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  #4501  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by summrbrew2 View Post
thanks for the explanation. i got confused because i figured that when sophie married edward she would be a princess, but shes only a countess. i didnt know that the men kept thier origonal titles as well.
Diana wasn't technically a princess, people just called her that. So Sophie wouldn't have become a princess by marrying Edward.

"The Princess of Wales is not a princess in her own right. There have been some Princesses of Wales who were addressed as such: for example, Alexandra of Denmark and Mary of Teck were called "Princess Alexandra" and "Princess Victoria Mary", respectively. However, that was because they were already princesses when they married. Diana, Princess of Wales, was commonly called "Princess Diana" following her marriage to the Prince of Wales, but this was incorrect because she was not a princess in her own right."
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  #4502  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:37 AM
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Diana, Sarah, Sophie, Catherine and Meghan all became princesses and royal highnesses upon their marriage to their princes. Their status as princesses are not in doubt but as some other posters have pointed out its incorrect to style them as Princess first name.
For more info read this post by Marlene Koenig on the subject. http://royalmusingsblogspotcom.blogs...ss-of.html?m=1
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  #4503  
Old 09-27-2019, 10:38 AM
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Diana was legally The Princess Charles and/or The Princess of Wales. She was not a princess of the blood as the York girls or Anne are.

The Princess Diana thing was a media creation.


LaRae
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  #4504  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:05 AM
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And if we traced the royal line all the way back to the first ‘King’...would he not be a commoner chosen by the people to be King? So are all royalty actually commoners just the the first one picked to be King and somehow that makes everyone royal blood? Not trying to start an argument, I really am wondering about this.
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  #4505  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Diana was legally The Princess Charles and/or The Princess of Wales. She was not a princess of the blood as the York girls or Anne are.

The Princess Diana thing was a media creation.


LaRae
A good example to look at keeping Pranter's post in mind is to look at Princess Michael of Kent. This is how she is addressed as her husband, Prince Michael does not hold a peerage in the UK and therefore, Marie Christine, taking her title and style from her husband is therefore Princess Michael.
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  #4506  
Old 09-27-2019, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MsJulie View Post
And if we traced the royal line all the way back to the first ‘King’...would he not be a commoner chosen by the people to be King? So are all royalty actually commoners just the the first one picked to be King and somehow that makes everyone royal blood? Not trying to start an argument, I really am wondering about this.
There is no such thing as 'royal' blood. They are simply ppl like everyone else except by chance of birth they were born into a family that was either already ruling over their area (regardless of size) or ambitious enough to gain power/title as they went along. If you look at history of the U.K. there used to be multiple 'kings' and 'countries' within the U.K. as time progressed either by marriage or conquest etc they merged into larger sections until it is today.

If you look at the eighth century there were four kingdoms, Northumbria, Mercia, East Anglia and Wessex. Prior to that I think there were as many as 7 kingdoms.


LaRae
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  #4507  
Old 09-27-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
"The Princess of Wales is not a princess in her own right. There have been some Princesses of Wales who were addressed as such: for example, Alexandra of Denmark and Mary of Teck were called "Princess Alexandra" and "Princess Victoria Mary", respectively. However, that was because they were already princesses when they married. [...]"
Where and by whom were Alexandra and Victoria Mary addressed as Princess Alexandra and Princess Victoria Mary while they were Princesses of Wales? As far as I am aware they, as with other wives of Princes of Wales, were addressed as HRH The Princess of Wales.
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  #4508  
Old 09-27-2019, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Diana was legally The Princess Charles and/or The Princess of Wales. She was not a princess of the blood as the York girls or Anne are.

The Princess Diana thing was a media creation.


LaRae
Indeed, and she was also The Duchess of Rothesay in Scotland, The Duchess of Cornwall in Cornwall. The "Princess Diana" thing irritates me wild but it is better than "Meghan Markle" the gutter press sticks to...
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  #4509  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:15 PM
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I know Zara doesn't have the title of princess because her mother wanted her to live a normal life and requested she not have the title, but now as an adult, if Zara wanted a title, could she ask the Queen to give it to her?
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  #4510  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
I know Zara doesn't have the title of princess because her mother wanted her to live a normal life and requested she not have the title, but now as an adult, if Zara wanted a title, could she ask the Queen to give it to her?
A princess title was never an option as she isn't the daughter of a prince. She could have been a lady had her father accepted a peerage; just like her mother's cousin Lady Sarah.

And no, the queen would not just grant Zara a title out of the blue. Her only chance would have been to convince her father to accept a title (and convince the queen of offering it again) - but that would be very unlikely had they still been married and completely out of the question as her parents have been divorced for a very long time.
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  #4511  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
A princess title was never an option as she isn't the daughter of a prince. She could have been a lady had her father accepted a peerage; just like her mother's cousin Lady Sarah.

And no, the queen would not just grant Zara a title out of the blue. Her only chance would have been to convince her father to accept a title (and convince the queen of offering it again) - but that would be very unlikely had they still been married and completely out of the question as her parents have been divorced for a very long time.
Ah...okay. So why is Anne called Princess Royal and not just Princess Anne?
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  #4512  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
Ah...okay. So why is Anne called Princess Royal and not just Princess Anne?
Edit: moved the answer to the appropriate thread.
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  #4513  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
Ah...okay. So why is Anne called Princess Royal and not just Princess Anne?
Because it's a title given for life to the oldest daughter of the British monarch. She can't pass it down to her daughter. It's not automatic and Elizabeth never had it because her Aunt Mary had it until she died well after Elizabeth was already The Queen and Anne was born.

