The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #4801  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:05 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Given all that's happened and the changes that the family has undergone over the last 20+ years and the fact that Sophie and Edward are now full time working royals even though they, at the time, weren't planning to be, I wonder if we might possibly see Louise and James' styles being changed as they age to be more in line with those of the typically male-line royals?

I realize this might be controversial and contentious even though I don't intend for it to be but things haven't really turned out as planned on many fronts within the RF and I really wouldn't be all that surprised to find the Wessex children and the York girls stepping in to perform royal duties on a relatively frequent basis, even if they do manage to hold outside careers. I guess I'm thinking of something much along the lines already done by the York girls with their attendance at garden parties, Maundy Thursday services, etc. Nothing too frequent, nothing too time consuming, but the occasional appearance or duty. And, if that's the case and if the monarch and the Wessexes and Louise/James agree, it seems as though it would be fitting and, in fact, the right thing to do to allow them the style they're technically entitled to have.
Sophie and Edward have proved a help because of the departure now of Andrew, H and Meghan. but I think the main reason they were given full tiem royal work was that their businesses were causing trouble, and they had to stop them. I don't think that Louise and James will take on royal duties beyond a small bit of helping out and they are still having their education..so it would be a few years before they are free. I don't think they wll get the HRH.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4802  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:15 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Missouri, United States
Posts: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Sophie and Edward have proved a help because of the departure now of Andrew, H and Meghan. but I think the main reason they were given full tiem royal work was that their businesses were causing trouble, and they had to stop them. I don't think that Louise and James will take on royal duties beyond a small bit of helping out and they are still having their education..so it would be a few years before they are free. I don't think they wll get the HRH.
I probably didn't really word it very well but I understand all of that and why Sophie and Edward are now full time working royals even though at the time of their marriage they were expected not to be. I guess I'm just thinking that over time as the numbers of older royals dwindle, we might see a new model in some respects that Charles/Camilla, William/Catherine, Anne, and Edward/Sophie pick up the majority of the "big stuff" but maybe for smaller things like garden parties, Maundy Thursday services, specific causes that are close to them like scoliosis for Eugenie or eye charities for Louise, etc. they might allow the Yorks and the Wessex children to be somewhat involved on a limited basis and, if that happens, it does feel right to me that they reevaluate the title/style situation for Louise and James simply because things have changed and circumstances are quite different than they were anticipated to be.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #4803  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:24 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I probably didn't really word it very well but I understand all of that and why Sophie and Edward are now full time working royals even though at the time of their marriage they were expected not to be. I guess I'm just thinking that over time as the numbers of older royals dwindle, we might see a new model in some respects that Charles/Camilla, William/Catherine, Anne, and Edward/Sophie pick up the majority of the "big stuff" but maybe for smaller things like garden parties, Maundy Thursday services, specific causes that are close to them like scoliosis for Eugenie or eye charities for Louise, etc. they might allow the Yorks and the Wessex children to be somewhat involved on a limited basis and, if that happens, it does feel right to me that they reevaluate the title/style situation for Louise and James simply because things have changed and circumstances are quite different than they were anticipated to be.
I don't think the Yorks will be asked to do more than perhaps take on a few more things per year. I doubt if they want to, they will likely be having kids soon. And James and Louise if they are only picked up to help out for a few years, what is the point of giving them HRH?
Reply With Quote
  #4804  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:31 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Missouri, United States
Posts: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I don't think the Yorks will be asked to do more than perhaps take on a few more things per year. I doubt if they want to, they will likely be having kids soon. And James and Louise if they are only picked up to help out for a few years, what is the point of giving them HRH?
Truthfully, I guess only as a kind of thank you and acknowledgement. I don't expect Charles to support his nieces and nephews forever, especially if they're only stepping up to do a handful of duties each per year but, since they wouldn't be getting any kind of retirement per se or even income from the crown other than maybe expenses for those few duties each year, it would seem to be a relatively simple and thoughtful gesture just as a thank you and a bit of an acknowledgement of the titles and styles they'd most likely have occupied from birth if there had been a crystal ball handy.
Reply With Quote
  #4805  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:50 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
If the assumption that the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh wanted the dukedom of Edinburgh to pass to Edward specifically is correct, then I suppose that would be the reason. I cannot see what issues it would create.

But I am not arguing that the theory is unreasonable; I simply find the reported narrative more likely.

Since BP actually announced on his wedding day that Edward would be made the Duke of Edinburgh eventually, I see no reason to doubt that plan.
Reply With Quote
  #4806  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:54 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
Since BP actually announced on his wedding day that Edward would be made the Duke of Edinburgh eventually, I see no reason to doubt that plan.
Nor do I see any reason to doubt that it has been the plan since (at the latest) the announcement on the wedding day, but in the context of this discussion the question is whether it was the only plan which was ever contemplated (prior to the wedding).
Reply With Quote
  #4807  
Old 03-10-2020, 02:56 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
If the assumption that the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh wanted the dukedom of Edinburgh to pass to Edward specifically is correct, then I suppose that would be the reason. I cannot see what issues it would create.

