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  #4581  
Old 10-06-2019, 06:33 PM
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It's my understanding the Earldom of Selkirk has an unusual remainder as well with the result that in 1886 the 8th Earl was succeeded by his older brother.
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  #4582  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:07 PM
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The title Duke of Exeter was last created in 1444. The title was forfeited in 1461.
Can the title Duke of Exeter be created again?
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  #4583  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
The title Duke of Exeter was last created in 1444. The title was forfeited in 1461.
Can the title Duke of Exeter be created again?
Yes a forefeited title can be re-created. Happened numerous times to Exeter. Other titles like Gloucester as well.


The issue may lay in that there is a Marquess of Exeter.

Though there are some titles that share the same name, they are usually a subsidiary of the other, or started out as such. It would be a bit odd to name Louis lets say Duke of Exeter when he married, when the Marquess of Exeter is held by the Burghley family.
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  #4584  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
It's my understanding the Earldom of Selkirk has an unusual remainder as well with the result that in 1886 the 8th Earl was succeeded by his older brother.
Thanks for this interesting tidbit. I looked it up and it's still rather interesting. It even resulted in a court case in the nineties (see Wikipedia).
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  #4585  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
I don't think anyone already an HRH will be stripped of their position but I firmly believe that neither Louise, James, Archie or any eventual future siblings of his will be neither HRH nor prince/ss
To be honest it would not surprise me at all if B and E are stripped of their titles when Charles is King but I think they would be downgraded to the title of 'Lady' instead of holding no title at all. To be honest I think their existing titles just make things complicated for them as they have the HRH but there is no place for them as working royals.
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  #4586  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:02 AM
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You make a good point - the HRH complicates things for Beatrice and Eugenie - but if Charles does take it away I hope it's done with their freely given consent (no pressure).
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  #4587  
Old 10-09-2019, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post

You make a good point - the HRH complicates things for Beatrice and Eugenie - but if Charles does take it away I hope it's done with their freely given consent (no pressure).
I can't see HRHs being revoked. Instead, they may be encouraged to not use the titles over time.
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  #4588  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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I imagine that if Charles issues letters patent amending just who is entitled to the HRH honorific, it will be effective from that date forward and not retroactive. Just gradually slimming down who holds the HRH should it be the King and his heir and family. the only person in question would be a daughter if Harry and Meghan have one before Charles is king. They may even go the way they have with Archie.

When we think about it, its only Beatrice and Eugenie that most like would still be HRH and both of them cannot pass it down as things stand right now.
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  #4589  
Old 10-09-2019, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
When we think about it, its only Beatrice and Eugenie that most like would still be HRH and both of them cannot pass it down as things stand right now.
That is correct, it is only B&E.
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  #4590  
Old 10-09-2019, 12:09 PM
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Beatrice and Eugenie will be HRHs for life. That is a given and pretty harmless as they won’t pass their title neither to their husbands nor to their children.

Going forward, however, I expect the HRH to be restricted to children of the monarch, or of the heir apparent , or of the eldest child of the heir apparent meaning that neither Harry’s nor Louis’ children will be HRHs themselves.
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  #4591  
Old 10-09-2019, 03:30 PM
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Beatrice and Eugenie will be HRHs for life. That is a given and pretty harmless as they won’t pass their title neither to their husbands nor to their children.

Going forward, however, I expect the HRH to be restricted to children of the monarch, or of the heir apparent , or of the eldest child of the heir apparent meaning that neither Harry’s nor Louis’ children will be HRHs themselves.
Yes I think that makes sense. It will be odd as times goes on to have HRH's so far from the throne for potentially the next 70+ years.

I sometimes wonder whether the York princesses might be better voluntarily renouncing their styles. It would simplify their lives I'm sure.

There is precedence in Patricia of Connaught of course.
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  #4592  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Yes I think that makes sense. It will be odd as times goes on to have HRH's so far from the throne for potentially the next 70+ years.

I sometimes wonder whether the York princesses might be better voluntarily renouncing their styles. It would simplify their lives I'm sure.

There is precedence in Patricia of Connaught of course.
Currently, HRH princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy is 53rd in line of succession; so far I haven't heard many complains about it. I do realize that she is considered a working member of the family but her brother HRH prince Michael of Kent (at 48) isn't and while people complain about him at times, I don't recall lots of people suggesting he relinquish his style of royal highness - but I might be mistaken.

