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  #461  
Old 04-19-2020, 01:25 PM
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The Princess also had many English and Scottish Catholic exiles living with her in Paris,one of them was Charles, 2nd Earl of Middleton and another was James Drummond, 4th Earl of Perth.

Prior to this I had not heard of a Middleton Peerage!
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Old 04-19-2020, 05:05 PM
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The Princess also had many English and Scottish Catholic exiles living with her in Paris,one of them was Charles, 2nd Earl of Middleton and another was James Drummond, 4th Earl of Perth.

Prior to this I had not heard of a Middleton Peerage!
Queen Elizabeth II is a descendant of John 1st Earl of Middleton (father of the 2nd Earl) through his daughter Helen wife of Patrick Lyon 3rd Earl of Strathmore & Kinghorne.
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Old 04-19-2020, 05:11 PM
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Queen Elizabeth II is a descendant of John 1st Earl of Middleton (father of the 2nd Earl) through his daughter Helen wife of Patrick Lyon 3rd Earl of Strathmore & Kinghorne.
How very interesting I had a look and Lady Helen Middleton, married Patrick Lyon, 3rd Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne on the 23rd of August 1662,their son John Lyon was the 4th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne.
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  #464  
Old 04-19-2020, 05:41 PM
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The Princess also had many English and Scottish Catholic exiles living with her in Paris,one of them was Charles, 2nd Earl of Middleton and another was James Drummond, 4th Earl of Perth.

Prior to this I had not heard of a Middleton Peerage!
There is apparently a Viscount Midleton, one d, extant.
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Old 04-19-2020, 06:44 PM
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There is apparently a Viscount Midleton, one d, extant.
And an Irish title the current 12th Viscount Midleton is still alive!
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  #466  
Old 04-19-2020, 08:20 PM
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And an Irish title the current 12th Viscount Midleton is still alive!
And the Queen descends from Anne (Trevor) Hill the third wife of the 1st Viscount Midleton.
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  #467  
Old 04-20-2020, 07:37 AM
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And the Queen descends from Anne (Trevor) Hill the third wife of the 1st Viscount Midleton.
Interesting and also at closer inspection the Duke of Wellington also.
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Old 04-22-2020, 02:03 AM
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April 22, 1355- death of Eleanor of Woodstock. Eleanor was the daughter of Edward II of England and Isabella of France. She was named after her paternal grandmother Eleanor of Castile. She was the 3rd born of her parents' four children.

Her siblings:
-Edward: became Edward III at the age of 15. He was married to Philippa of Hainnault who bore him 13 children, 8 sons and 5 daughters including The Black Prince and John of Gaunt. He was succeeded though by two grandsons, Richard II and Henry IV.
-John of Eltham: was Earl of Cornwall. He died at the age of 20 in Perth, and was buried by his brother at Westminster. He never married.
-Joan of the tower: was married to David II of Scotland. Her husband spent 11 years in the tower, and though allowed to visit, she never got pregnant. She remained in England when her husband returned to Scotland. Died childless.

She was with her sister in the care of Eleanor de Clare, who herself was a granddaughter of Edward I (her mother was Edward II's sister Joan). They were later transferred to the care of Ralph de Monthermer, 1st Baron Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester. Ralph had been Eleanor de Clare's stepfather. Joan of Acre, Eleanor's mother, married him secretly after the death of her first husband Gilbert de Clare. Ralph was married to his second wife Isabel at the time, Eleanor of Woodstock's Aunt Joan having died in 1307. He had married Isabel in 1313, and like Joan in secret.


She was eventually reunited with her mother in 1320. In 1325 negotiations were made for her to be married to Alfonso XI of Castile but they fell through. He would marry his first wife Constanza Manuel later that year, though had it annulled 2 years later.


The second attempt was to marry her to a son of Philip VI of France, and John was intended to marry a daughter. But both fell through.Philip VI was a cousin of Isabella. He had succeeded her brother Charles IV when he died without heir. Her son Edward III had a claim to the throne, but Philip had been chosen for the throne instead. Eleanor's perspective husband, the future John II instead first married Bonne of Bohemia.