But I am not arguing that the theory is unreasonable; I simply find the reported narrative more likely.
I am not sure what you consider 'the theory' and 'the reported narrative'. Given that it was officially communicated that the intention is for Edward to become the future duke of Edinburgh, that is my starting point... (unfortunately, due to very slow internet I cannot refer you to the specific statement made)

Any rumors about what Edward and Sophie 'wanted' or 'liked' come second.
Reply With Quote
  #4808  
Old 03-10-2020, 03:56 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
Truthfully, I guess only as a kind of thank you and acknowledgement. I don't expect Charles to support his nieces and nephews forever, especially if they're only stepping up to do a handful of duties each per year but, since they wouldn't be getting any kind of retirement per se or even income from the crown other than maybe expenses for those few duties each year, it would seem to be a relatively simple and thoughtful gesture just as a thank you and a bit of an acknowledgement of the titles and styles they'd most likely have occupied from birth if there had been a crystal ball handy.
But what happens when they give up royal duties or just do a very little like Bea and Eugeine are doing now? It wouldn't look very nice to take it away and they may well feel that they would prefer not to have the titles of Prince and Princess. If they do take on work, Charles will problaby make them an allowance..but I think he does not want to have to do that for life, for everyone who does some regular work. the Duchy of Cornwall's resources are not limitless.
Reply With Quote
  #4809  
Old 03-10-2020, 04:08 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Missouri, United States
Posts: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
But what happens when they give up royal duties or just do a very little like Bea and Eugeine are doing now? It wouldn't look very nice to take it away and they may well feel that they would prefer not to have the titles of Prince and Princess. If they do take on work, Charles will problaby make them an allowance..but I think he does not want to have to do that for life, for everyone who does some regular work. the Duchy of Cornwall's resources are not limitless.
I think I actually said "if" everyone involved is in agreement. I also said that it should be made clear that they will not be supported by the crown but simply paid expenses for the work they do. They may not even want the titles and styles and if not then fine. And frankly I don't think that offering them the titles and styles that technically should have been theirs would require stripping them of it when they're not performing a high number of duties since, in the scenario I mentioned, they wouldn't even be expected to perform a high number of duties. I simply think it might be nice gesture, a bit of a thank you that costs no one anything, and a bit of an acknowledgement that their presence and willingness to step in even on a small scale is of great help to the RF. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a nicety, I suppose, for helping to fill a void.
Reply With Quote
  #4810  
Old 03-10-2020, 04:22 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I am not sure what you consider 'the theory' and 'the reported narrative'. Given that it was officially communicated that the intention is for Edward to become the future duke of Edinburgh, that is my starting point... (unfortunately, due to very slow internet I cannot refer you to the specific statement made)

Any rumors about what Edward and Sophie 'wanted' or 'liked' come second.
The rumor that the plan for Edward to become Duke of Edinburgh was the starting point, and the decision not to create him a Duke at the time of his wedding was the consequence of that, is a theory. It may be true, but it is not confirmed by Buckingham Palace.

The official announcement stated:

Title of HRH The Prince Edward

The Queen has today been pleased to confer an Earldom on The Prince Edward. His titles will be Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn. The Prince Edward thus becomes His Royal Highness The Earl of Wessex and Miss Sophie Rhys-Jones on marriage will become Her Royal Highness The Countess of Wessex.

The Queen, The Duke of Edinburgh and The Prince of Wales have also agreed that The Prince Edward should be given the Dukedom of Edinburgh in due course, when the present title now held by Prince Philip eventually reverts to the Crown.

The Queen has also decided, with the agreement of The Prince Edward and Miss Rhys-Jones, that any children they might have should not be given the style His or Her Royal Highness, but would have courtesy titles as sons or daughters of an Earl.

The announcement did not state a link between the decision to grant an earldom without a dukedom and the plan for the Edinburgh dukedom.

Several options are in the running: The earldom decision may have been the consequence of the Edinburgh plan (as you believe), the Edinburgh plan may have been the consequence of the earldom decision, or the two matters may have been determined independently of each other.
Reply With Quote
  #4811  
Old 03-10-2020, 04:29 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 9,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I think I actually said "if" everyone involved is in agreement. I also said that it should be made clear that they will not be supported by the crown but simply paid expenses for the work they do. They may not even want the titles and styles and if not then fine. And frankly I don't think that offering them the titles and styles that technically should have been theirs would require stripping them of it when they're not performing a high number of duties since, in the scenario I mentioned, they wouldn't even be expected to perform a high number of duties. I simply think it might be nice gesture, a bit of a thank you that costs no one anything, and a bit of an acknowledgement that their presence and willingness to step in even on a small scale is of great help to the RF. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a nicety, I suppose, for helping to fill a void.
I suppose so, I just feel that Charles will probably be cautious about HRH's as well as about taking on "temporary help". and I think Lou and James, having grown up without the HRH will not want it.. and may only regard it as a bit of a hindrance in their normal life. I think if they are asked, nicely, they'll be happy to help a bit
Reply With Quote
  #4812  
Old 03-10-2020, 04:30 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I am not sure what you consider 'the theory' and 'the reported narrative'. Given that it was officially communicated that the intention is for Edward to become the future duke of Edinburgh, that is my starting point... (unfortunately, due to very slow internet I cannot refer you to the specific statement made)

Any rumors about what Edward and Sophie 'wanted' or 'liked' come second.
BBC NEWS | Special Report | 1999 | 06/99 | royal wedding | Wessex titles for Edward and Sophie

"Prince Edward has been made Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn in honour of his marriage to Sophie Rhys-Jones.
Royal Wedding Sophie will now be styled Her Royal Highness, the Countess of Wessex, shortened to simply Sophie Wessex.

