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  #5841  
Old 06-21-2021, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunastro2020 View Post
If prince Charles will become king, Who will be prince of wales?
The title of Prince of Wales is not one that is automatic. When Charles becomes king, William will automatically become The Duke of Cornwall but it will be up to Charles whether or not to create William as The Prince of Wales.

I don't see any reason why Charles wouldn't do this but it's not a given that William will be The Prince of Wales.
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  #5842  
Old 06-21-2021, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The title of Prince of Wales is not one that is automatic. When Charles becomes king, William will automatically become The Duke of Cornwall but it will be up to Charles whether or not to create William as The Prince of Wales.

I don't see any reason why Charles wouldn't do this but it's not a given that William will be The Prince of Wales.
So,Kate Middleton will be duchess of Cornwall and three of kids will be prince/princess of cornwall. So, If Charles if ever gonna become king,Can Prince William and his wife and kids be cambridge?Is it compulsory for them to be Cornwall?
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  #5843  
Old 06-21-2021, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunastro2020 View Post
So,Kate Middleton will be duchess of Cornwall and three of kids will be prince/princess of cornwall. So, If Charles if ever gonna become king,Can Prince William and his wife and kids be cambridge?Is it compulsory for them to be Cornwall?
I should have stated too that when Charles becomes king, William will be The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. He will not lose his ducal title of Cambridge. I imagine that the Cambridge kids will continue to be "of Cambridge" unless they follow their father and uncle (should William be created The Prince of Wales) and be "of Wales".

Personally, I think the "of Wales" is the most likely to happen.
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  #5844  
Old 06-21-2021, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I should have stated too that when Charles becomes king, William will be The Duke of Cornwall and Cambridge. He will not lose his ducal title of Cambridge. I imagine that the Cambridge kids will continue to be "of Cambridge" unless they follow their father and uncle (should William be created The Prince of Wales) and be "of Wales".

Personally, I think the "of Wales" is the most likely to happen.
If Charles will become king, Will there will be any changes in Harry-Meghan and their kids title
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  #5845  
Old 06-21-2021, 03:07 PM
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It will be addressed eventually. I am not surprised that Clarence House is somewhat downplaying it right now. Personally I agree that Charles wouldn't want his first thing as king to be removing HRH from his grandchildren but it might happen. I just feel they should do it before his reign and not after they have it.
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  #5846  
Old 06-21-2021, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Titles and styles have never passed through the female line: that would be quite a radical change. It's possibly long overdue, but it would be a big change.
I guess that you mean that in British history, titles and styles have passed through male lines as the general rule. On occasion British titles do pass through female lines (the children of the present Queen are royally titled because of their mother, not their father), and there exist countries such as Spain where it happens regularly. It would be a less radical change genderwise than Parliament eliminating the legal preference for a monarch's sons to succeed him/her over the monarch's daughters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
This remains the perfect solution for me. If we think back, In December 2012, Queen Elizabeth issued letters patent that stated that all children born to the eldest child of Charles, Prince of Wales, would enjoy a princely title and style, and not just the eldest son. This was done specifically should the Cambridge first born child be a daughter.
That has been debated. The letters patent of December 2012 "declare that all the children of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales should have and enjoy the style, title and attribute of Royal Highness". If Charlotte had been the first born Cambridge child and George the second born, the 2012 LPs would have applied the princely title and style to the children of George (the eldest son of William, Prince of Wales), and not the children of the future Queen Charlotte, all the same.

Either Queen Elizabeth planned on giving special treatment to the eldest Cambridge son even in a scenario where his elder sister is the heiress, or the letters patent were only intended to deal with the male-preference law of succession which was in effect then.
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  #5847  
Old 06-21-2021, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
That has been debated. The letters patent of December 2012 "declare that all the children of the eldest son of The Prince of Wales should have and enjoy the style, title and attribute of Royal Highness". If Charlotte had been the first born Cambridge child and George the second born, the 2012 LPs would have applied the princely title and style to the children of George (the eldest son of William, Prince of Wales), and not the children of the future Queen Charlotte, all the same.

Either Queen Elizabeth planned on giving special treatment to the eldest Cambridge son even in a scenario where his elder sister is the heiress, or the letters patent were only intended to deal with the male-preference law of succession which was in effect then.
Only the first born male of William would have been HRH from birth. Had they had a daughter she would not be HRH. That was the issue. So had Charlotte been born first and nothing was changed we would be seeing Lady Charlotte, Prince George, and Lord Louis. How awkward is that with only one bring granted a royal title? So giving all the children the same status made more sense.
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  #5848  
Old 06-21-2021, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunastro2020 View Post
If Charles will become king, Will there will be any changes in Harry-Meghan and their kids title
As things stand right now and should Charles become king tomorrow, both Archie and Lilibet would instantly become HRH Prince/ss of the UK as male line grandchildren of the reigning monarch.
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  #5849  
Old 06-21-2021, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunastro2020 View Post
If Charles will become king, Will there will be any changes in Harry-Meghan and their kids title

As it is now the moment Charles becomes King, Archie and Lily will become HRH Prince/Princess as they are then the grandchildren of the monarch. Therefore i think if they wan't to limit it that they should issue New Lettters Patent now with a regulation that people who arealready HRH Prince/Princess as grandchildren of a monarch will keep it.
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  #5850  
Old 06-21-2021, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Only the first born male of William would have been HRH from birth. Had they had a daughter she would not be HRH. That was the issue. So had Charlotte been born first and nothing was changed we would be seeing Lady Charlotte, Prince George, and Lord Louis. How awkward is that with only one bring granted a royal title? So giving all the children the same status made more sense.
This is where the changes to the Act of Succession to the Crown that amended the previous conditions of male primogeniture to equal primogeniture made it necessary. Should Charlotte have been born first with no amendment to the Act of Succession to the Crown and George followed close behind her, George would be the heir apparent and William's heir. With the amendment, and Charlotte born first, Charlotte would have been the heir apparent yet not titled as HRH Princess.

