The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #3221  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:40 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
No. Same situation was William didn’t use Duke of Cambridge in the French case. The government doesn’t recognize it as legal name.
Yet they will recognized Meghan's title? They already calling her a princess

Thank you for the answers. This is a lot clearer now.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3222  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:42 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lewisville, United States
Posts: 847
The IRS doesn't care about titles, just names and social security numbers.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #3223  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:42 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
Ish to the rescue! Would Jamie Lee Curtis be addressed as Lady Haden-Guest on her tax returns? I think that’s where the confusion is here. Will Meghan be entitled to be addressed by her royal title and style in a legal setting in the US?
I believe that on legal documents in the US, Ms Curtis would still be Ms Jamie Lee Curtis or Mrs. Jamie Lee Guest, whichever she uses as her legal name. But certainly in the UK or certain other occasions there is no issue with her being Lady Haden-Guest. So Meghan's US passport might say her name is Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor, but people would still call her HRH Duchess of whatever.

In France there is no legal recognition of titles or married names. When the Cambridges filed their lawsuit in France they were listed as Catherine Middleton and William Mountbatten-Windsor.
Reply With Quote
  #3224  
Old 12-19-2017, 07:44 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaudete View Post
I imagine Meghan’s legal affairs in the US would only be restricted to private IRS correspondence anyway after her marriage and permanent relocation. In public she’ll always be called by her proper title so I wouldn’t have thought it’ll ever be an issue but thanks for the clarification on this one. It had been at the back of my mind too!
She'll still have a US passport as well.
Reply With Quote
  #3225  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:00 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Yet they will recognized Meghan's title? They already calling her a princess

Thank you for the answers. This is a lot clearer now.
Technically she is going to be a Princess - she just won't be styled as Princess if Harry gets a Dukedom and she'll never be Princess Meghan. Not that that'll stop the US media...

I would expect her titles to be recognized in most official purposes; if she and Harry go on a visit to Washington, they'll be received as HRH The Duke and Duchess of Sussex (or wherever). She might legally be in the US Rachel Meghan Markle, but if she attends an official dinner at the White House her place name is going to say HRH The Duchess of Sussex (or wherever).

If I was in Meghan's shoes, I don't know that I'd necessarily change my legal name in the US after marriage. It would be paperwork, hassle, and expense that isn't necessary - it really would only change the name she uses on her taxes and driver's license.
Reply With Quote
  #3226  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:03 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post

If I was in Meghan's shoes, I don't know that I'd necessarily change my legal name in the US after marriage. It would be paperwork, hassle, and expense that isn't necessary - it really would only change the name she uses on her taxes and driver's license.
That’s what I was thinking too. She can changed passports with name change by mail, but she’d have to change her name on her social security card in person. However, what’d her legal name in U.K. be? It might create some additional drama in the press. I can’t remember how Kate’s name was filled out on the children’s birth certificates?
Reply With Quote
  #3227  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:06 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lewisville, United States
Posts: 847
She doesn't have to change her social security card in person--I've done it myself. All you have to do is mail in a copy of your marriage certificate.
Reply With Quote
  #3228  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:08 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curbside View Post
She doesn't have to change her social security card in person--I've done it myself. All you have to do is mail in a copy of your marriage certificate.
Hmm, didn’t know that. I ended up going to the place to change my name. Poop, could’ve saved myself a trip. But regardless, can all other legal docs be done this way?
Reply With Quote
  #3229  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:10 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Technically she is going to be a Princess - she just won't be styled as Princess if Harry gets a Dukedom and she'll never be Princess Meghan. Not that that'll stop the US media...

I would expect her titles to be recognized in most official purposes; if she and Harry go on a visit to Washington, they'll be received as HRH The Duke and Duchess of Sussex (or wherever). She might legally be in the US Rachel Meghan Markle, but if she attends an official dinner at the White House her place name is going to say HRH The Duchess of Sussex (or wherever).

