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  #6901  
Old 12-30-2022, 11:20 PM
duchessrachel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FigTree View Post
She is the Princess of Wales. What’s so hard? People always refer to married ins by their origin name though. Diana was always Lady Di or POW. I do t ever remember people calling her a Princess Diana. I seem to remember that when she died though.
She was constantly called Princess Diana in the US.
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  #6902  
Old 12-30-2022, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Whilst Charles can, I don't quite see the point of creating Catherine as a Princess in her own right. She is the Princess of Wales, and her next upgrade will make her Queen Catherine.

I think we will all live if the American press continues to struggle with coming to terms with British titles. Perhaps they can keep calling her Duchess Kate if they want!
I am an American and it does drive me crazy. I wish the US press would do a little research before writing articles on royalty.
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  #6903  
Old 12-31-2022, 12:41 AM
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From what I've heard, U.S. papers use the wrong titles because the latter get more hits. More readers will go to U.S. articles that reference "Princess Diana" or "Kate Middleton" rather than one's referring to "Diana, Princess of Wales" or "HRH The Duchess of Cambridge"/"HRH The Princess of Wales" for example.

Since the current discussion is about how spouses could be titled in the future, it made me think of possible queer marriages with the British Line of Succession.

Let's say there's a HRH Prince Albert of Exeter, later HRH The Duke of Exeter and HRH Princess Sarah of Exeter, later HRH The Duchess of Montagu (assuming that by this time, royal princesses can hold dukedoms in their own right.). The Duke of Exeter gets engaged to a Mr. Mongane Mpofu and The Duchess of Montagu gets engaged to a Miss Priyanka Nagra. Would it be more or less likely that their spouses wouldn't gain any titles from their marriage, or could the spouses even be given an earldom in their own right to avoid the confusion of TRH The Duke and Duke of Exeter?
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  #6904  
Old 12-31-2022, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by HenRach Dominion View Post
Let's say there's a HRH Prince Albert of Exeter, later HRH The Duke of Exeter and HRH Princess Sarah of Exeter, later HRH The Duchess of Montagu (assuming that by this time, royal princesses can hold dukedoms in their own right.). The Duke of Exeter gets engaged to a Mr. Mongane Mpofu and The Duchess of Montagu gets engaged to a Miss Priyanka Nagra. Would it be more or less likely that their spouses wouldn't gain any titles from their marriage, or could the spouses even be given an earldom in their own right to avoid the confusion of TRH The Duke and Duke of Exeter?
Under the current rules of title acquisition through marriage, which have not been adapted since medieval times, neither husbands of titled women nor same-sex spouses of titled people automatically gain any title from the marriage. Thus the strange situation where the Duke of Edinburgh's cousin Lord Ivar Mountbatten, whose first marriage was to a woman and second marriage to a man, shares his title with his divorced ex-spouse (a divorcée retains an ex-husband's title in the British system) but not his current spouse.

Legally, there is nothing to prevent the monarch from ennobling a spouse in their own right provided the government does not object, and in my opinion, while though there is no recent precedent, they could also permit the consort to use their spouse's title as a courtesy. But it seems unlikely to happen during this reign. Timothy Laurence has not been given any title other than Sir, even though he is now a working royal in all but name.


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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
Princess Alice's request was unusual (and it seems a great many in her generation wished to avoid the word "dowager") and is one of the only examples in the last 50 years so again it's discussed a lot.

The fact that HLM granted her wish showed that she was willing to change current precedent when it was called for but not "just because" IMO. I doubt Alice would have gone about calling herself "Princess Alice of Gloucester" if HM had not consented, despite technically becoming a "Princess of the UK" upon marriage.
Alice's styling followed the precedent set by her sister-in-law Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent. Marina's styling arguably followed the precedent set by non-royal duchesses/peeresses of her generation, who as you point out tended to avoid the old-fashioned style of "dowager" and use their own given name together with their peerage title.