We have to remember too that all of this happened where the Cambridge's children were great grandchildren of the reigning monarch.
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  #5851  
Old 06-21-2021, 04:36 PM
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I just read an article that threw out the idea that the title Prince and Princess could be used for those who are needed or chose to be a working royal. So basically, the monarch could "appoint" a member of the family to be a prince. So, it might be that we have a Princess Charlotte who is a working royal or a Louis Mountbatten-Windsor who is not. Maybe a Princess Louise who was formerly a Lady. What an interesting idea. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
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  #5852  
Old 06-21-2021, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kyle View Post
I just read an article that threw out the idea that the title Prince and Princess could be used for those who are needed or chose to be a working royal. So basically, the monarch could "appoint" a member of the family to be a prince. So, it might be that we have a Princess Charlotte who is a working royal or a Louis Mountbatten-Windsor who is not. Maybe a Princess Louise who was formerly a Lady. What an interesting idea. I'm not sure how I feel about it.
I dont see the Queen or Charles liking such an idea. Being a Prince or Princess is not related to being a working royal....
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  #5853  
Old 06-21-2021, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunastro2020 View Post
If prince Charles will become king, Who will be prince of wales?
William and Catherine will become Prince and Princess of Wales. The title's not inherited automatically, but William will probably be created Prince of Wales fairly soon afterwards.
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  #5854  
Old 06-21-2021, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I dont see the Queen or Charles liking such an idea. Being a Prince or Princess is not related to being a working royal....
It's definitely not a job description title. Basically, the title of Prince/ss is there to define the relationship of a person to the reigning monarch. Prince Louis of Cambridge could decided to spend his lifetime in the armed services but that wouldn't change his relationship to his great grandmother, his grandfather or his father.

As it stands right now there are two princesses of the blood that are not working royals. Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie. As granddaughters of the reigning monarch through the male line, they're both HRH Princesses.
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  #5855  
Old 06-21-2021, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
It's definitely not a job description title. Basically, the title of Prince/ss is there to define the relationship of a person to the reigning monarch. Prince Louis of Cambridge could decided to spend his lifetime in the armed services but that wouldn't change his relationship to his great grandmother, his grandfather or his father.

As it stands right now there are two princesses of the blood that are not working royals. Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie. As granddaughters of the reigning monarch through the male line, they're both HRH Princesses.
yes but I meant that I can't see teh queen or Charles "throwing out" the title of Prince/ss like it was a set of car keys.
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  #5856  
Old 06-21-2021, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
yes but I meant that I can't see teh queen or Charles "throwing out" the title of Prince/ss like it was a set of car keys.
I can't either. The Queen is a traditionalist of the old school and, from what I gather, Charles isn't one to start making mega changes to the way things always has been done. There will be some things that are necessary for the monarchy to move ahead into the future but I believe Charles knows that a lot of what represents the monarchy is its traditions and ways that denote a continuity through the ages.
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  #5857  
Old 06-21-2021, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
yes but I meant that I can't see teh queen or Charles "throwing out" the title of Prince/ss like it was a set of car keys.
I have to admit I regretted my use of the term after I wrote it. Lol

Not necessarily what I meant or the words the author used. I wish I could say English is not my first language, but it is.
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  #5858  
Old 06-21-2021, 05:17 PM
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A friendly reminder: sentiments or opinions about Sussex-titles should be taken to the Sussex-thread, which you can find here.

The technicalities around these titles can of course be discussed in this thread.
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  #5859  
Old 06-21-2021, 06:02 PM
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I don't know that the Queen is a traditionalist. There've been some big changes in recent years. Equal succession rights for women changed the way things had always been done, and OKing the marriage of a monarch or heir to a Catholic changed a rule that went back over 200 years. Charles and Harry both marrying divorcees was also a big change, due to the religious issues involved.
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  #5860  
Old 06-21-2021, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I don't know that the Queen is a traditionalist. There've been some big changes in recent years. Equal succession rights for women changed the way things had always been done, and OKing the marriage of a monarch or heir to a Catholic changed a rule that went back over 200 years. Charles and Harry both marrying divorcees was also a big change, due to the religious issues involved.
I believe Elizabeth is a traditionalist. She allowed these changes but was hardly a trendsetter about it. She only changes things when she cannot resist that change any longer. Her changes tend to be catch-up changes made years after those changes have occurred in society generally including in statutory law. She still applies the mediaeval rules of coverture in the sense that married women are still referred to in palace documents as, e.g. Mrs Michael Tindall, i.e. as an extension of their husband and having no legal identity of their own, not even a first name. That is tradition with a capital "T" in my opinion.
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