It has also been agreed that Edward will also become Duke of Edinburgh after the death of his mother, the Queen, and his father, Prince Philip, who currently holds the dukedom."
Reply With Quote
  #4813  
Old 03-10-2020, 04:36 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,978


I don't think the agreement is in dispute. I posted the full statement above, if you are interested.
Reply With Quote
  #4814  
Old 03-10-2020, 04:55 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post


I don't think the agreement is in dispute. I posted the full statement above, if you are interested.
IMO, it is obvious that no matter what discussions took place prior to settling on "the Earl title now, specifically the Duke of Edinburgh title in the future" scenario, the Duke of Edinburgh title was the deciding factor in Edward only receiving the Earldom at the time of his wedding. But then, none of us were there for the discussions with the Queen.
Reply With Quote
  #4815  
Old 03-10-2020, 05:50 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: St Thomas, U.S. Minor Outlying Islands
Posts: 3,978
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
IMO, it is obvious that no matter what discussions took place prior to settling on "the Earl title now, specifically the Duke of Edinburgh title in the future" scenario, the Duke of Edinburgh title was the deciding factor in Edward only receiving the Earldom at the time of his wedding. But then, none of us were there for the discussions with the Queen.
Yes, unfortunately none of us can conclusively tell what occurred. But I must disagree with there being only one "obvious" explanation. In view of the official statement in 1999 (quoted in the article you posted) that the Wessex children's styles reflected "the clear personal wish" of their parents, and Archie's non-usage of a courtesy title being officially communicated as his parents' decision, the reports that Prince Edward made his own choice regarding his title are at least plausible (and in my personal opinion, likely, for the reasons I earlier gave).
Reply With Quote
  #4816  
Old 04-03-2020, 12:39 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,646
Does anyone know why The Duchess of Sussex is being referred to as "Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex"? It sounds so alien. Is this just people making it up as they go along or have I missed some official announcement?
Reply With Quote
  #4817  
Old 04-03-2020, 12:43 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 12,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Does anyone know why The Duchess of Sussex is being referred to as "Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex"? It sounds so alien. Is this just people making it up as they go along or have I missed some official announcement?

Because ppl don't evidently realize she's being titled incorrectly is my guess. Somehow the PR ppl at BP didn't grasp that this is the way you refer to a woman divorced (or widowed) from the Duke of Sussex.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #4818  
Old 04-03-2020, 12:46 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Middlewich, United Kingdom
Posts: 21,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Does anyone know why The Duchess of Sussex is being referred to as "Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex"? It sounds so alien. Is this just people making it up as they go along or have I missed some official announcement?


There’s not been an official announcement, there won’t be now but I remember reading that it’s what they’ve asked for. It’s the, The, that makes it different from the divorced style.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #4819  
Old 04-03-2020, 12:57 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Midlands, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,646
Thank you to you both for your responses.

It's all very unsatisfactory. I hadn't realised that BP had referred to her in this way. Very peculiar.

I appreciate that this is an unusual situation but things shouldn't just be changed so lightly. Otherwise what's the point of having rules about styles & titles.
Reply With Quote
  #4820  
Old 04-03-2020, 01:01 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Does anyone know why The Duchess of Sussex is being referred to as "Meghan, the Duchess of Sussex"? It sounds so alien. Is this just people making it up as they go along or have I missed some official announcement?
I guess that's what Meghan herself approved. As it is in the official Disney trailer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Because ppl don't evidently realize she's being titled incorrectly is my guess. Somehow the PR ppl at BP didn't grasp that this is the way you refer to a woman divorced (or widowed) from the Duke of Sussex.


LaRae
No, it's not. It would be Meghan, Duchess of Sussex in the case of a divorce. Disney uses 'Meghan, THE Duchess of Sussex'.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, duke of york, kate, princess beatrice, queenmother, spouse, styles and titles, titles uk styles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Non-British Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 792 08-22-2021 12:16 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn King Willem-Alexander, Queen Máxima and family 78 08-21-2021 07:14 AM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 894 11-26-2019 11:04 PM
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family 1897 11-29-2017 03:13 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 50 06-02-2017 02:28 PM




Popular Tags
america american archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian britain british british royal family camilla's family camilla parker bowles carolin china china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing clarence house colorblindness commonwealth countries crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii family tree genetics gradenigo harry and meghan hello! highgrove history hochberg house of windsor japan japanese imperial family japan history jewellery kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos książ castle liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers medical meghan markle monarchist movements monarchists monarchy nara period plantinum jubilee pless politics portugal prince harry queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex suthida thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:19 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×