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  #501  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
15th of May 1464 - Execution of Henry Beaufort, 3rd Duke of Somerset,Earl of Somerset.

Henry Beaufort was a leading Lancastrian military commander during the English Wars of the Roses and was beheaded after their defeat at the at the Battle of Hexham,his remains were buried at Hexham Abbey.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_...ke_of_Somerset

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hexham

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexham_Abbey
Neither side messed about when it came to dispatching their enemies at this time. The viciousness of this sort of summary justice (Edward of Westminster is another example) had become commonplace during these dynastic squabbles. The Battle of Towton, three years before Hexham, had been a truly dreadful slaughter where no quarter had been given. Sometimes these conflicts, the Wars of the Roses, are romanticized too much.
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  #502  
Old 05-17-2020, 04:55 PM
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And those who lost out during the Yorkist victories had their lands and titles restored under the Tudors,how the wheel changes!
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  #503  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:01 PM
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And those who lost out during the Yorkist victories had their lands and titles restored under the Tudors,how the wheel changes!
Yes indeed it does. Henry Tudor was very clever at ensuring the survival of his dynasty & bringing an end to the conflict.
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  #504  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Yes indeed it does. Henry Tudor was very clever at ensuring the survival of his dynasty & bringing an end to the conflict.
And her rewarded those loyal to him like the son of Henry Beaufort, 3rd Duke of Somerset who's land and titles were restored.

I'd hate to be on the wrong side of him
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  #505  
Old 05-17-2020, 05:23 PM
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And her rewarded those loyal to him like the son of Henry Beaufort, 3rd Duke of Somerset who's land and titles were restored.

I'd hate to be on the wrong side of him
Or his mother!
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  #506  
Old 05-17-2020, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Gawin View Post
No, LauraS354 is correct. Richard Duke of York argued he had a better claim to the throne than Henry VI because he descended from the second surviving son of Edward III while Henry descended from the third son.

Think about it. How would his patrilineal line from a fourth son trump Henry's own patrilineal line from the third son?

The Salic Law didn't exist in England. Edward III based his hereditary claim to France through his mother.
Yes but Edward III on his death entailed the throne to his grandson Richard II but with his heirs to be 'his closest Male relatives'. That is why John of Gaunt and his son Henry (future Henry IV) were the heirs to Richard II. Lionel had died 9 years before his father, leaving John the senior male after his nephew.

Richard and his sons took their claim from being descended from Edward III. Edward III dictated the throne should pass to his Male heirs. By that measure, their descent from Edmund (and in a direct male line) made that claim much stronger then his descent from Lionel.

Its very much the same reason Henry VII married Edward's daughter. He knew his claim was weaker because it was through the female line. By marrying a male line descendent, he strengthened the claim of himself and his children.
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  #507  
Old 05-17-2020, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Yes but Edward III on his death entailed the throne to his grandson Richard II but with his heirs to be 'his closest Male relatives'. That is why John of Gaunt and his son Henry (future Henry IV) were the heirs to Richard II. Lionel had died 9 years before his father, leaving John the senior male after his nephew.

Richard and his sons took their claim from being descended from Edward III. Edward III dictated the throne should pass to his Male heirs. By that measure, their descent from Edmund (and in a direct male line) made that claim much stronger then his descent from Lionel.
No, on October 16, 1460 a representative for Richard Duke of York entered Parliament and specifically claimed the throne on his behalf through his descent from Lionel Duke of Clarence, the second son of Edward III.
Following your own argument, how would his descent from Edmund Duke of York (Edward's fourth son) give him a better claim than Henry VI, who was the great-grandson and heir of John of Gaunt?

Besides, Edward III's entail reflected his own personal wish. It wasn't binding on his successors and its contents weren't widely known. It's even possible he may have rescinded it before his death. There is evidence that Richard II may have preferred Roger Mortimer as his heir over John of Gaunt whom he mistrusted (Roger was the grandson of Lionel Duke of Clarence and Richard Duke of York's grandfather).

Henry IV did not succeed Richard II because he was his legal heir, he succeeded him because he had seized the throne. Roger Mortimer was already dead and his own son was a child incapable of challenging Henry. Henry IV also considered claiming the throne through his mother's descent from Edmund Earl of Lancaster, alleging that he (not Edward I) was the oldest of Henry III.

Source: Michael Bennett, "Edward III's Entail and the Succession to the Crown,1376-1471," English Historical Review, Vol. 113, June 1998, pp. 580-609.

Quote:
Its very much the same reason Henry VII married Edward's daughter. He knew his claim was weaker because it was through the female line. By marrying a male line descendent, he strengthened the claim of himself and his children.
No, Henry VII did not believe his claim was weaker than his wife's. He married her to unite two warring factions. Otherwise, why did he wait four months before he married Elizabeth, after he had already been crowned king and after a papal dispensation had already been granted? If Elizabeth's claim was better than his, he would have snapped her up immediately, before someone else did. Besides, the children of Edward IV (including Elizabeth) were declared bastards by Parliament during the reign of Richard III and therefore had no succession rights. Henry did not reverse this until after his marriage.