Prior to Marina there was no royal precedent, at least not within the last few centuries, as previous widows of royal dukes had not had to contend with the duchess title being adopted by the wife of the new duke within the widow's lifetime.
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  #6905  
Old 12-31-2022, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by duchessrachel View Post
She was constantly called Princess Diana in the US.
Does that matter though. It is hardly important. It's another country. They can get it wrong as much as they like.
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  #6906  
Old 12-31-2022, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by FigTree View Post
Does that matter though. It is hardly important. It's another country. They can get it wrong as much as they like.
Quite right. Princess Diana, Duchess Kate or Duchess Meghan!
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  #6907  
Old 12-31-2022, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by FigTree View Post
Does that matter though. It is hardly important. It's another country. They can get it wrong as much as they like.
fairly sure that a lot of Brits referred to her as Princess Diana.
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  #6908  
Old 12-31-2022, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
fairly sure that a lot of Brits referred to her as Princess Diana.
Yeah I don't know when that happened. Maybe once she divorced. Last few years of her life certainly.

I qlways remember her being called Lady Di.
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  #6909  
Old 12-31-2022, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FigTree View Post
Yeah I don't know when that happened. Maybe once she divorced. Last few years of her life certainly.

I qlways remember her being called Lady Di.
I think she was always called DI or Princess DI in the tabloids.
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  #6910  
Old 12-31-2022, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
fairly sure that a lot of Brits referred to her as Princess Diana.
I quit caring about the rectitude of it when I watched a documentary where the Duke of Edinburgh was driving around Sandringham. He pointed over to the side and said "this is Park House, it's where Princess Diana was born."
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  #6911  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:53 AM
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Sorry, I meant to post this link:

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/bri...e_highness.htm

I myself haven't had the time to read through all of the available discussions on the subject, so I apologize if this has already been covered, but is there any available precedent in relation to letters patent on other matters? For example, are there other honors or decorations which have been conferred by letters patent and subsequently revoked, and if so, were the original letters patent always repealed by new letters patent? Such answers might throw some light on whether letters patent, in general, are considered by legal authorities to outweigh other forms of expression of the sovereign's will.
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  #6912  
Old 01-27-2023, 03:44 PM
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Not sure where to put this observation, but it seems to me whilst trawling through Wikipedia checking out the family members of the principality of Liechtenstein, that there around 100 living Prince/esses of Liechtenstein today. And as we probably all know that there are hundreds if not thousands of Prince/esses scattered throughout Europe today, mostly congregated in Germany I believe. Not that they’re all Royal, the Liechtensteins are Serene Highnesses, but there are also Imperial and other Highnesses out there.

So it seems to me in this day and age when ‘reigning’ monarchies are cutting down on who can be Prince/esses (I’m looking at you Denmark and the Netherlands in particular, not forgetting all the discussion on these boards re the Wessex and Sussex titles) that while the reigning monarchies are stripping people of their titles, the non-reigning, or the not so well-known ones, are hanging on tightly. Some of the Liechtenstein ones are six degrees from the Head of the House (as opposed to say, the Brits, where the Prince/ess title drops off after the grandchildren – as evidenced by this:

Johann I Josef, Prince of Liechtenstein 1760-1836 > Prince Franz de Paula of Liechtenstein > Prince Alfred > Prince Karl Aloys > Prince Wolfgang > Prince Leopold > Prince Lorenz b2012 – with only the Princesses’ descendants not having titles (and how does that equate to this day and age?) and also some of the Houses that have that morganatic marriage thing going on.

Not quite sure what my point here is but it’s certainly interesting. To me anyway

Back to the Brits, I hope the Wessexes become Edinburghs. Although my sensible side says that titles don’t mean diddly-squat, and we’re all created equal, still my other side says it’s all a bit magical (not to mention historic) and (rambling on here) I do hope there are tiaras at the Coronation because what’s the point if Royalty look like the rest of us, they might as well just be civil servants.
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  #6913  
Old 01-30-2023, 11:31 PM
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The difference is that Liechtenstein is a very small country. The Princely family gets mediocre media attention and most important, the gazillion Prince/Princesses of Liechtenstein live largely very private lives. Hence the reason the Princely house of Liechtenstein can get away with having so many titled members.
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