If I was in Meghan's shoes, I don't know that I'd necessarily change my legal name in the US after marriage. It would be paperwork, hassle, and expense that isn't necessary - it really would only change the name she uses on her taxes and driver's license.
Haha, yes I know. They will call her Princess Meghan until their hearts content. They call Catherine "Princess Kate" all the time here as well. So I expect nothing less. It is no biggie. Good point about the bolded. I would imagine it is quite the hassle besides it will also be temporary. Not worth it.
Reply With Quote
  #3230  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:23 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: *******, Canada
Posts: 8,908
Meghan will be Duchess of xxxx by courtesy. It’s not substantive. It’s Harry who will be granted the peerage
Reply With Quote
  #3231  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:25 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 4,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
That’s what I was thinking too. She can changed passports with name change by mail, but she’d have to change her name on her social security card in person. However, what’d her legal name in U.K. be? It might create some additional drama in the press. I can’t remember how Kate’s name was filled out on the children’s birth certificates?
Kate's name was filled out on George's birth certificate as Catherine Elizabeth Her Royal Highness the Duchess of Cambridge". William was "His Royal Highness Prince William Arthur Philip Louis Duke of Cambridge".

For the legal name change... according to gov.uk, "You don’t need a deed poll to take your spouse’s or civil partner’s surname. Send a copy of your marriage or civil partnership certificate to record-holders, such as benefits offices. Your documents will be updated for free." I'm not sure, though, how that works when you're a foreigner marrying a royal.
Reply With Quote
  #3232  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:26 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Lewisville, United States
Posts: 847
I did my driver's license in person, but I needed to renew it anyway (I'm in Texas). My employer just needed my marriage certificate. For credit reporting purposes, I just started using my new name and had no issues. Oddly enough, getting PayPal to change my name was a huge hassle and I wound up not doing it. Too much trouble.

My mother never changed her legal name, but she does use my father's surname socially.
Reply With Quote
  #3233  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:29 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wherever, United States
Posts: 5,875
I’m assuming if she changes her name in any form in U.K., she’d have to change it in US. Does anyone know differently?
Reply With Quote
  #3234  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:46 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
However, what’d her legal name in U.K. be? It might create some additional drama in the press. I can’t remember how Kate’s name was filled out on the children’s birth certificates?
In the Name and surname block of George's birth certificate--
Catherine Elizabeth Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge

So I imagine Meghan's legal name in the UK will be
Rachel Meghan Her Royal Highness The Duchess of whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #3235  
Old 12-19-2017, 08:49 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
In the Name and surname block of George's birth certificate--
Catherine Elizabeth Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge

So I imagine Meghan's legal name in the UK will be
Rachel Meghan Her Royal Highness The Duchess of whatever.
So fascinating. Also why do the guys informally have Wales as their last name and not Mountbatten-Windsor because that is technically their last name, right?

This stuff so confusing. No wonder people just be like "Prince and Princess" and keep it moving.
Reply With Quote
  #3236  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:00 PM
O-H Anglophile's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
So fascinating. Also why do the guys informally have Wales as their last name and not Mountbatten-Windsor because that is technically their last name, right?

This stuff so confusing. No wonder people just be like "Prince and Princess" and keep it moving.
Because folks with royal titles often use the title name as their last name when they need one. Technically they don't have a last name since they are royal princes and princesses. Occasionally, they need to legally use Mountbatten-Windsor like William did in William & Kate's French lawsuit.

So the Prince of Wales's sons were known as
William Wales and Harry Wales

The Duke of York's daughters usually use
Beatrice York and Eugenie York

I remember there being a report of Kate giving the name Mrs Cambridge at a store when she and William still lived in Wales.
Reply With Quote
  #3237  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:11 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 13,219
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
So fascinating. Also why do the guys informally have Wales as their last name and not Mountbatten-Windsor because that is technically their last name, right?

