Order of the Garter, Ceremonies and Information 1: 2003 - 2021


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(IMHO, Tim needs to pick up Royal duties.)

Tim already has enough things to do..
I always prefer men marrying into royal family have their own careers, not giving a damn for titles and fancy uniforms. Actually the way these men (right from DoE) were and are treated is heights of gender discrimination, which no one conveniently notices..
 
Tim already has enough things to do..
I always prefer men marrying into royal family have their own careers, not giving a damn for titles and fancy uniforms. Actually the way these men (right from DoE) were and are treated is heights of gender discrimination, which no one conveniently notices..

You've made a good point here.

We'll see how it comes up if/when Beatrice announces an engagement to Dave Clark.

(walks off singing "Glad All Over")
 
Hi,

The Queen's robe contains a train carried by two pages.

My question is:
If Camilla and/or Catherine were made Ladies of the Garter, would they also have a train?
Did The Queen Mother have a trian and pages when she was in the procession?

Thank you for your reply.

Larry
 
Hi,

The Queen's robe contains a train carried by two pages.

My question is:
If Camilla and/or Catherine were made Ladies of the Garter, would they also have a train?
Did The Queen Mother have a trian and pages when she was in the procession?

Thank you for your reply.

Larry

Queen Mother next to Charles;
http://www.art247.com/images/large/MIRRORPIX/WA/WA612190.jpg

Princess Alexandra;
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...ss.com%2Ftag%2Forder-of-the-garter%2F;341;512

This is The Queen's which I assume is longer because she's the Monarch so Camilla and Catherine may or may not depending upon if this is reserved for Queen Regnants and not Consorts. You can't really tell from the QM photos. :flowers:
http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Queen+Elizabeth+II+Queen+Elizabeth+II+Members+SfKczHRuVRrx.jpg

Correction QM has her train being carried by a page.
http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/4/1/7/9/2/3/webimg/478759179_tp.jpg
 
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It's going to be beautiful to see when Camilla and Catherine become members of the Order of the Garter at some point down the line.
 
Hi,

Again - thanks for the replies and the photos.
I love the pomp and circumstance of the Garter Ceremony; and if you're lucky enough to be in the crowd, thn you see the Royals & Knights up close...
It must be thrilling!!!

Larry
 
Tim already has enough things to do..
I always prefer men marrying into royal family have their own careers, not giving a damn for titles and fancy uniforms. Actually the way these men (right from DoE) were and are treated is heights of gender discrimination, which no one conveniently notices..

That is why there is a double standard.

If Camilla only attended the ceremonial functions like Tim without doing the charity work they would have gone after her head a long time ago. (They still did.)

Except for Phillip, when a man marries into the royal family he gets the perks w/o the work. The women have to work or else the media goes after them.

Not only Camilla, but Sarah and Kate. The media/public expects the women to work and they are criticized for not doing enough but the men are left to their careers. Well Camilla's chosen career was as wife, mother and grandmother, why should she be expected to do the 'grunge' work as her predecessor called it but not the men who marry into the family.

Tim is always at the 'good' events with prime seating ie: Ascot, Olympics, etc. but none of the 'grunge' work. Image Camilla at Ascot, Trooping the Color etc riding along the Queen w/o doing any charity work. What howls would we be hearing?

(It's nice to know he is doing charity work, did wonder what he was up to after retiring.)
 
I think the argument is that a woman marries into a family, not a man. Traditionally, female members of a family would marry into her husband's family and leave her own behind, not the other way around.

Thus, Camilla, Sarah, Diana, Catherine, and Sophie all married into the royal family and gained the status and titles associated with it. Each of them became, upon their marriage, an HRH, and had to do the grunt work that came with it.

Tim and Mark didn't marry into the family, instead Anne married into theirs. Thus while Anne continues to do engagements on behalf of her family, Tim isn't an HRH and isn't part of the royal family, nor was Mark during his marriage. Philip is an exception; typically when he married Princess Elisabeth she would have become a Greek Royal, but because of her status as the heir instead he became a British Royal.
 
That is why there is a double standard.

If Camilla only attended the ceremonial functions like Tim without doing the charity work they would have gone after her head a long time ago. (They still did.)

Tim is always at the 'good' events with prime seating ie: Ascot, Olympics, etc. but none of the 'grunge' work. Image Camilla at Ascot, Trooping the Color etc riding along the Queen w/o doing any charity work. What howls would we be hearing?

