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  #1161  
Old 12-28-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
I haven't been following all posts in this forum, but where did those stories about William questioning Meghan's suitability come from ? Any factual evidence ?
The main story was likely this story by Emily Andrews in The Sun, https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/792791...ate-middleton/ where "a well-placed source" was quoted that William, after being introduced to Meghan, sat Harry down to express concerns and Harry did not take it well and "the brothers’ relationship has not really recovered".

William did not really know Meghan, and this story does not seem to be about William having specific issues with Meghan, but wanting Harry "to take it slowly".
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  #1162  
Old 12-28-2018, 08:26 AM
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OK. So now I know the synopsis of a Sun's reporter's take on what happened. I think any one of us could jump in and state a gazillion different "takes" on this kind of thing and every one of us could be getting it all wrong.

OK. So my take on what could have happened is totally different than Andrews. I don't think William would have sat down with Harry and expressed concerns in a tete-a-tete but it would come out in an open conversation with both Harry and Meghan. If these couples did get together frequently before the engagement as I surmised a few posts ago, most likely they all regaled Meghan with stories of the pitfalls, the mistakes made and other anecdotes that would give Meghan a clear picture of what royal life in the fishbowl is *really* like. The good times, the bad times and the ugly all rolled into stories about coping with the life and what she could expect should she decide to "take Harry on" and his lifestyle along with him. Harry, himself, has even expressed verbally what an onus the lifestyle was in finding someone to be his partner for life.

Sure there were concerns but I think the concerns were more to enhance the relationship between Harry and Meghan because knowledge is power and knowing what one is getting into helps for a wise decision when it comes to marriage. I believe that when the time came and Meghan said "yes", she did it with her eyes wide open knowing just what she was committing to for life and obviously, she felt Harry was well worth that commitment.

She also most likely found out that no matter what happened (and a lot happened since the engagement), she had a strong support system not only in Harry but also in Harry's family. Perhaps this is what Harry was referring to at Christmastime 2016 with the statement that Meghan has "the family she never had". The all for one and one for all kind of thing that wasn't present in Meghan's life up until she became involved as part of the BRF.

To me, its totally strange how much difference there is between Christmas 2017 and 2018. From total acceptance into a warm family to nothing but reports of family feuding in the style of the Hatfields and McCoys. It just reinforces my belief that someone, somewhere, is playing fast and loose with "palace sources" to promote their own narratives.
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  #1163  
Old 12-28-2018, 08:34 AM
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Harry and William are extremely close and Harry already let us know how supportive the family has been to him and Meghan during their courtship. For some reason that’s not enough for some people.
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  #1164  
Old 12-28-2018, 08:34 AM
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Osipi-your last paragraph says exactly why I have trouble believing this narrative of a long standing rift between the brothers.
If it occurred more than two years ago, it would have been there Christmas 2017 as well as Christmas 2018.
And Harry & Meghan were already engaged Christmas 2017 so any counseling of Harry by William to “take the relationship slow” was long before, if it even happened. But things were great Christmas 2017?
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  #1165  
Old 12-28-2018, 08:36 AM
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Here’s my issue with this. Let’s say this conversation did happen between the brothers. They are obviously not going to have the conversation in front of others. Who would they tell that would then become this source? I mean this isn’t as if they got into it at the office over something. Both brothers are notoriously private. They’ve even planted stories to see who they can and cannot trust among their friends. So I’m really hesitant to believe that they’d spilling their guts to anyone about this. They are all adults, and living in this fishbowl, they don’t need to whine about their sibling because they had a fight.

And then subsequently, how do they know they’ve never recovered from it? William was Harry’s best man at the wedding when he could’ve easily forego that step as Meghan decided not to have a maid/matron of honor. Unless one of them has been saying I can’t love my brother the same since then, I’m baffled by how it’s not the same? Are they more serious? Meh, I’ve seen them joke around with each other still. William certainly was tagging along, while Kate was on maternity leave, at events he attended with Meghan and Harry. He greeted Meghan pretty warmly as they arrive at WA for ANZAC and then all three rode together to Queen’s birthday concert. We saw a brief photo from pretty far away where Meghan was sitting in the middle in the backseat with William and Harry on each side. So it seems to me that while some things are changing, there are things that haven’t. It’s just hard to have things like that when it’s more people. Like it was easy for Harry to hitch a ride with his brother to Queen’s Christmas lunch when he’s a bachelor. Kate just squeezed in the backseat with George and Charlotte. But then now Harry has a wife, and eventually children of his own, it just becomes easier to do this separately. Does that they are not as close as they used to be? They are certainly not spending that time together or have to spend time coordinating with each other, but it’s more of natural progression as Harry and Meghan create their own family than any rift.

