enemies but it is pretty clear they knew their role and played along but overall I doubt the family are as close as people think. And the more stories of "[Insert royals] are now closer than ever" just cements it more.
William and Harry lived together for about 20 years altogether, and were neighbors for several more years after that. We canít begin to know if they were/are close, but it certainly looks like they were/are.

So, yes, they did appear to be close, probably because they were; no need to play along with some imaginary scenario.
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  #1605  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
William and Harry lived together for about 20 years altogether, and were neighbors for several more years after that. We canít begin to know if they were/are close, but it certainly looks like they were/are.

So, yes, they did appear to be close, probably because they were; no need to play along with some imaginary scenario.
Itís fine to be skeptical, but IMO thereís such a thing as being too much so...Just my opinion. I donít see any reason to doubt W and Hís closeness. It just seems like no one wants to ever believe anything the media says, so if they reporter the sky is blue, people would argue that. This is a circular argument - we didnít live with them, so we donít have personal proof, so no one can say exactly their relationship. I choose to believe the many accounts and reports; itís fine if others donít, but itís impossible to debate.
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  #1606  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:13 PM
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Im not so sure.. I was surprised to read that when Harry was asked about Kate, when Will got engaged to her, he said he was looking forward to getting to know her. Which suggests that he wasn't meeting up with his brother and K all that frequently...Not that they were not loving brothers, but even some years ago, im not sure they were that close.
I also remember that and thought it odd since Kate dated William for so long.

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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
William and Harry lived together for about 20 years altogether, and were neighbors for several more years after that. We canít begin to know if they were/are close, but it certainly looks like they were/are.

So, yes, they did appear to be close, probably because they were; no need to play along with some imaginary scenario.
Hardly imaginary. I agree we don't know (nor should we, it is none of our business) but let's also not act like optics aren't a major thing for this family. We have seen how it has played a role over the years. People will agree to disagree but I don't think in recent years the brothers appeared as close as some claim.
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  #1607  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:16 PM
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It's not odd that the Cambridges dated for a long while IMO. Some people just take longer to find the "right" time to marry, and other couples prefer not to marry at all but are just like any regular married couple. Just because two people don't marry right away doesn't mean they have a bad relationship.
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  #1608  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
It's not odd that the Cambridges dated for a long while IMO. Some people just take longer to find the "right" time to marry, and other couples prefer not to marry at all but are just like any regular married couple. Just because two people don't marry right away doesn't mean they have a bad relationship.
Its not odd that they dated for a long time.. it is that Harry claimed he was only going to get to kow Kate when Will got engaged.. You would think if he was really close to his brother he would have gottne to know his girilfrend during the long courtship.
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  #1609  
Old 03-27-2020, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Itís fine to be skeptical, but IMO thereís such a thing as being too much so...Just my opinion. I donít see any reason to doubt W and Hís closeness. It just seems like no one wants to ever believe anything the media says, so if they reporter the sky is blue, people would argue that. This is a circular argument - we didnít live with them, so we donít have personal proof, so no one can say exactly their relationship. I choose to believe the many accounts and reports; itís fine if others donít, but itís impossible to debate.
but stoires are very contradictory. They were very close. They've had a big rift. now it is all made up? I think there was a definite tension at the Commonwealth service.. and I have my theories about that...
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  #1610  
Old 03-27-2020, 07:49 PM
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but stoires are very contradictory. They were very close. They've had a big rift. now it is all made up? I think there was a definite tension at the Commonwealth service.. and I have my theories about that...
How is this contradictory? They were very close......then, if it's to be believed (and I do), Harry felt that William didn't support his relationship with Meghan, he got upset at his brother, and they fell out. Sadly, these things happen in many families. What I object to are quotes saying "their relationship will never be the same". THAT is overly dramatic. Never is a long time - and wounds heal. Reports were that they had closed the breach somewhat at the Sandringham summit, but then when Harry and Meghan were not included in the procession at the Commonwealth service, Harry was reportedly upset that his brother and Kate WERE included. My point in posting that article was that many times crises bring people together -and I believe that's what happened. We all have our opinions, though.
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  #1611  
Old 03-31-2020, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
How is this contradictory? They were very close......then, if it's to be believed (and I do), Harry felt that William didn't support his relationship with Meghan, he got upset at his brother, and they fell out. Sadly, these things happen in many families. What I object to are quotes saying "their relationship will never be the same". THAT is overly dramatic. Never is a long time - and wounds heal. Reports were that they had closed the breach somewhat at the Sandringham summit, but then when Harry and Meghan were not included in the procession at the Commonwealth service, Harry was reportedly upset that his brother and Kate WERE included. My point in posting that article was that many times crises bring people together -and I believe that's what happened. We all have our opinions, though.
I woudlnt' believe all i'd read in the papers... and I think that from what I saw of the Commonwealth service, it looked a bit cool between the 2 couples. So i'd say that the limited evidence shows that they hadn't closed the breach if tehre was one and that relations were cooler than usual.. Now if the couple have moved to LA, I don't think that that's going to look too good to some royals.
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  #1612  
Old 04-02-2020, 07:47 PM
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I do believe there is a serious rift between William and Harry. But I don't think it's permanent or beyond repair. Their intrinsic bond is strong. The core is deep. They will find their way back to each other.