Instead in 1332 Eleanor was married to Reginald II, Count of Guelders, known as 'the black'. Eleanor was 14. Reginald was 37. He had his nickname for both being quite dark in coloring as well as in person. He was known for imprisoning his own father for years.


Reginald was a widower with 4 daughters. His first wife Sophia Berthout, Lady of Mechelen had died in 1329. His oldest daughter was only 2 years younger then his new bride.

His daughters from his previous marriage:
-Marguerite- lady of Mechelen after her mother. died unmarried.
-Mathilde- Lady of Mechelen, Duchess of Guelders. She was married 3 times. Her second husband was John, Count of Cleves. Her third husband John II, Count of Blois. She had no children. Her husband John II spent much of his life trying to claim Guelders from her nephew William.
-Elisabeth: was an abbess
-Maria married William II, Duke of Julich. His mother Joanna was the younger sister of Philippa of Hainnault (Edward III's wife).They had 7 children including William who Maria's brother in law spent so much time trying to gain Guelders from.

The marriage between Eleanor of Reginald was arranged by her mother's cousin Joan of Valois. She was well received by the people of Guelders, but not by her husband. Due to her unhappy childhood she was quick to try and please her husband who tired of her quickly. He sent her from court and tried to have their marriage annulled on the basis he claimed she was a leper. She appeared at court to defend herself, stripping down in front of the court to prove she wasn't a leper. Her husband was forced to take her back. Reginald died in 1343 from a fall from his horse.


Despite their unhappy marriage the couple did have two children:

-Reginald: known as the fat, he succeeded his father as Reginald III at age 10. He was married to Marie of Brabant, daughter of John III, Duke of Brabant. They were childless. In 1350 his brother Edward seized his throne, and imprisoned him. While he was imprisoned he became so fat (hence his nickname) that they said he couldn't escape as he would never fit through the door. His brother died in 1371 and he reclaimed his throne and freedom but died just over 3 months later. Legend says the walls of his cell had to be cut away to let him leave his prison cell when free.


-Edward: was Duke of Guelders for a time. He was also childless. He had been betrothed to Katherine of Bavaria, but she was only 10 when he died. Katherine would go on to marry his nephew William of Julich.


Following the death of both her sons, war broke out between two of her stepdaughters Maria and Mathilde. Emperor Charles IV supported the claim of William of Julich to succeed (Maria's son). Mathilde eventually gave up her claim in 1379. William and Katherine of Bavaria had no children, and he was succeeded by his brother eventually.


Following her husband's death, Eleanor had served as regent for her son.It was formal but she had problem getting it recognized. In 1344 she was forced to step down as regent. She later had a falling out with Reginald. She had tried to get him to make peace with his brother Edward. He stripped her of all of her lands and money for supporting his brother.


Eleanor refused to seek help from her brother Edward III. Instead she retired in poverty to a Cistercian convent, dying 12 years after her husband. She was buried very simply at the convent, with a tombstone that simply read Eleanor on it.


Edward III though saw to a memorial for his sister. Her image can be found on the south side of the tomb of Queen Philippa, Edward's wife.
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Old 04-22-2020, 08:06 AM
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On April 22nd,1444 :Birth of Elizabeth of York, Duchess of Suffolk

Elizabeth of York was the third daughter of Richard ,3rd Duke of York and Cecily Neville.in 1458 she was married to John de la Pole, 2nd Duke of Suffolk.
Elizabeth was sister to both Edward IV and Richard III.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizab...ess_of_Suffolk
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Old 04-22-2020, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
April 22, 1355- death of Eleanor of Woodstock. Eleanor was the daughter of Edward II of England and Isabella of France. She was named after her paternal grandmother Eleanor of Castile. She was the 3rd born of her parents' four children.