The brother are part of the Wales neuclus family until they grow up and have their own neuclus family. Then the two families do become extended families even though the brothers are still brothers. Their daily lives is now surrounded by their new family rather than the family they grew up with. It’s normal. All that proves is that the royals are just like us. I’m sure they are still there for each other when needed, and given that they work together, it’s more often than others. But they all have their focus elsewhere now.
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  #1166  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Osipi-your last paragraph says exactly why I have trouble believing this narrative of a long standing rift between the brothers.
If it occurred more than two years ago, it would have been there Christmas 2017 as well as Christmas 2018.
And Harry & Meghan were already engaged Christmas 2017 so any counseling of Harry by William to “take the relationship slow” was long before, if it even happened. But things were great Christmas 2017?
The thing is no one knows those intimate talks between William and Harry about Harry’s courtship with Meghan. So I really don’t think people should get sucked into believing those reports on William giving Harry warnings. What we do know that William and rest of the family were/still is supportive of the couple. How we know this? Because the couple told us from their very mouths in their engagement interview. That’s all the proof we should need, IMO.
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  #1167  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The thing is no one knows those intimate talks between William and Harry about Harry’s courtship with Meghan. So I really don’t think people should get sucked into believing those reports on William giving Harry warnings. What we do know that William and rest of the family were/still is supportive of the couple. How we know this? Because the couple told us from their very mouths in their engagement interview. That’s all the proof we shouldn’t need, IMO.
Absolutely. The rub is that we're a sponge of a different color than most of the general public. We actively absorb everything there is to know and have done so with Harry and Meghan's relationship practically from Day 1. For the most part, the general public may have a passing interest and some not paying attention at all to the couple until the royal wedding was in their faces everywhere they went.

It is easy to see how those that don't really know about or care about this couple or the BRF could easily buy into anything printed as gospel truth. They trust the "royal reporter" to know what they're talking about and if a "royal reporter" says it is so, then its come from the horse's mouth and people react to it as if it happened right in front of them.

That's the downside of having the "middle man" playing a game of telephone with royal related events that are strictly part of their private lives. Its rare that these stories are ever refuted because the only real "truth" lies with the royals involved and they don't care to play the game. They've better things to do with their time.
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  #1168  
Old 12-28-2018, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Absolutely. The rub is that we're a sponge of a different color than most of the general public. We actively absorb everything there is to know and have done so with Harry and Meghan's relationship practically from Day 1. For the most part, the general public may have a passing interest and some not paying attention at all to the couple until the royal wedding was in their faces everywhere they went.

It is easy to see how those that don't really know about or care about this couple or the BRF could easily buy into anything printed as gospel truth. They trust the "royal reporter" to know what they're talking about and if a "royal reporter" says it is so, then its come from the horse's mouth and people react to it as if it happened right in front of them.

That's the downside of having the "middle man" playing a game of telephone with royal related events that are strictly part of their private lives. Its rare that these stories are ever refuted because the only real "truth" lies with the royals involved and they don't care to play the game. They've better things to do with their time.
Yes, we rely on the royal reporters and correspondents a lot. But folks should know how to be very careful in believing the reports of extreme intimate details of private conversations between the royals. The royal family are close and private, so no knows their “pillow talks.” Harry and Meghan already let us know how welcoming the family has been to them and their courtship.
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  #1169  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:11 AM
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https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...-a3703981.html

Here's a piece by Tom Bradby from way back when the engagement was announced. It talks about how those around Harry viewed Meghan. It also talks about Cambridges. I'd take his word far more than EA's.
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  #1170  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:38 AM
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Listening to the royal reporters is a weird balancing act, because while they frequently (mostly?) get things wrong, often enough they get just enough right that completely ignoring them isn't an option for dedicated royal watchers. The most famous example of this is the rumors and gossip that went on for years about Charles and Diana, which turned out to largely be true, although some of the details were off the mark.

