Naming Customs of British Royalty, Favourite Name, Regnal Name and Numeration

[Kotroman]

George is the most popular name among British princes. 21 one prince was christened as George. Other popular names include Frederick (20 princes, though there has never been King Frederick), William (19 princes) and Albert (15 princes, all named after Queen Victoria's husband).

Mary is the most popular name among British princesses by birth. Other popular names include Louise and Victoria.

Someone said that the name John is regarded as unfortunate and that Diana's request to name her son John was rejected because of this superstition. Could anyone explain why?

Also, how do they determine how many names a royal child should have? I noticed that Queen Victoria was not very extravagant when she christened her eldest son. He was christened simply "Albert Edward". Most children of George III had only one name (though it was always strange to me that one of his daughters was Princess Augusta Sophia, while the other one was Princess Sophia). Others have (had) up to four names.
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The monarch's regnal name is his or her royal prerrogative. The first monarch on British Isles who chose to reign under a name that was not his first name was King Robert III of Scotland. In fact, he was baptized as John, but chose to reign as Robert III due to the unpopularity of the name John (he wished to avoid being called John II, as recognition of John de Balliol's kingship would weaken the Bruce claim to the throne).


The prerrogative was used again four centuries later, when Princess Alexandrina Victoria ascended as Queen Victoria. Only 3 monarchs have used a baptismal name other than their first given name as their regnal name, and they all used their last given name, coincidentally:

• Alexandrina Victoria > Victoria
• Albert Edward > Edward VII
• Albert Frederick Arthur George > George VI

Does anyone know why Queen Victoria chose to reign as Victoria and not as Alexandrina Victoria? Did she use only the name Victoria during her childhood or did she drop the name Alexandrina upon accession? Since she had no monarchical ordinal, "Queen Alexandrina Victoria" would've sounded much more glorius than simply "Queen Victoria".

[Iluvbertie]

At times during her childhood she was called 'Drina' and then I think as she got older 'Victoria'.

There was also the fact that neither of her parents really wanted her called Alexandrina and that it was the Prince Regent/George IV who wouldn't let them call her what it was they wanted so she got Alexandrina Victoria.

As Alexandrina came from the Tsar of Russia, maybe she didn't want to use a name that could link her to Russia or maybe she was used to Victoria.

I have never heard a reason given, actually.

As for Albert Edward - he explained that at his accession council. He wanted the name 'Albert' to be associated only with his father (maybe he didn't think he could live up to Albert's reputation, maybe he didn't want to have his father's name or .....). It had been known that Victoria wanted him known as Albert Edward but as no double barrelled king had ruled in Britain (or certainly England) before he didn't want to create a precedent.

As for George VI there was the issue of not using Albert for similar reasons to those that his grandfather had used as outlined above but also to link but to the safety and security of his father's reign to give some continuity after the abdication.


As for John - I think the unluckiness comes from:
a) King John, who has been regarded as one of England's worst kings (although I rate his brother far worse - John, at least stayed in the country and tried to rule it after his brother bankrupted the country in his war mongering in the middle east).

b) Edward VII's youngest son was named John and died within a couple of days. Alexander was also one of his names but I never can remember whether the Alexander or John actually came first. Why blaming a couple of day old child for an unlucky name I don't know.

c) George V named his youngest son after his youngest brother - the above mentioned John - who was the 'forgotten' prince who spent some time at Sandringham before dying aged 13.

I don't really see it as a name to be avoided, if one it to use Charles - who afterall has the precedent of the name of a King who was actually beheaded by the people (if parliament controlled by Oliver Cromwell can truly be called the people).

I do hope that Charles uses Charles III as it would be strange to start calling him something else after over 60 years of him being Charles.

[amedea]

I have always wondered why Queen Elisabeth decided to name her first son with that name so unfortunate. Does someone know the reason?

[Lady Ann]

The forgotten Prince John was sick since he was 4 years old he had epelepcy which lead to his death at 13 years old. In them days there were no meds for epelepcy and the prince was kept a way from court. Letters/Diary from Queen Mary that were found and publised after her death state her grief over not only the loss of her son but the fact that she was not there when he died were very bad. It was said that this was the main reason they stopped the use of the name John in the royal family. It is said that Daina wanted to name William John after her Father but was told NO..