Her siblings:
-Edward: became Edward III at the age of 15. He was married to Philippa of Hainnault who bore him 13 children, 8 sons and 5 daughters including The Black Prince and John of Gaunt. He was succeeded though by two grandsons, Richard II and Henry IV.
-John of Eltham: was Earl of Cornwall. He died at the age of 20 in Perth, and was buried by his brother at Westminster. He never married.
-Joan of the tower: was married to David II of Scotland. Her husband spent 11 years in the tower, and though allowed to visit, she never got pregnant. She remained in England when her husband returned to Scotland. Died childless.

She was with her sister in the care of Eleanor de Clare, who herself was a granddaughter of Edward I (her mother was Edward II's sister Joan). They were later transferred to the care of Ralph de Monthermer, 1st Baron Monthermer, Earl of Gloucester. Ralph had been Eleanor de Clare's stepfather. Joan of Acre, Eleanor's mother, married him secretly after the death of her first husband Gilbert de Clare. Ralph was married to his second wife Isabel at the time, Eleanor of Woodstock's Aunt Joan having died in 1307. He had married Isabel in 1313, and like Joan in secret.


She was eventually reunited with her mother in 1320. In 1325 negotiations were made for her to be married to Alfonso XI of Castile but they fell through. He would marry his first wife Constanza Manuel later that year, though had it annulled 2 years later.


The second attempt was to marry her to a son of Philip VI of France, and John was intended to marry a daughter. But both fell through.Philip VI was a cousin of Isabella. He had succeeded her brother Charles IV when he died without heir. Her son Edward III had a claim to the throne, but Philip had been chosen for the throne instead. Eleanor's perspective husband, the future John II instead first married Bonne of Bohemia.


Instead in 1332 Eleanor was married to Reginald II, Count of Guelders, known as 'the black'. Eleanor was 14. Reginald was 37. He had his nickname for both being quite dark in coloring as well as in person. He was known for imprisoning his own father for years.


Reginald was a widower with 4 daughters. His first wife Sophia Berthout, Lady of Mechelen had died in 1329. His oldest daughter was only 2 years younger then his new bride.

His daughters from his previous marriage:
-Marguerite- lady of Mechelen after her mother. died unmarried.
-Mathilde- Lady of Mechelen, Duchess of Guelders. She was married 3 times. Her second husband was John, Count of Cleves. Her third husband John II, Count of Blois. She had no children. Her husband John II spent much of his life trying to claim Guelders from her nephew William.
-Elisabeth: was an abbess
-Maria married William II, Duke of Julich. His mother Joanna was the younger sister of Philippa of Hainnault (Edward III's wife).They had 7 children including William who Maria's brother in law spent so much time trying to gain Guelders from.

The marriage between Eleanor of Reginald was arranged by her mother's cousin Joan of Valois. She was well received by the people of Guelders, but not by her husband. Due to her unhappy childhood she was quick to try and please her husband who tired of her quickly. He sent her from court and tried to have their marriage annulled on the basis he claimed she was a leper. She appeared at court to defend herself, stripping down in front of the court to prove she wasn't a leper. Her husband was forced to take her back. Reginald died in 1343 from a fall from his horse.


Despite their unhappy marriage the couple did have two children:

-Reginald: known as the fat, he succeeded his father as Reginald III at age 10. He was married to Marie of Brabant, daughter of John III, Duke of Brabant. They were childless. In 1350 his brother Edward seized his throne, and imprisoned him. While he was imprisoned he became so fat (hence his nickname) that they said he couldn't escape as he would never fit through the door. His brother died in 1371 and he reclaimed his throne and freedom but died just over 3 months later. Legend says the walls of his cell had to be cut away to let him leave his prison cell when free.


-Edward: was Duke of Guelders for a time. He was also childless. He had been betrothed to Katherine of Bavaria, but she was only 10 when he died. Katherine would go on to marry his nephew William of Julich.


Following the death of both her sons, war broke out between two of her stepdaughters Maria and Mathilde. Emperor Charles IV supported the claim of William of Julich to succeed (Maria's son). Mathilde eventually gave up her claim in 1379. William and Katherine of Bavaria had no children, and he was succeeded by his brother eventually.