So, while I tend to shrug off the majority of the current nonsense, it's possible that there might be a very faint thread of something that the reporters heard about from a source that has then been embroidered and added to until it doesn't have much connection to reality. If William and Harry had a disagreement over something to do with their foundation, especially one that involved raised voices, that could have become the so-called rift, when in reality it was just two brothers having a vigorous discussion about something they both feel strongly about.
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  #1171  
Old 12-28-2018, 10:59 AM
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The truth is that family is family. The royal family aren’t that different than our families. They have their share of private ups and down too. It’s just Press was always going to put out this narrative of an inner-conflict between these two power couples. You could pretty write the future headlines just as soon as Harry and Meghan announced their engagement. There’s this hunger to make it seem like there’s not enough room for the Cambridge’s and Sussex’s to co-exist with each other on the royal stage. There’s gotta be this couple vs this couple.

We’ve been down this royal road before back in the 80’s and 90’s. I just wonder if this was done to Elizabeth & Philip and Margaret & Tony? Albert & Elizabeth and the Kent’s and Gloucester’s?
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  #1172  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:22 AM
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The thing we all need to remember, though, is that the royal family is still a family and like any family they will have their ups and downs and disagreements and life will at times be wonderful and at other times not so wonderful. In accordance with them being just like any other family there will always be those within the family that naturally gravitate toward each other and those that just don't click as well. That's not only human nature but the nature of families. That said, some of the royal family will adore Meghan and some just simply won't. And that's ok, too. Whether the Cambridges fall in the group that adores her, the group that simply tolerates her, or the group that is very happy to see her in short bursts and then not again for a while, we'll never really know unless a member of that family decides to go completely off the rails and start telling everything they know to anyone that will listen.

This idea that Meghan is so saintly and wonderful and perfect that not one member of the royal family could be a bit....meh....about her just simply isn't factual. All families have differing relationships within the family and the royal family is no different. I suspect that if everyone concerned were completely 100% honest, we'd find that Meghan adores some members of the family, barely tolerates others, and still others she's very happy to see at holidays and functions and is completely fine with not being in contact with them in between.

It seems to me that we might just be starting to get the little bits about who adores who, who can barely tolerate who, and who is cordial and friendly but not overly close inside the family and those various relationships might not fit into the fairytale perfection a lot of people had in mind for these two brothers and those within their family. In some ways it makes sense that this is just starting to show now when, if they're anything at all like most families I know, they determined that they would be as friendly, cheerful, and welcoming as possible while getting to know the new member and now that the craziness of the wedding and the tour and the last couple of years has calmed the relationships have evolved into what they will likely be going forward. Just my take on it, of course, but it does seem that royal watchers are going to have to get used to the idea that the various relationships within the family may not completely align with our vision for them.
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  #1173  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
This idea that Meghan is so saintly and wonderful and perfect that not one member of the royal family could be a bit....meh....about her just simply isn't factual.
I do not think any (most?) of us here think this is what the story is.

There is a middle ground that is perfectly normal between the idea of the Sussexes and Cambridges being a quadruple of BFFs and the rift story being floated. I doubt they all hung out together all the time when Harry and Meghan were dating so it is not odd that they do not now. They all have their own busy lives.
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  #1174  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:55 AM
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Shrug. I can believe there are some members that love her, others that like her and others who are indifferent or meh on her and she with them. I have no facts to back this up or say names. Not touching the Cambridge/Sussex "rifts" with a 10 foot barge pole right now.
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  #1175  
Old 12-28-2018, 11:55 AM
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Another aspect to remember along with those that Heather has pointed out is that all of these members of the family work in the same place called the "Firm". Its not a operation run by a "boss" that tells everyone what to do, how to do it and when to do it and where but its a family that has pretty much equal input into how things are done in relation to what they do.

In "Our Queen" by Robert Hardman, Andrew says of the "Firm" that "Its rather like having a business which has a number of diversified subsidiaries. We do our thing and we conduct our lives but occasionally we come back and talk to the the boss of the parent company." "We're all off doing things and then there are moments when we get together in an environment where there are lots of other people and they suddenly notice that all of us are having a conversation because we haven't actually been together for three months. Its entirely because we are performing roles in support of the Monarchy."

Its no wonder then to me that there are times in all of the royal's schedules that are set aside to actually interact as a family. The Christmas Lunch for all of the extended family, the Christmas celebrations at Sandringham, Easter at Windsor with Trooping the Color after and Ascot Week and the summer sojourn to Balmoral. These folks have to plan in advance when they all can get together simply because their lives are so filled with their work for the monarchy, their own personal endeavors and as time passes, their own families. These are people that know what they're going to be doing a six months to a year from now already as its penciled into their personal planners.

This is also a family that just doesn't "drop by" to see an aunt or a brother or a family member on a whim because chances are that the other person is slated to be somewhere doing something at that time. The Cambridges and the Sussexes may be able to "drop by" more often than most simple because they do live in close proximity to each other and have office space in common but that, too, is changing as the brothers and their spouses turn more and more into the diversified subsidiaries that Andrew was talking about. It comes with the territory to being full time senior working members of the "Firm".