Of course, perceptions might change in the future but it seems unlikely B and E will ever end up that far from the throne...
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  #4593  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:12 PM
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Over the next decade or so I'd imagine there will be a clear out of the older HRH's in the British RF (sorry to be morbid).
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  #4594  
Old 10-09-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Over the next decade or so I'd imagine there will be a clear out of the older HRH's in the British RF (sorry to be morbid).



Among the Queen's grandchildren and great-grandchildren, the only ones who can pass the HRH style to their children under current rules are William, Harry (when Charles is King), George (when Charles or William is King), and Louis (when William is King). So, if the rules are amended to limit the HRH to George's children only (and any eventual children of George's eldest child) , then the number of HRHs will naturally fall considerably as the older generation is replaced by newer ones.
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  #4595  
Old 10-09-2019, 05:56 PM
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Currently, HRH princess Alexandra, the Hon Lady Ogilvy is 53rd in line of succession; so far I haven't heard many complains about it. I do realize that she is considered a working member of the family but her brother HRH prince Michael of Kent (at 48) isn't and while people complain about him at times, I don't recall lots of people suggesting he relinquish his style of royal highness - but I might be mistaken.

Of course, perceptions might change in the future but it seems unlikely B and E will ever end up that far from the throne...
No I'm not aware of any complaints either but to be fair that wasn't actually my point. Nor was I saying it should happen just that I think that it makes sense to restrict these styles because essentially public opinion is headed in that direction - a so called "slimmed down" royal family.

The fact remains that they will stand out like a sore thumb(s) as people who in previous generations would have been HRH's are born & take their place ahead of the York women.
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  #4596  
Old 10-09-2019, 06:13 PM
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Over the next decade or so I'd imagine there will be a clear out of the older HRH's in the British RF (sorry to be morbid).
The Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra maybe but the others in the Queen's generation are only in their 70s. Given the longevity being displayed by the Windsors I would expect about another 20 years for those currently in their 70s - Michael, Marie-Christine, Richard, Birgitte, Camilla and Charles - and even the one who will join them next year - Anne.

I do think many people forget how close in age Charles is to Richard with only four years difference in age even though Richard is the Queen's generation and not Charles'.

I am not even sure that the Queen will have left us in a decade's time.
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  #4597  
Old 10-09-2019, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra maybe but the others in the Queen's generation are only in their 70s. Given the longevity being displayed by the Windsors I would expect about another 20 years for those currently in their 70s - Michael, Marie-Christine, Richard, Birgitte, Camilla and Charles - and even the one who will join them next year - Anne.

I do think many people forget how close in age Charles is to Richard with only four years difference in age even though Richard is the Queen's generation and not Charles'.

I am not even sure that the Queen will have left us in a decade's time.


When William is King, if the slimming down goes forward, the only HRHs around will likely be Andrew and Edward/Sophie ( only in the beginning of his reign probably) , Beatrice and Eugenie, Harry and Meghan, Charlotte, Louis, George and, then , George’s wife and children when he has then.

So, assuming as I am that neither Harry’s nor Charlotte’s or Louis’ children will be princes, we are looking at ten or so HRHs at most ten years into William’s reign, maybe 11 if George has two children and Louis also gets married.

So basically half ( ?) of the number of HRHs currently in the British RF.
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  #4598  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:40 PM
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I agree. I do think the BRF have made the decision to move forward with limiting HRH to only the children of the heir monarch and heir apparent in each generation but they haven't announced anything formally yet.

It will simply happen over time and then sometime in the future Charles, or more likely William will issue the formal Letters Patent to codify what will, by then, have become the standard practice anyway.
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  #4599  
Old 10-09-2019, 08:53 PM
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After the birth of Archie Mountbatten-Windsor, numerous reporters were informed by palace sources that "the George V convention" would apply in the next reign, which suggests that Prince Charles has no plans to alter King George V's Letters Patent of 1917.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m...-a4137941.html
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  #4600  
Old 10-09-2019, 10:29 PM
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No I'm not aware of any complaints either but to be fair that wasn't actually my point. Nor was I saying it should happen just that I think that it makes sense to restrict these styles because essentially public opinion is headed in that direction - a so called "slimmed down" royal family.

The fact remains that they will stand out like a sore thumb(s) as people who in previous generations would have been HRH's are born & take their place ahead of the York women.
The only ones who would have been HRH currently are Louise and James. We still have to see what happens to Archie (I have argued that he shouldn't be HRH as long as Louise and James aren't - otherwise I'd be fine with it).

Theoretically, it could be that Meghan just really doesn't like the sound of 'Earl of Dumbarton' and therefore prefers for him to be known as Archie but they could be fine with 'HRH prince Archie of Sussex'. We'll have to see what happens when Charles ascends the throne.
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