If Harry/Meghan's children don't get to be HRHs Prince/Princess, does the Crown still have custody of their children?
The Crown does not "have custody of their children", H & M will.
If you are alluding to any potential divorce, the English courts will have jurisdiction on the matter. As they will be quite far down the line of succession, it is unlikely any arrangements for the "Crown" to have custody will need to be put in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fijiro
If Harry/Meghan's children don't get to be HRHs Prince/Princess, does the Crown still have custody of their children?
No, I was not alluding to divorce, (I hope it doesn't happen).
I was just wondering in case of out of country travels, since they're not HRHs do parents need permission to take them out of the country for travels.
There must be a limit to that because surely the queen cannot order the Norwegian royals around just because they are in line of succession.The Queen, as the monarch, can refuse to allow the children in the line of succession to do certain things such as leave the country. This law goes back to George II and make no reference to being HRHs - just line of succession.
What this would mean is that if Harry and Meghan were to divorce, she wouldn't get custody at all as that would have to remain with Harry (or jointly shared as happened with Charles and Diana; Andrew and Fergie and Anne and Mark). Had those divorces contested custody the Queen would have had final custody and not the parents.
She does have to give consent for them to be taken out of the country and for final decisions, such as education.
There must be a limit to that because surely the queen cannot order the Norwegian royals around just because they are in line of succession.
The Hanoverians are descended from a British Princess who married into a foreign royal house as they are descended from the Empress Frederick and therefore did not need to ask for permission. That they chose to do so is probably because they felt like it but they were certainly exempt.
The Norwegians, like the Swedes, Danes and Spanish were also descended from a British princess who married into a foreign royal house and were equally exempt.
The Queen, as the monarch, can refuse to allow the children in the line of succession to do certain things such as leave the country. This law goes back to George II and make no reference to being HRHs - just line of succession.
What this would mean is that if Harry and Meghan were to divorce, she wouldn't get custody at all as that would have to remain with Harry (or jointly shared as happened with Charles and Diana; Andrew and Fergie and Anne and Mark). Had those divorces contested custody the Queen would have had final custody and not the parents.
She does have to give consent for them to be taken out of the country and for final decisions, such as education.
I believe the stance the BRF has typically taken is that those who are descended from women who married into foreign royalty no longer fall under the same restrictions as those who are not.
So, the Norwegians, being descended from Maud of Wales, who married into the NRF, no longer have to follow the rules that those descended from Maud’s siblings, as none of them married into foreign royalty.
This is why the Hanovers continued to ask the Queen for permission to marry (prior to the recent changes), as they technically haven’t married into a foreign royal house.
Custody of royal grandchildrenThat is interesting, Is there an specific act of Parliament regulating those matters or is it an unwritten convention ?
Custody of royal grandchildren
Royal Musings: Custody of royal grandchildren
But we don't know exact situation with royal great-grandchildren. Of course king Charles will be legal custodian of all Harry's children.
We need to know exact wording of this court ruling, to know modern legal interpretation of this ruling and precedents. It's too early to make any conclusions.Thanks for the clarification ! So we are talking about a court ruling rather than an act of Parliament and, apparently, it applies only to the monarch’s grandchildren and no further than that. In theory, Harry’s children would not be covered by the ruling until Charles ascended the throne.
Custody of royal grandchildren
Royal Musings: Custody of royal grandchildren
But we don't know exact situation with royal great-grandchildren. Of course king Charles will be legal custodian of all Harry's children.
There is no legal modern interpretation to be known. The rules has been used many time legally. Like it was discussed in another thread. There was no legal custody settlements for the children during the divorce, of Anne, Charles, and Andrew, only private agreements between the parties. Diana's will stated that she wanted her brother Charles Earl spencer and one of her sisters to be legal Guardians of her children, this stipulation was overruled and the Queen appointed Sir john Major as a legal guardian of William and Harry. It is he and his team who dealt with all financial matters regarding Diana's successionWe need to know exact wording of this court ruling, to know modern legal interpretation of this ruling and precedents. It's too early to make any conclusions.
Is there a reason that the Prime minister was choosen? Would that mean that if W&C would divorce now, that PM May would be a guardian?
Is there a reason that the Prime minister was choosen? Would that mean that if W&C would divorce now, that PM May would be a guardian?
Sir John Major wasn't PM when Diana died but he had been for the previous 6 years so I presume the weekly meetings with the Queen had given her an insight into his suitability for the role (she might have thought differently had she known about his scandalous affair that only came to light in 2002).
I don't understand what is so complicated to understand. Absent this rule Parents (sovereign included) have custody of their minor children
So when they were minors, logically the sovereign have custody of his children.
His the case of the Queen, she and her husband had custody of her children from 1952 until their majority.
The rule came about in the 1700's when King George I had a disagreement with his son the then Prince of Wales. It was then ruled that the sovereign has custody of all his grandchildren.
According to this rule, from 1947 to 1952, King George VI had custody of Charles and Anne.
The Queen had custody of her grandchildren when they were minors
Peter Phillips, Zara Phillips, Prince William, Prince Harry, Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie, and according to this rule she still has custody of Lady Louise Windsor, and James Viscount Severn since they are still minors.
When he is King, Charles will have custody of his minor grandchildren
Prince George, Princess Charlotte, Prince Louis, Baby Sussex, and any other grandchildren
When William is King, he will have custody of his minor grandchildren, ie
George's children, charlotte's children, louis' children, and any other future children's children
Unless the rule is somehow repealed
Again as I understand it it only concerns the sovereign grandchildren, not all the sovereign's descendant
He was appointed a Knight of the Garter in 2005, i.e. after his extramarital affair had come to light. I would assume then that his affair becoming public didn’t shake Her Majesty’s confidence in him.
Ten out of 12 judges ruled that the "king's right of supervision extended to his grandchildren and this right of right belongs to His Majesty, King of the Realm,*even during their father's lifetime."
There is no legal modern interpretation to be known. The rules has been used many time legally. Like it was discussed in another thread. There was no legal custody settlements for the children during the divorce, of Anne, Charles, and Andrew, only private agreements between the parties. Diana's will stated that she wanted her brother Charles Earl spencer and one of her sisters to be legal Guardians of her children, this stipulation was overruled and the Queen appointed Sir john Major as a legal guardian of William and Harry. It is he and his team who dealt with all financial matters regarding Diana's succession
Custody of royal grandchildren
Royal Musings: Custody of royal grandchildren
But we don't know exact situation with royal great-grandchildren. Of course king Charles will be legal custodian of all Harry's children.
I'm extremely skeptical that this ruling is still good law after three centuries of changes in family law.
Harry&Meghan's children will have a dual citizenship?
Given that the ruling specifically referred to 'their father's lifetime', a case could be made that the queen only has/had custody of her maleline grandchildren. This would be consistent with only maleline grandchildren receiving titles.