Finally, marrying Elizabeth did not erase the fact that her first cousin Edward Earl of Warwick was Edward III's male heir and should have been king if the entail had been followed.

Source: David Johnson, "Ardent Suitor or Reluctant Groom? Henry VII and Elizabeth of York," Ricardian Bulletin, March 2020, pp.37-41.
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  #508  
Old 05-22-2020, 04:42 PM
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On this day,May 22nd 1409 : Death of Blanche of Lancaster

Daughter of Henry IV and Mary de Bohun ,Blanche was born in 1392 and was later married to Louis III, Elector Palatine.Blanche gave birth to a son Rupert in 1406 but died in 1409 aged just 17. Her remains are buried at the Collegiate Church in Neustadt .

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  #509  
Old 05-23-2020, 12:28 AM
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Named for her paternal grandmother, also known as Blanche of Lancaster. Her paternal grandfather John of Gaunt became Duke of Lancaster after the death of his father in law Henry of Grosmont. The title had gone extinct as Henry only had daughters, and was created for Blanche's husband.

Her son Rupert would die at the age of 20. He died 10 years before his father so Louis was succeeded by his eldest son from his second marriage.


May 23, 1533 the marriage of Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon was annulled. The couple had been married for nearly 24 years, married June 11, 1509. Catherine was 48 and Henry was 42.

Catherine was the youngest child of Ferdinand and Isabella of Spain. To note the only 2 marriages Henry annulled (2 beheaded, 1 died and one survived) were his only two wives who were princesses by birth.

Catherine first came to England to marry Henry's brother Arthur. They were married November 14, 1501 at Old St Paul's cathedral. Arthur had turned 15 2 months before, and she was just short of her 16th birthday. Sadly the marriage lasted less then 6 months. They had been sent to Ludlow castle on the border of Wales shortly after they wed. They both became ill with the sweating sickness. While Catherine recovered, Arthur died April 2, 1502.

Henry VII didn't want to return her dowry, though he had not received it all. Catherine basically became a prisoner at Durham house in London. There was a thought to marry her to Henry VII himself but then his younger son Henry. When her mother died though, and her sister Joanna became queen of Castie, her value as a bride went down. She struggled financially.

Henry VII died in April 1509 and Henry chose to marry Catherine. They had to gain special permission to marry as marrying the widow of your brother was not considered legal. Catherine testified that she and Arthur had never consummated their marriage, and they were given permission to wed. They were married June 11 1509, 7 years after Arthur died. Catherine was later crowned June 23, and was well received and continued to be loved by the people of England through out her life (even after annulment).

Sadly for her she only had one child to survive to adulthood
-still birth in 1510
-Henry, Duke of Cornwall was born on Jan 1, 1511. He died after 52 days of life on February 22.
-September 1513 she had a son who was either stillborn or died shortly
-December 1514 she had another short lived son
-February 18 1516 she gave birth to Mary. Mary would go on to be Mary I of England. While she died at age 42 (reigning for 5 years) she and her husband Philip II of Spain would have no children.
-November 1518 she gave birth to a daughter who died hours later

Anne Boeylyn entered the picture in 1525 and the king was enamoured with her. Her sister Mary had been his mistress and he was likely father to her daughter and likely her son. He had only one acknowledged bastard, a son Henry Fitzroy by Bessie Blount, who was 6 at the time. He was married to Anne Boelyn's cousin Mary Howard (daughter of the Duke of Norfolk). He died at 17 and it is said his marriage was not consummated.

Henry tried for years to have the marriage annulled. Catherine's nephew who was Holy Roman emperor and had a great deal of influence with the Pope aided her. Catherine was banished from court and her rooms given to Anne. Catherine had support from Charles V, Mary Tudor (Henry's own sister), Thomas More, Pope Paul III and even Protestant reformer Martin Luther voice his support of her. The fight for an annulment led to the creation of the Church of England.

Henry didn't wait until their marriage was annulled. Shortly after a trip to France he married Anne November 14, 1532 though they later married again in January 1533.

When Cranmer became archbishop of Canterbury he hasted to take the annulment to court. He had Catherine and Henry's marriage annulled on the grounds of her prior marriage though they had been married due to it being sworn never to be consummated in the first place. Cranmer validated Henry's marriage to Anne which was performed months prior. She was pregnant with a baby they hoped would be a heir, why the rush to marry. Unfortunately for Anne it was a daughter Elizabeth born in September.

Catherine died at Kimbolton castle 3 years later, in 1536. She was forbidden to see her daughter or write to her during her years in exile.
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Old Yesterday, 12:22 AM
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May 24 1425, death of Murdoch Stewart, Duke of Albany.

Murdoch was the son of Robert, Duke of Albany. Robert himself was the third son of Robert II and his first wife Elizabeth Mure (Elizabeth was the mother of his first 10 children including Robert III. He had four others by Euphemia Ross). Robert of Albany was married twice himself. Murdoch was his son by his first wife Margaret Graham, Countess of Menteith. He was the only son of this marriage with 7 sisters. After his mother died in 1380, his father remarried to Muriella Keith with whom he had three children.