Following her husband's death, Eleanor had served as regent for her son.It was formal but she had problem getting it recognized. In 1344 she was forced to step down as regent. She later had a falling out with Reginald. She had tried to get him to make peace with his brother Edward. He stripped her of all of her lands and money for supporting his brother.


Eleanor refused to seek help from her brother Edward III. Instead she retired in poverty to a Cistercian convent, dying 12 years after her husband. She was buried very simply at the convent, with a tombstone that simply read Eleanor on it.


Edward III though saw to a memorial for his sister. Her image can be found on the south side of the tomb of Queen Philippa, Edward's wife.
Eleanor of Woodstock,Duchess of Guelders tombstone is preserved at the Broederenchurch in Deventer. The church is all that survived of the original Cistercian Abbey which she founded.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Tombstone.jpg
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  #471  
Old 04-23-2020, 03:48 AM
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April 23 1141 (most likely, though he could have been born in the weeks following) birth of Malcolm IV of Scotland. He was the original possessor of the title Malcolm Canmore, though it is traditionally use to refer to Malcolm III (his great-grandfather) now.

Malcolm was the son of Henry of Scotland, 3rd Earl of Huntingdon. Henry was a son of David I of Scotland and Maude, 2nd Countess of Huntingdon. His mother was Ada we Warenne, whose father was the 2nd Earl of Surrey and her mother was a granddaughter of Henry I of France.

He had six siblings:
-Ada: married Floris III, Count of Holland. She had 8-10 children, some of whom died young, and was active in the politics of Holland.
-Margaret: was married three times. Her first husband was Conan IV, Duke of Brittany who she had at least 4 kids with (possibly a 5th). Their daughter Constance (who succeeded as Duchess) married Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine's son Geoffrey. Her second husband was Humphrey III de Bohun. Their son Henry was created first Earl of Hereford (they also ha a daughter). Her last husband was Sir William FitzPatrick Hertburn who she had a further three children by.
-William: succeeded his older brother as William I of Scotland, known as the lion. He wed Ermengarde de Beaumont with whom he had 3 daughters and one son, the future Alexander II of Scotland.
-David: served as Earl of Huntingdon. He was married to Matilda of Chester. They had 7 children. His daughter Margaret was the maternal grandmother of John Baiol (king of Scotland after the Maid of Norway died). His daughter Isobel was the great-grandmother of Robert the Bruce.
-Matilda died unmarried
-Marjorie: married Gille Críst, Earl of Angus. She gave her husband two children. Like her brother David, she was an ancestor of Robert the Bruce. Robert's paternal great-grandfather was David's grandson. His maternal great-grandmother Beatrix was the daughter of Marjorie.


Malcolm's father died in 1152 after being in poor health for more then a decade. At this time Malcolm who was 11 became the heir of his grandfather David. He was sent on a tour of Scotland by his grandfather despite his age, accompanied by Donnchad, Earl of Fife and a large army to protect him. Donnchad had been named guardian and possible regent for the young prince if needed. It turned out to be good planning as David didn't out live his son by a year, dying in 1153. Donnchad stepped up as regent and saw to the assumption of his young charge.

The young king faced many other claimants, including a bastard of Alexander I. And outside forces like Henry II of England and other lords of Scotland like the Earl of Orkney and the Lord of Galloway. His first major threat came from Somerled of Argyll. Somerled only dissipated as his focus went instead to his war against the Lord of the Isles.

He eventually made peace with Henry II after several meetings with the king who eventually knighted him. He led an expedition into Galloway on the belief that Fergus, Lord of Galloway was leading a rebellion against him (later thought was Fergus was actually set up by other earls). Fergus was defeated and his son taken as a political hostage. Fergus became a monk.


Somerled was not quiet forever. Having seized the crown of the Isles. Sommerled led an army to attack Glasgow and other areas. He was defeated, and he and his son killed, by Herbert Selkirk (Bishop of Glasgow) and his troops.


There was an attempt to marry Malcolm. The sought bride was Constance of Penthièvre. Constance though turned down the marriage proposal. She was the sister of Conant IV (William's brother in law, married to Margaret). She hoped to marry the recently widowed Louis VII of France but he chose Adele of Champagne instead. Her first husband would be William FitzEmpress, a younger brother of Henry II of England.