This stuff so confusing. No wonder people just be like "Prince and Princess" and keep it moving.
Wales, York etc are used to really distinguish the line e.g. Queen Victoria had four sons and a number of grandchildren named Albert or Victoria so it was helpful to use 'of Wales' or 'of Cambridge' to identify which child was actually being referenced.

Today we have two Prince Edwards. One of the reasons why we know which one is the focus of the discussion is that one is 'of Wessex' while the other is 'of Kent' so imagine what it was like with four or five with the same name.

The beauty of the UK system is that only those born as a Prince or Princess are able to use their birth name. Any wife is Princess husband's name - again to show that she is the wife of which prince so everyone knows that the Duchess of Cambridge is the wife of the Duke just as they know that Princess Michael is the wife of Prince Michael. If they all because Princess with their own names again there could be confusion about what the relationship is. The British even referred to Prince Philip's mother as Princess Andrew of Greece after her marriage even though she was born Princess Alice of Hesse.

Some people find it confusing but it does make sense if you think of it like any family where the wife takes the husband's name as do the children but use the title rather than the actual surname if there is one.

In time, if William's third child is a boy and Harry has son/s their descendants will be 'Mountbatten-Windsor's' as Lady Louise is today but while they are HRHs they use their father's titles.

The Dukes of Gloucester and Kent (and siblings) when children' were 'of Kent' but their children are now 'Windsor' (except Alexandra's of course who took their father's name).
Reply With Quote
  #3238  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:14 PM
wbenson's Avatar
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: -, United States
Posts: 2,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-H Anglophile View Post
In the Name and surname block of George's birth certificate--
Catherine Elizabeth Her Royal Highness The Duchess of Cambridge

So I imagine Meghan's legal name in the UK will be
Rachel Meghan Her Royal Highness The Duchess of whatever.
Those aren't necessarily consistent, though. In 1988, Sarah was just "Her Royal Highness the Duchess of York."
Reply With Quote
  #3239  
Old 12-19-2017, 09:37 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,769
Thanks for the explanation. I think I understand now.
Reply With Quote
  #3240  
Old 12-19-2017, 10:42 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 12,817
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbenson View Post
Those aren't necessarily consistent, though. In 1988, Sarah was just "Her Royal Highness the Duchess of York."
No, Sarah on legal paper work would have been similar. They are all the same.

HRH Princess William, Duchess of Cambridge

HRH Princess Harry, Duchess of X

HRH Princess Andrew, Duchess of York.

But when they require a last name, their title will not work. The children of a duke use the designation. Harry Wales, George Cambridge, Beatrice York. The wives seem to use the form that divorcees use ie Catherine Elizabeth, Duchess of Cambridge. Where the title stands as the surname.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
british royal family, consort, duke of york, kate, princess beatrice, queenmother, spouse, styles and titles, titles uk styles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Non-British Styles and Titles Lord Sosnowitz Royal Ceremony and Protocol 792 08-22-2021 12:16 PM
Abdication Beatrix and Inauguration WA: Titles, Names, Succession, Precedence Princess Robijn King Willem-Alexander, Queen Máxima and family 78 08-21-2021 07:14 AM
Diana's Styles and Titles florawindsor Diana, Princess of Wales (1961-1997) 894 11-26-2019 11:04 PM
Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children Aussie Princess The Duke and Duchess of Sussex and Family 1897 11-29-2017 03:13 AM
Styles and Titles Nahla10 Ruling Family of Dubai 50 06-02-2017 02:28 PM




Popular Tags
american archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian british british royal family camilla camilla's family camilla parker-bowles camilla parker bowles carolin china china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing chinese clarence house commonwealth countries coronation crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice dresses duchess of sussex duke of sussex edward vii family tree genetics george vi gradenigo harry and meghan hello! highgrove history hochberg house of windsor hypothetical monarchs japan japanese imperial family japan history jewellery kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos książ castle liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers meghan markle monarchists monarchy mongolia pless politics portugal prince harry queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry solomon j solomon spanish royal family st edward sussex suthida thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:57 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×