Isn't this essentially what William and Harry do most of the time? Pursue their own careers mainly, and turn up only to the major events on the royal calender? The difference being when William and Harry perform a charity function, they represent the monarchy. When Tim does something on his own without Anne, he represents only himself or an organisation he has chosen to join.

Let us put the shoe on the other foot. Do you think the media would have gone after Camilla/Sophie/Diana/Sarah/Catherine's head for not doing enough charity work if any of them had been working full time in the military like William/Harry/Andrew/Tim?

It's interesting to think about.
 
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Women who marry into the RF work for the Firm.
Men who marry into the RF don't. (Except Phillip)

The RF benefits more when they have boys as both the son & his wife are expected to work for the family firm.

Tamue00,
Camilla was in her late 50s too late to enter the military. She was already doing charity work and was patron/president of four organizations before she married.

Sophie did work early in her marriage.

Catherine, Diana and Sarah and later Sophie did what neither of the men do and that is carry a child.

If William had HG would he still have been flying or would he have been on medical leave? A woman is expected to work while pregnant. She has no time off during her pregnancy from being pregnant, but her husband is given time off from his work.

When men start equally sharing the burden of pregnancy then we talk about the role of men and women equally.

But back to Tim & his perks.

He gets the perks only because he is married to PA but the girls have to work for their perks.
 

But wouldn't the Queen Mother's train still be carried because she was a former Queen Regant and Empress while her husband was alive? It seems that the Queen Consort or in this case Princess Consort wouldn't be accorded the same honors. Just a question --I know you know more about this than me.
 
But wouldn't the Queen Mother's train still be carried because she was a former Queen Regant and Empress while her husband was alive? It seems that the Queen Consort or in this case Princess Consort wouldn't be accorded the same honors. Just a question --I know you know more about this than me.


The Queen Mother was never a Queen Regnant. She was Queen Consort to her husband during his reign and then Queen Mother when her daughter became The Queen Regnant.
 
The Queen Mother was never a Queen Regnant. She was Queen Consort to her husband during his reign and then Queen Mother when her daughter became The Queen Regnant.

Thanks. It was confusing.
 
To make it easier:

Queen Regnant = a reigning monarch in their own right e.g Victoria and Elizabeth II

Queen Consort = the wife of a reigning monarch e.g. Alexandra - Consort of Edward VII, Mary - Consort of George V

Queen Mother = the mother of the reigning monarch who has already been a Queen Consort e.g. Elizabeth the Queen Mother - Consort of George VI and Mother of Elizabeth II

Dowager Queen = the widow of a King who has been a Queen Consort and who may or may not be the Queen Mother e.g. Adelaide - Consort of William IV but not the mother of Victoria so she couldn't be The Queen Mother but she was The Dowager Queen (although always referred to as Queen Adelaide).
 
To make it easier:

Queen Regnant = a reigning monarch in their own right e.g Victoria and Elizabeth II

Queen Consort = the wife of a reigning monarch e.g. Alexandra - Consort of Edward VII, Mary - Consort of George V

Queen Mother = the mother of the reigning monarch who has already been a Queen Consort e.g. Elizabeth the Queen Mother - Consort of George VI and Mother of Elizabeth II

Dowager Queen = the widow of a King who has been a Queen Consort and who may or may not be the Queen Mother e.g. Adelaide - Consort of William IV but not the mother of Victoria so she couldn't be The Queen Mother but she was The Dowager Queen (although always referred to as Queen Adelaide).

Thanks so does that mean that Queen Mother was also a dowager queen as well but I guess only one title will be used? Is there any preferential treatment for Queen/King Mother over a Dowager Queen?
 
Thanks so does that mean that Queen Mother was also a dowager queen as well but I guess only one title will be used? Is there any preferential treatment for Queen/King Mother over a Dowager Queen?
When her titles were read out at her funeral she was called "Princess Elizabeth, Queen Mother and Queen Dowager. Mother of Queen Elizabeth II and relic of King George VI".
There is no such title as King Mother even if you are the mother of the new King you are still Queen Mother because you have been a Queen Consort and are the mother of the new monarch.
Most women today prefer not to be called a dowager. Neither title, Queen Mother or Queen Dowager" needs to be officially used. Qu.een Elizabeth The Queen Mother used it to differentiate herself from her daughter the Queen regnant. Queen Allexandra and Queen Mary were just known by their names although both could have used either title at different times in their widowhoods.
 