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

I do hope that Charles uses Charles III as it would be strange to start calling him something else after over 60 years of him being Charles.

Charles III would be unusal and therefore interesting since the last King Charles died in the 17th century, but having George VII would also be nice. Then again, he might honour his father and choose to reign as Philip II, taking into account Mary I of England's husband and co-sovereign.

If Charles decides to reign as George VII, he would follow the pattern set by his ancestors who didn't use their first name as their regnal name - he would use the last name.

I'm curious as to why the Prince of Wales didn't name one of his sons after a Scottish monarch. We all know about the controversy that arised when Elizabeth II ascended; some Scots believed that she should be simply Elizabeth in Scotland. Churchill then suggested that monarchs should be numbered according to either their English or Scottish predecessors, whichever number is higher. Why did he have to name both his sons after English monarchs, when naming one of them (even if younger one) after a Scottish monarch would've been a nice gesture?

[free2rhyme]

Was it the Queen who told Diana no? If so did she have to give the okay for the names of her other grandchildren?

[Lady Ann]

I am not sure who it was that told Diana this and it was never proven just said or reported here is what Wikki says on the matter:
The name "John" has been considered unlucky by the royal family and its use avoided since the death of the prince. The popularly negative historical view of the only English monarch to bear the name — King John (reigned 1199-1216) — especially his fictionalization as the villainous Prince John in the Robin Hood stories, has likely compounded concerns about the name. It was reported that Diana, Princess of Wales wished to name her elder son "John," after her own father, but was prevented from doing so by royal tradition.[citation needed]

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by free2rhyme

Was it the Queen who told Diana no? If so did she have to give the okay for the names of her other grandchildren?

While we're discussing other grandchildren... I wonder why they decided to name the Earl of Wessex's son James? If I recall correctly, he is the first and only Prince of the United Kingdom to be named after the last Popist monarch of England, Scotland and Ireland. It is a nice gesture towards the other six Scottish monarchs named James, but James VII really messed things up.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by Kotroman

While we're discussing other grandchildren... I wonder why they decided to name the Earl of Wessex's son James? If I recall correctly, he is the first and only Prince of the United Kingdom to be named after the last Popist monarch of England, Scotland and Ireland. It is a nice gesture towards the other six Scottish monarchs named James, but James VII really messed things up.

I seem to remember reading that they liked the name and waited to get to know him a little bit before deciding on a name - so obviously, from that, to them he seemed like a James.

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by free2rhyme

Was it the Queen who told Diana no? If so did she have to give the okay for the names of her other grandchildren?

My understanding, based on the actions of George IV when Victoria was born, the insistance of Victoria that all her descendents carry either Albert or Victoria in their names (i.e. those in the British Royal Family), the comment by George V about the names of the present Queen that he didn't see any necessity to include Victoria in the names, would suggest that the monarch does have a say but usually defers to the parents unless they have a very real reason for not allowing a particular name.

[free2rhyme]

I always wondered why Anne picked the name Zara and I found a HELLO! article where it said that Charles came up with the name and it means "bright as dawn". Though not your everyday name I think it adds some diversity in a group of such traditional names.

[Marsel]

Peter is unusual name for the British Royal Family as well.

Here is a brief summary of the first holders of several names (usually first names) in the English/British Royal Family. If I’ve added “need to re-check this” next to the names, it means I am not entirely sure they were actually the very first Royals with the name and will have to make further research to verify it.


Eleanor - the first English Royal with the name was Eleanor of Aquitaine, the wife of Henry II

Arthur - The first English "Prince Arthur" was the son of Prince Geoffrey (middle son of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine). He was supposed to succeed Richard I, however Richard was instead succeeded by John I

Berengaria - the first English Princess (Queen) with the name of Richard I's wife (need to re-check this)

Elizabeth - The first Princess with this name was the youngest daughter of Edward I of England

Geoffrey - the name of Empress Matilda's husband was Geoffrey. Their son, Henry, would become King of England following King Stephen's death. Geoffrey's nickname would become the name of the new dynasty - Plantagenet

Margaret - The first Princess with that name was Margaret of France, the second wife of Edward I (need to re-check this)

Matilda - The first English Royal with the name was Matilda of Flanders, the wife of William the Conqueror.