It's possible that it will be awarded to Charlotte when Anne dies but again it's not automatic and it could even be George's very hypothetical daughter before it's awarded again. Anne wasn't awarded it until nearly 20 years after her Great Aunt died.
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  #4514  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
Ah...okay. So why is Anne called Princess Royal and not just Princess Anne?
She was:
Princess Anne of Edinburgh (until her mother ascended the throne in 1952)
The Princess Anne (from 1952 until her marriage in 1973)
The Princess Anne, mrs Mark Phillips (from her marriage until 1987 when her mother made her 'The Princess Royal')
The Princess Royal (from 1987 - a title sometimes awarded to the eldest daughter of the monarch if the previous holder died - but it isn't automatic!)

So, princess Charlotte of Cambridge is expected to become the next Princess Royal; but for that to happen her great-aunt needs to have died, her father needs to be king and he needs to decide to grant her that title.

See Wikipedia for more information on the Princess Royal title.

I still like how William and Catherine picked the perfect name for a future Princess Royal.

1. Mary (1642-1660)
2. Anne (1727-1759)
3. Charlotte (1789-1828)
4. Victoria (1841-1901)
5. Louise (1905-1931)

6. Mary (1932-1965)
7. Anne (1987-now)
8. Charlotte?!
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  #4515  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
She was:
Princess Anne of Edinburgh (until her mother ascended the throne in 1952)
The Princess Anne (from 1952 until her marriage in 1973)
The Princess Anne, mrs Mark Phillips (from her marriage until 1983 when her mother made her 'The Princess Royal')
The Princess Royal (from 1983 - a title sometimes awarded to the eldest daughter of the monarch if the previous holder died - but it isn't automatic!)

So, princess Charlotte of Cambridge is expected to become the next Princess Royal; but for that to happen her great-aunt needs to have died, her father needs to be king and he needs to decide to grant her that title.

See Wikipedia for more information on the Princess Royal title.
Oh okay, so Princess Royal isn't a downgrade, it is actually an upgrade to just being Princess because you are the oldest daughter of the King/Queen. Gotcha.
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  #4516  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
A princess title was never an option as she isn't the daughter of a prince. She could have been a lady had her father accepted a peerage; just like her mother's cousin Lady Sarah.

And no, the queen would not just grant Zara a title out of the blue. Her only chance would have been to convince her father to accept a title (and convince the queen of offering it again) - but that would be very unlikely had they still been married and completely out of the question as her parents have been divorced for a very long time.
And a secondary question for you. You said Zara couldn't have been a princess because she isn't the daughter of a prince. So then why are Edward's children not prince and princess? Aren't they Lord and Lady...or something along those lines?
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  #4517  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
Oh okay, so Princess Royal isn't a downgrade, it is actually an upgrade to just being Princess because you are the oldest daughter of the King/Queen. Gotcha.
No it's most certainly not a downgrade. It's as close to the female equivalent of being POW (which also isn't automatic) as you were likely to get before equal primogeniture came into law in 2015.
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  #4518  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
No it's most certainly not a downgrade. It's as close to the female equivalent of being POW (which also isn't automatic) as you were likely to get before equal primogeniture came into law in 2015.
So Edward's children are known as James, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor because their father turned down the title of Duke of Cambridge upon his wedding day. I read (and I don't know how true this is) that he did so because he is holding out for the title of Duke of Edinburgh upon his father's passing. If that happens would his children then become Prince and Princess?
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  #4519  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
So Edward's children are known as James, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor because their father turned down the title of Duke of Cambridge upon his wedding day. I read (and I don't know how true this is) that he did so because he is holding out for the title of Duke of Edinburgh upon his father's passing. If that happens would his children then become Prince and Princess?
James and Louise could already be HRH Prince James of Wessex and HRH Princess Louise of Wessex like his two elder brothers' children. However they are styled as children of an Earl, as was the wish of the parents. See the wish of the Duke and Duke of Sussex that their son Lord Archibald Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Dumbarton, is not known as such. A personal choice can overturn an official style.
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  #4520  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MissPeach77 View Post
So Edward's children are known as James, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Windsor because their father turned down the title of Duke of Cambridge upon his wedding day. I read (and I don't know how true this is) that he did so because he is holding out for the title of Duke of Edinburgh upon his father's passing. If that happens would his children then become Prince and Princess?
Edward was not offered DoC as far as we know. It's one of a few Royal Dukedoms that were available and uncontroversial. Sussex was another one which is why it was a high guess for both Wales boys when they married.

There's been no formal announcement but it seems likely that Edward will be re created DoE when his father dies allowing him to be a Duke and his father to pass his title on to one of his sons.

His children are already legally HRH Prince and Princess of Wessex, but their parents have chosen for them to be known by the styles of a non HRH Earl to give them a more normal, low key life. it is also thought that the reputation/lower popularity of the monarchy when they married (1999 less than 2 years after Diana's death) contributed to this decision, which was announced at their marriage.

If Edward is created DoE then it is possible Viscount Severn will take up Wessex as a subsidiary title of DoE or a different one. Lady Louise won't receive anything different.
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