Thanks so does that mean that Queen Mother was also a dowager queen as well but I guess only one title will be used? Is there any preferential treatment for Queen/King Mother over a Dowager Queen?

As has been pointed out there is no title "King Mother." The mistake is a common one though, as people assume that the title Queen Mother means "the Queen's mother," which it doesn't. Instead it means "a former Queen consort who is a mother of a current regnant." The sex (and thus title) of the regnant doesn't play into it.

Dowager Queen vs. Queen Mother is kind of based on the situation and the preference of the individual. Most dowagers/queen mothers aren't known as anything beyond Queen X. When their husband is reigning they are The Queen, and when he dies they become Queen X, and The Queen becomes either the new monarch or his wife.

In the case of QEQM, what happened was at the time of KGVI's death there were 3 queens; Mary, QEQM, and HM. One was The Queen, of course, but she was also Elizabeth II, while the other was Queen Elizabeth, and the third was Queen Mary. To kind of help keep everything straight, QEQM formally used the Queen Mother title so that she could be distinguished from her daughter (the Queen) and her mother-in-law (the other dowager queen).
 
As has been pointed out there is no title "King Mother." The mistake is a common one though, as people assume that the title Queen Mother means "the Queen's mother," which it doesn't. Instead it means "a former Queen consort who is a mother of a current regnant." The sex (and thus title) of the regnant doesn't play into it.

Dowager Queen vs. Queen Mother is kind of based on the situation and the preference of the individual. Most dowagers/queen mothers aren't known as anything beyond Queen X. When their husband is reigning they are The Queen, and when he dies they become Queen X, and The Queen becomes either the new monarch or his wife.

In the case of QEQM, what happened was at the time of KGVI's death there were 3 queens; Mary, QEQM, and HM. One was The Queen, of course, but she was also Elizabeth II, while the other was Queen Elizabeth, and the third was Queen Mary. To kind of help keep everything straight, QEQM formally used the Queen Mother title so that she could be distinguished from her daughter (the Queen) and her mother-in-law (the other dowager queen).

Got it Thanks. That's why I really like this forum --always opportunities to learn. You all are so Knowledgeable.
 
Thanks so does that mean that Queen Mother was also a dowager queen as well but I guess only one title will be used? Is there any preferential treatment for Queen/King Mother over a Dowager Queen?

Yes the Queen Mother was also the Queen Dowager or Dowarger Queen.

The order of precedence for Consorts of deceased monarchs is the reverse order of their husbands so at the beginning of The Queen's reign she was of course first, then her mother and then Queen Mary.

Philip was given precedence and preeminence next to The Queen, except when provided by law but when he was somewhere without The Queen then his mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law were ahead of him (as much by his desire I suspect being a gentlemen).
 
Yes the Queen Mother was also the Queen Dowager or Dowarger Queen.

The order of precedence for Consorts of deceased monarchs is the reverse order of their husbands so at the beginning of The Queen's reign she was of course first, then her mother and then Queen Mary.

Philip was given precedence and preeminence next to The Queen, except when provided by law but when he was somewhere without The Queen then his mother-in-law and grandmother-in-law were ahead of him (as much by his desire I suspect being a gentlemen).

Thanks dropping some knowledge !
 
I'm always looking forward to this ceremony. The new appointments are pretty much the same old thing and nothing exciting about that but the ceremony is the best part.
 
New companions for Order of the Garter announced | Royal Central

Mervyn King, Baron King of Lothbury former head of the Bank of England and Baroness Eliza Manningham-Butler former Director General of MI5 are to be given The Order of the Garter this summer.

They fill 2 out of 3 of the empty spaces that were made available last year.
Baroness Manningham-Buller is the daughter of 1st Viscount Dilhorne and Lady Mary Lilian Lindsay, daughter of 27th Earl of Crawford.
 
Suppose it's too late to appoint a new member now, with the service 2 weeks away....
 
The Queen normally announces new members on St George's Day which she did this year.

It would also be bad form to create a replacement knight before the deceased holder's garter etc have been returned to the Sovereign and that won't happen for a few months at least.

It would also be bad form to announce a new knight so soon after the death of a knight - while the family is still in mourning.
 
Joe Little @MajestyMagazine · 6h
It's Garter Day at Windsor. The Queen and members of her family will attend a service at St George's Chapel at 3pm.

Richard Palmer @RoyalReporter · 1m
The Duchess of Cornwall is missing from Garter Day here in Windsor, with a bad cold. The Duchess of Cambridge is expected, aides say.
 
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