Bertie and David never found their way back to each other, but I believe with all my heart that it was FELT between them. Bertie knew. David knew. They knew each other. So it is with William and Harry. They know each other. Deep down. And it's a question of when they are ready to admit it.
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  #1613  
Old 04-02-2020, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by iradavidovna View Post
I do believe there is a serious rift between William and Harry. But I don't think it's permanent or beyond repair. Their intrinsic bond is strong. The core is deep. They will find their way back to each other.

Bertie and David never found their way back to each other, but I believe with all my heart that it was FELT between them. Bertie knew. David knew. They knew each other. So it is with William and Harry. They know each other. Deep down. And it's a question of when they are ready to admit it.
Bertie and David were once close, but I'm not sure it was ever healthy. Bertie worshipped David to make up for his own perceived shortcomings, and when David broke that pedestal, it broke hard. Can we go into past BRF here?

Harry has now dumped some on his brother. Not nearly as much and not in quite the same manner. We don't know the dynamics of their relationship, so all we can do is see how things play out.
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  #1614  
Old 04-05-2020, 04:49 AM
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They appeared everywhere together when they were younger, then as in all families change happens, one brother goes to university in Scotland , the other is still at school then joins the army.
Other than holidays, maybe not even then,they do not see as much of each other. That is not any different to lots of families.
It has also been documented that William spent a great deal of time with the Middleton family.
Even when they all stayed within KP, Harry was a single man, leading a different lifestyle to his married brother with a wife and family.

Separation does not reduce the love or closeness of a family it just limits the physical contact.

And with all families, sometimes what starts off as a perceived slight, or a disagreement over something relatively small, it snowballs out of control, pride then takes over and nobody wants to be the one to make the first move.
Another point is that your wife becomes your best friend, your brother goes down the list of who you need to consider first.
I just wish them all well.
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  #1615  
Old 04-05-2020, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by iradavidovna View Post
I do believe there is a serious rift between William and Harry. But I don't think it's permanent or beyond repair. Their intrinsic bond is strong. The core is deep. They will find their way back to each other.

Bertie and David never found their way back to each other, but I believe with all my heart that it was FELT between them. Bertie knew. David knew. They knew each other. So it is with William and Harry. They know each other. Deep down. And it's a question of when they are ready to admit it.
What was "felt" between them? THey probably always had some affection for each other, but David was bitter against his family, including his mother, for their rejecting him as he saw it. I don't think he ever really forgave them. He and Wallis were pretty much negative against the BRF because they felt that they were unfairly treated. And Bertie also felt badly let down by his brother and never quite got over it.

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Originally Posted by Hallo girl View Post
They appeared everywhere together when they were younger, then as in all families change happens, one brother goes to university in Scotland , the other is still at school then joins the army.
Other than holidays, maybe not even then,they do not see as much of each other. That is not any different to lots of families.
It has also been documented that William spent a great deal of time with the Middleton family.
Even when they all stayed within KP, Harry was a single man, leading a different lifestyle to his married brother with a wife and family.

Separation does not reduce the love or closeness of a family it just limits the physical contact.


I just wish them all well.
The thing is, in olden days, Royal families were kind of forced into being close in a way. Only other royals were tehir equals, so they had to be each other's best friends. Of course they had their ups and downs, but the situation that no one else knew what it was to be Royal probably caused closer relationships among royals. However in today's world, its different. Royals do ordinary jobs, they mix with a wider variety of people, class wise and so relationships form. They meet with people that they would never have gotten to know, 50 or 60 years ago.

Years ago, people marrying into the RF were expected to be with them during festivals like Christmas, and not visit their own families. Now that's changed. William spent a lot of time with the Middletons and probably found them pleasantly informal... and even now, he probalby spends as much time with his in laws as he does with the RF.
Harry was outside that relationship, and had his own friends. He loved William but spent less time with him. When Kate married WIlliam, I think they spent a bit more time together for a while but Harry and Will are freer to find their own circles of friends than was the case 40 years ago.
Perhaps Harry felt a bit excluded if he was hanging out with his brother and his brother's wife and kids... He wanted to find a woman he could settle down with.. who would be his best friend.. and he found her.. but she didn't settle in the UK and now they have moved away. Possibly Will is upset by this or a bit resentful at being left with the royal duties that Harry has walked out on. Perhaps Meghan after the first few meetings, didn't take to the RF as a whole or they didn't take to her and its caused tension.
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  #1616  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:16 PM
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It is not an anti-Charles post. However, Charles has not shied away from throwing William and Harry under the bus to get good press for himself and Camilla. It is not inconceivable to imagine that Charles might get pissed at things like this and cut them off financially
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His PR man Mark Bolland is reputed to have been pretty ruthless in tyring to get good publicity for Charles....
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Originally Posted by HighGoalHighDreams View Post
Betsy, as someone who shares your generally positive view of Charles, this has been well established. Mark Bolland went public with a number of examples after he left working for Charles. I don't want to take the thread off topic, but feel free to PM me if you want to discuss.
I've brought these comments over here as it seems most appropriate, I'm not aware of a Henry and William relationship thread with their father.