Murdoch's siblings:
-Lady Janet Stewart married Sir David de Moubray
-Lady Margaret- married Sir John Swinton, 14th of that Ilk. She was his third wife and bore him his heir John.
-Lady Mary Stewart married Sir William Abernathy, 6th of Saltoun
-Lady Joan- married Sir Robert Stewart, 1st Lord of Lorne and had kids
-Lady Beatrice- married James Douglas, 7th Earl of Douglas. All of his children seemed to have been from a second marriage after she died
-Lady Isobel-Alexander Leslie, Earl of Ross. Their daughter Euphemia took the veil and bequeathed her fortune to her mother's half brother John. She later married Walter de Haliburton, 1st Lord Haliburton of Dirleton with whom she had descendents.
-Marjorie: married Duncan Campbell, 1st Lord Campbell. They had one son Archibald whose son Collin was chief of clan Campbell.

his half siblings:
-John Stewart, Earl of Buchan: inherited his half niece Ephemia's fortune. His death lead to the death of Murdoch.
-Robert Stewart, earl of Ross: never married or had kids
-Lady Elizabeth: married Malcolm Fleming. They were the ancestors of Malcom Fleming, 3rd Lord Fleming who served as lord chamberlain to James V.

Murdoch served as regent at various times to three kings, Robert II (his grandfather), Robert III (his Uncle) and James I (his cousin). During his father's life time he was Justiciar of the north, the highest legal position in the north at the time. With his father he worked for many years to build the power and wealth of their family. This brought them into conflict with other northern families, mainly the Lord of the Isles.

He was captured when he accompanied Archibald Douglas in an invasion of England at the Battle of Homildon Hill in 1402. He would spend the next 12 years as a prison in England.

His father spent this time seizing power where he could back in Scotland. His nephew David died in his care, and his brother Robert III sent his younger son James away unfortunately he was captured by pirates and handed over to Henry IV. Robert III died and Robert of Albany became Governor of Scotland. Robert III died in 1406. In 1416 Robert of Albany arranged ransom, not for his nephew King James I, but for his own son Murdoch. Murdoch was exchanged with the Earl of Northumberland. James I would remain in England for 18 years.

In 1420 at the age of 58 Murdoch became Duke of Albany and Governor on the death of his father. In 1423 Murdoch was convinced to do what his father had not, and sent people to negotiate the release of his cousin James.

In 1424 James and his new queen returned to Scotland, and Murdoch lost his position as regent. James was unable to act against Murdoch due to the power the Albany family still had. Mainly in the form of Murdoch's brother John. John at the time was the constable of France, and was serving with their French allies. He was also the leader of a massive Scottish army that James feared. Unfortunately for Murdoch, John was killed in August 1424, and with his death the fear of his army went away.

Murdoch, his wife Isabelle and several of his sons were arrested. He, his sons Walter and Alexander, and the Earl of Lennox were tried and found guilty of treason. They were executed at Stirling castle. Murdoch was buried at Blackfriar's church. He was attained, all his titles and lands forefeit.

Murdoch had been married to Isabella daughter of Donnchadh, Earl of Lennox. Her father was executed with her husband and their sons. She bore Murdoch five children:

-Robert who died in 1421
-Walter who was executed with his father in 1425
-Alexander who was executed with his father in 1425
-James
-Isabel who married Sir Walter Buchanan, 12th Laird of Buchanan.

His son James was known as James the fat, and the only one to survive his father's execution for treason. James attempted to take Dumbarton but he eventually fled to Ireland. A fleet later came to bring him back to Scotland in 1449 but he died before he made it back to Scotland to try and claim it.

Murdoch's widow Isabella would survive, though she spent seven years imprisoned after the execution of her husband, father and elder sons. In 1437 she would reclaim her titles and lands, James I having died, though she was forced to over see her lands from her home on Loch Lomond. She raised most of her grandchildren at her home on Loch Lomond before her death in 1458.

Her son James the fat never married but he had seven children with his mistress, an unnamed member of clan MacDonald. His son James Beag Stewart lived peacefully in Scotland and never laid claim as his father had. He married a daughter of Lord Buchanan, and their eldest son became a royal magistrate of sorts. The Stewarts of Ardvorlich, Glen Buckie, Gartnafuaran and Annat and their cadet families are all descended from him.


Walter was married to Janet Erskine, the daughter of Sir Robert, 1st Lord Erskine. He had at least four sons, Andrew, Walter, Arthur and Murdoch and one daughter Marian. His son Andrew became Lord Avandale, and was lord chancellor for James III.
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  #511  
Old Yesterday, 01:22 PM
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Sadly nothing remains of the Dominican friary in Stirling it was ransacked and destroyed by Calvinists in September 1559 during the insurrection against the regency of Marie de Guise.
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