Richard - I believe the first English Royal with this name was Richard I. It is rumoured that Eleanor of Aquitaine named him after her first love and that was the reason she favoured him above all her other children.

Robert - William the Conqueror's eldest son was the first English Royal with that name

Stephen - the first member of the English Royal Family with the name was Stephen, Count of Blois, the husband of Adela of England (William the Conqueror's daughter) and father of King Stephen.

Adela - the name of William the Conqueror's daughter

Blanche - the first member of the English Royal Family with the name was Blanche of Lancaster, the first wife of John of Gaunt and mother of Henry IV of England

Anne - although several Princesses bore Anne among their names, the first English Royal with Anne as her first name Anne Boleyn (I will need to re-check this though), Henry VIII's second wife and mother of Elizabeth I

Jane - The first English Royal with the name was Jane Seymour, Henry VIII's third wife and mother of Edward VI

Lionel - the first British Prince with the name was the third son of Edward III

Philippa - the first English Royal with the name was Edward III's wife, Philippa of Hainault (need to re-check this)

Gytha - the first English Royal with the name was Gytha of Wessex, King Harold II Godwinson's daughter, who married Vladimir II Monomakh

[Ella Kay]

Originally Posted by Marsel77

Arthur - The first English "Prince Arthur" was the son of Prince Geoffrey (middle son of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine). He was supposed to succeed Richard I, however Richard was instead succeeded by John I

Seems like every British heir who bears the first name Arthur has failed to inherit the throne. Prince Arthur, elder brother of Henry VIII, died before he could do so. Any other examples?

[Marsel]

Originally Posted by Ella Kay

Seems like every British heir who bears the first name Arthur has failed to inherit the throne. Prince Arthur, elder brother of Henry VIII, died before he could do so. Any other examples?

No other eldest son of English or British Monarch held the first name "Arthur". Apparently, it was/is considered unlucky by the members of the Royal Family as well.

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi,

Great subject for a thread!!!

I also hope that Charles reigns under the name Charles III; I'm not fussy about the name George, never was....

I do like some of the old names mentioned:
Eleanor, Geoffrey, Richard and Blanche. Also Frederick...


Marsel77:
I'm not sure of this but I seem to remember reading years ago that Gytha was named Edith of Wessex in England, but by the time she reached Russia, she became Gytha.
Is Gytha a Russian name? Would it tranlate into Edith?
As I've stated, I'm writing this under very sketchy remembrance!!!

Larry

[Marsel]

Larry, Edith was the name of Gytha's mother. Edith Swanneck. As far as I know, she was born Gytha; there would be no particular reason for changing 'Edith' to 'Gytha' as both are not Russian names and are very uncommon for most Slavonic countries.
I believe it has English and Danish origin ('Gytha' means 'gift' in Old English and 'warring' in Danish, or so I am told by my book of name origins).

[Kotroman]

Originally Posted by Marsel77

Anne - although several Princesses bore Anne among their names, the first English Royal with Anne as her first name Anne Boleyn (I will need to re-check this though)

There were lots of royal Annes before Anne Boleyn - queens consort Anne of Bohemia and Anne Neville come to my mind, but I'm sure there were others too.

[free2rhyme]

Anne picked Peter because it was Mark Philip's father's name.

[Vecchiolarry]

Hi Marsel77,

Yes of course, you're right - Edith was the mother. It all comes back to me now!!!
Thanks for the information on Gytha; it does sound Norse...

Larry

[Elspeth]

Originally Posted by amedea

I have always wondered why Queen Elisabeth decided to name her first son with that name so unfortunate. Does someone know the reason?

It's usually reported that she and Prince Philip chose the name because they liked it, not because of any major significance.