The culprit I think in all the changes that are coming about is not the interpersonal relationships between William and Harry and their spouses is totally due, I believe, in the changes these people have had to make in taking on their roles as full time senior working royals. They're no longer really going to be walking the same paths as before when we've seen the unity of the Royal Foundation but taking on diversified roles of their own along with remaining strong within the Royal Foundation.

It's interesting to watch them grow and expand and to me, its all part of a soft transition to prepare to continue seamlessly as the new reign becomes a reality that is going to be sooner rather than later. It points to a well oiled machine that knows where its going and how it wants to do things and is prepared for any event that may come.

This is the "normal" of the British Royal Family. Its not quite the "normal" that we know family to be.
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  #1176  
Old 12-28-2018, 12:14 PM
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Things we know:

Harry told his grandparents (ie the Queen and DoE) about Meghan before anyone else.

They were engaged a couple weeks or so before they officially announced (shortly after she moved here).

They were dating about 16 months when they got engaged.

Harry and Meghan sat down and discussed what she would be taking on early in the relationship.

They spent most of their time together inside hanging out. Both of them suggested this was a great way to get to know the person. (There are no buffers).

They have both said his family was hugely supportive, more than once.

William has always been supportive of this relationship as far as we know...he made a statement on their behalf/Meghan's behalf and he's publically been very specific in how he's included her during the engagement etc.

They all have disagreements...they've been pretty open about that. That doesn't mean they devolve into nastiness and grudges.

Everything else is speculative and most likely made up by the media and/or distorted by them.


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  #1177  
Old 12-28-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Shrug. I can believe there are some members that love her, others that like her and others who are indifferent or meh on her and she with them. I have no facts to back this up or say names. Not touching the Cambridge/Sussex "rifts" with a 10 foot barge pole right now.
I'd also like to add another reason to what you've listed about other members of the family's relationship to Meghan. There are quite a few of them that perhaps really haven't had the time or the opportunity to really get to know Meghan well at all.

Someone asked once what the potential was of the relationship between Meghan and Princess Michael of Kent would be. To be honest, I don't see where there would really have been a lot of opportunity for those two to actually spend enough time together to even form a relationship. They've probably met in passing at the Christmas Lunch or on a "hi, how are you, and goodbye" basis at Kensington Palace walking Guy but as their lives are so diversified with doing different things and, of course, the age gap, I seriously don't believe they've spent any amount of time together to really get to know each other. In fact, I'd be hard pressed to form an opinion on how well Harry and Princess Michael of Kent get along.

Such is the way of things with members of a family. I was closer to some of my cousins (the ones that liked to sneak off into the woods and smoke the forbidden cigarette) than others that I shared no interests with. Some of my extended family I'd see only at family gatherings when my grandmother was still alive and haven't heard of or seen them since my grandmother passed away.

Families sometimes are just like acquaintances and co-workers. We know them but there's just not anything there that sparks the common interests that leads to a closer relationship.
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  #1178  
Old 12-28-2018, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post

What a weird bunch of robots the BRF would be if they didn't have disagreements & the occasional row.
There are a lot of great stories about the Queen, but my absolute favorite is the one from their world tour:
The reporters were standing outside the house on some tropical island when suddenly the door opens and Prince Philip runs out with the Queen going after him and throwing shoes at him

Of course, those were different times and the journalists never reported this and the Queen appologised to them in private.

This story always gave me hope that despite all constrains their life puts on them the royals are able to have screaming rows behind closed doors and just be normal humans with normal emotions.
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  #1179  
Old 12-28-2018, 01:12 PM
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I have not seen any reports that William questioned Meghan's suitability. I have seen speculation that he was concerned about the speed at which it was all happening.


If that is true, it's understandable. My family asked if "I was sure" when I got married in less than a year of knowing my husband. I wasn't offended, it was a natural question.


Media are desperate for the BIG story.
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  #1180  
Old 12-28-2018, 01:14 PM
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I have not seen any reports that William questioned Meghan's suitability. I have seen speculation that he was concerned about the speed at which it was all happening.


If that is true, it's understandable. My family asked if "I was sure" when I got married in less than a year of knowing my husband. I wasn't offended, it was a natural question.


Media are desperate for the BIG story.
The media want those old royal sagas back. I completely agree with the Duke of Cambridge on this.
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