Malcolm died in 1165 at the age of 24. He possibly died from complications of Paget's disease (malformation of bones).

Malcolm was known as Malcolm the Maiden, which suggested to some he was weak and perhaps enfeminate. But that is thought to have been false. He was known for being interested and involved in warfare, and knighthood. Unfortunately most of his life he was quite ill before his death.


There were some rumors he had an illegitimate daughter but no real record of it. He had no historically known mistress.
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Old 04-23-2020, 08:21 AM
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On this day,April 23rd 1348:The Most Noble Order of the Garter is founded by King Edward III to mark St Georges day.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Garter

https://www.royal.uk/order-garter

https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureU...of-the-Garter/
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  #473  
Old 04-23-2020, 06:41 PM
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Also on 23 April 1307 : The death of Joan of Acre,Countess of Hertford
Countess of Gloucester.

Joan was the daughter of Edward I and Eleanor of Castile ,she was called Joan of Acre as she was born in 1272 in the Holyland during the Crusades.In 1290 Joan was married to Gilbert de Clare, Earl of Gloucester and following his death in 1295 she married Ralph de Monthermer, 1st Baron Monthermer in secret which caused a huge scandal.Joan died at Clare Castle in Suffolk and was buried at the now destroyed Clare Priory in Suffolk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joan_of_Acre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clare_Priory
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  #474  
Old 04-24-2020, 04:24 AM
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Thank you, Countessmeout, for the fascinating account on the life of Malcolm IV of Scotland, born 23rd April 1114.
He had a large family and the Paget's disease connection is interesting. Do you know if more of his family suffered from that bone abnormality at such a young age?
He was quite young to die, at 24 years of age, to that complaint.

You have prompted me to research more about Kings of Scotland.
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  #475  
Old 04-24-2020, 10:40 AM
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On this day,April 24th 1558 marriage of Mary, Queen of Scots, marries the Dauphin François of France at Notre Dame Cathedral.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_II_of_France
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Queen_of_Scots
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  #476  
Old 04-25-2020, 02:36 AM
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Thank you, Countessmeout, for the fascinating account on the life of Malcolm IV of Scotland, born 23rd April 114.
He had a large family and the Paget's disease connection is interesting. Do you know if more of his family suffered from that bone abnormality at such a young age?
He was quite young to die, at 24 years of age, to that complaint.

You have prompted me to research more about Kings of Scotland.
Yes its usually suffered by people over 40. But its not unknown in younger. The diagnosis was based on the historical records by a historian William of Newhberg who described malformed bones and pains the king suffered. Its not always hereditary, and from his family members that there are records of how they died (which aren't many) there are no clear sufferers. His father died young and had suffered some disease for years but not identified.



April 25, 1776- birth of Princess Mary, Duchess of Gloucester and Edinburgh.

Princess Mary was the eleventh child and 4th daughter of George III and his wife Charlotte. She was baptized at St James' palace. Her godparents were Prince Frederick of Hesse-Kassel (George III's cousin. His mother Mary and George's father Frederick being the children of George II), Princess Charlotte of Saxe-Meiningen (Charlotte's husband Ernest II was George III's maternal first cousin. George's mother Augusta and Ernest's father Frederick were the children of Frederick II, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg) and Princess Friederike of Hesse-Darmstadt (a third cousin once removed). None of her godparents were present, they all had proxies. Mary and her husband shared a godmother in Princess Charlotte of Saxe-Meiningen.


In 1796 Mary fell in love with Prince Frederick of Orange-Nassau. He was the son of William V. He was in exile with his family, his father a cousin of George III (his mother Anne was George II's eldest daughter Anne). The couple were deeply in love but George refused to allow them to marry until her older sisters were wed. Unfortunately for Mary Frederick died of an infection while serving in the army, in 1799. At the time only Charlotte had married (Augusta never married and Elizabeth waited till 1818). Mary was allowed to go into official mourning after his death.