I've done a quick google search on the topic, and can't come up with any information on the "throwing under the bus" Charles asked Bolland to do, particular in relation to his sons.
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  #1617  
Old 05-22-2020, 03:26 PM
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I'm sure it was Mark Bolland who admitted leaking to the press that the Wessexes has said something like "we walked through the park to give pleasure to the people" when they walked over from BP to St James' for a meeting after Edward's company were caught trying to film William at university.

Given that the comment would have been made, presumably, to a small gathering of family and the most senior staff it may explain some of Charles' relationships with his siblings and other family members over time. Bolland was good at making his master look good but too often at the detriment of other family members.
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  #1618  
Old 05-22-2020, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
William and Harry lived together for about 20 years altogether, and were neighbors for several more years after that. We canít begin to know if they were/are close, but it certainly looks like they were/are.

So, yes, they did appear to be close, probably because they were; no need to play along with some imaginary scenario.
They didn't live together for all that long at all.

They lived together for the first six years of Harry's life and then William was away at boarding school for about 40 weeks a year. Harry joined him at that boarding school for three years but as someone who has been at boarding school I can assure that they wouldn't have had much to do with each other there as each boy would have spent their days with their own year group and not with siblings.

William was 12 when he went to Eton so only two years at Ludgrove together and Harry was an extra year at Ludgrove so they weren't together all that long at Eton (again two years).

William was then on his gap year while Harry was at Eton and then William was a uni while Harry took his nearly two year gap years.

The next time they 'lived' together was at Sandhurst for about 12 weeks before Harry was off into the army to serve while William finished his course. They didn't even serve together, even though in the same unit.

Basically from the time William turned 8 they saw each other for about 12 weeks a year while on holidays and not much more than that.
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  #1619  
Old 05-22-2020, 11:04 PM
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There have been plenty of articles as well as stories in biographies of Charles and William and Harry about Mark Bolland's work, in getting the British public to accept Camilla for example. After William's first meeting alone with Camilla following his mother's death, the occasion was leaked to the tabloids and reportedly William felt 'used'. There would have been no leak from Bolland without Charles's knowledge and presumably approval. The stories on this are still there online.

There have also been a number of press reports about how Charles dealt with tabloid reports about Harry's so-called drugs use as a teenager, and how Charles, set up by Bolland as the model of an exemplary anxious father, took Harry on a day visit to a rehab facility after he found out. The Press later disclosed that the visit had taken place months before. That was Bolland's work and Harry was left feeling hurt by his father allowing that story to be given to the Press. Those stories are still there.

Bolland was extremely close to some tabloid editors, including Rebekah Brookes, to the extent that he and his partner holidayed in France with Rebekah and hers.

https://www.bylineinvestigates.com/m...arry-stitch-up
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  #1620  
Old 05-23-2020, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
The rift reports had to do with Harry feeling like William didnít support his relationship with Meghan (many accounts had William suggesting that his brother take it slow).
Found this 'interesting' old report in our 'beloved' DailyMail from 2007
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nion-Kate.html
Quote:
Harry 'fears Wills will rush to wed' after reunion with Kate
By REBECCA ENGLISH

Last updated at 12:56 07 July 2007

Friends of Prince William are worried he has rekindled his romance with Kate Middleton only because he feels under pressure to find a suitable wife.
Among those to express concern is younger brother Harry, who is said to be desperately worried that William will do something "rash".

[...]

"Harry has said - in his own, unique way - that his brother has made a big mistake 'dogging back to Kate'. He thinks William is being weak and going for the easy option. At least two wellbred girls have been seriously touted as future royal brides of late but quickly made it clear that they wouldn't countenance it. Kate, however, is very much available.

"It may sound rather harsh, but he has openly admitted in the past that he wasn't sure she was 'the one' and none of us can see how anything has dramatically changed."
Isn't it funny that 10 years later the same tabloids rehash the same headline only to swap the said brothers' names? I wonder whether those tabloids basically have some sort of 'templates of royal drama' and then just change the names overtime to make 'new report'.
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