Mary was again devastated in 1810 by the death of her beloved sister Amelia. Amelia had been in poor health most of her life, and in 1808 had contracted measles from which she never fully recovered. Mary had been sent with her into the country to help nurse her. Her death was a blow to Mary who had been devoted to her sister.


In 1816 Mary was finally married, no longer forced to wait for her older sisters. Mary was 40. Her husband was her first cousin Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh. William was the son of George III's brother Prince William Henry, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh. William's mother was Maria Walpole, a granddaughter of the first Prime Minister of United Kingdom. Maria was a commoner and her parents were unmarried. William and Maria were married in secret, and since George II didn't learn of their marriage until 5 months after the Royal Marriage act was passed, he didn't lose his place in succession (it couldn't be applied retroactively).

William and Mary were both born in 1776, her husband born in January. He had succeeded to his father's titles in 1805. He was styled His Highness from birth. But at the time of his marriage to Mary he was raised to the style of His royal highness, to match that of his wife by the Prince regent.

William had originally sought the hand of Princess Charlotte of Wales (20 years younger then her Aunt Mary, was a more suitable bride). He had been encouraged to stay single in hopes to marry him to Charlotte, but a foreign match was thought better. It is said he was in love with Mary, and was quite happy in their marriage. Mary seemed to have been more anxious to be free of his mother and have her own household.

The couple lived at Bagshot park whose lands he had extended. The house they lived in was demolished in 1877, the one that is now home to the Wessexes was completed in 1879.

Her husband died in 1834. She moved to White Lodge in Richmond following his death. Unfortunately likely due to her age, she never had any children (of George III's 6 daughters, 3 married and none had children). Mary was quite close to her brother George IV and shared his dislike of his wife. She was also said to be the favorite Aunt of Queen Victoria.


She died at Gloucester House in London. The home originally belonged to her and her husband but it was at the time of her death home to the Duke of Cambridge. The house was demolished in 1904 and was turned into luxury residences. Mary died in 1857, 5 days after her 81st birthday. She was the longest living child of George III as well as last surviving. She out lived her last sibling by nearly six years, her brother Ernest Augustus of Hannover died in November 1851. Ernest August was also the second longest living, having died at 80.


She was buried with her husband in the Gloucester vault at St George's.
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Old 04-25-2020, 08:10 AM
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The Duchess of Gloucester and Edinburgh lived such a long life for those times and lived well into the reign of her nice,Queen Victoria and lived through the reign of 4 consecutive monarchs.

George III
George IV
William IV
Victoria
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Old 04-25-2020, 08:36 AM
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She did, yes, and so many of her cousins and siblings died young, or childless.
It is amazing to think of how few decendants George III had despite his many children.
Intermarriage was frequent. Do you think that played a part?
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Old 04-25-2020, 12:34 PM
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She did, yes, and so many of her cousins and siblings died young, or childless.
It is amazing to think of how few decendants George III had despite his many children.
Intermarriage was frequent. Do you think that played a part?
A number of her siblings made it to their 60s and 70s. Other then the two who died in childhood, only Amelia who died in her 20s and Victoria’s dad who was in his 50s died that young for those days.

As for grandchildren for George III it’s not that surprising and a lot is more due to age. Of his six daughters only 3 married. Charlotte was the only one who even got pregnant. Mary was 40 and Elizabeth was 48. Neither Mary or Elizabeth married for love but more to escape the control of their mother. Both were said to have very happy marriages. But due to their age neither had kids.

The only son who reached adulthood who had no kids was Frederick. The youngest two died in childhood. George and his wife separated after Charlotte was born why they only had one. William and his wife had two daughters but they died in infancy while he ten with his mistress. Edward of course died less then two years after he married and shortly after Victoria was born. Ernest and his wife only had one son but like her sister in laws it was likely due to his wife being older as she was 37 when they married. The Duke of Sussex had two children by his first wife but none by the second though again due to age. Adolphus and his wife had three including the mother of Queen Mary.
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:42 PM
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An obituary from The Gentlemen's Magazine 1857:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=..._HAtMQ6AEIQTAD
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