Earl and Countess of St. Andrews and Family News 1: September 2003-

[CasiraghiTrio]

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Going to Eton seems to be a tradition in the family, so his name was probably down for Eton from the time he was born.

this is true. That's the most likely possibility. I forgot about that. Yes, I think the earl of st. andrews did go to eton as well.... Well, it's a nice compromise anyway. His father's school and his mother's religion.
:)

[Mahoogie]

Just been wondering why does the Duke of Kent's grandson or bloodline have more significant title than the Queen's own grandchildren, take for example, Sarah and Peter Phillips, Lady Louise Windsor...And as you've mentioned, the Kents noble bloodline will last for generations or forever taken the fact that they are just the Extended royal family...I know that Sarah and Peter have no tiltles because their father, Mark Phillips is a commoner and did not accepted the Queen's offer of earldom and its The Princess Royal's decision to give her children a more private life than being a titled royal..I just find it a bit odd that Baron Downpatrick will be known in the future as The Duke of kent,Earl of St. Andrews..while the Queen's direct bloodline her grandchildren such as Peter and Sarah are titleless, Lady Louise Windsor is not a Princess..I know its their parent's decision not to give them a high-profile royal title..I just find it a bit odd that the Duke of Kent's grandson and decendants in the future have a continous nobility bloodline than the Princess Royal's or the Duke of York's..Prince Andrew has two girls, in case, he wont bare a son, does it mean that nobody will inherit the dukedom of York??...or one of his daughters can?

[Lady Marmalade]

Zara and Peter Phillips do not have titles as their mother is female and titles are not handed down through the female line, except in cases such as the Duchess of Fife and the Countess of Burma.

Since Mark Phillips refused a peerage by the Queen after marrying Princess Anne, any children they had have no titles. Princess Anne and Mark wanted it this way so their children could lead normal, non-royal lives.

In the royal family and the aristocracy, a child's title is determined by the male line titles. IE: Duke of Rutland's children are lady and lord. His eldest son takes his secondary title but is not a peer. The oldest grandson takes the next title as a courtesy title.

Lady Louise Windsor, daughter of the Earl and Countess of Wessex, is technically a princess as she is descended through the male line, her father. She can use the title Princess Louise when she is older if she wants to.

However, when the two married, they decided any children they might have would take the courtesy titles of being an Earl's children, hence the reason she is known as Lady Louise.

Now, Henry - Duke of Gloucester, and George - Duke of Kent, were two male sons of George V, have sons still alive and who have suceeded to the titles.

The current Duke of Gloucester has a son Alexander, Earl of Ulster, who will inherit the title when his father dies.

The current Duke of Kent has two sons, but the oldest is known as the Earl of St. Andrews, the Duke's secondary title. The Earl has a son, Baron Downpatrick, who uses his grandfather's secondary title as a courtesy.

In the British Peerage to help you out you can have: this is just an example:

Duke - Marquess - Earl - which translates to Granfather - Son - Grandson.

The first is the actual peer, the second and third are courtesy titles used by the oldest son and grandson.

Hope this helps.

[Mahoogie]

ok,Lady Marmalade thanks for that clarification, I understand now.

[Lady Marmalade]

My pleasure. :)

[Warren]

Many of the current Dukes and peers in the UK owe their titles to ancestors who were the illegitimate offspring of various Monarchs (especially Charles II). Such is the nature of it. Zara Phillips is higher up the Order of Succession than the Duke of Gloucester, who is a Royal Highness, but that's the way the system works. Different hierarchies (eg precedence, succession) for different purposes. A title is not always the indicator of relative "importance". It basically depends on what aspect one is measuring, eg Precedence in the Queen's family is different to that laid down for Official purposes. This is what makes it complex and interesting!

[branchg]

Patricia's correct style and title is "Countess Mountbatten of Burma", a crucial distinction in the standing of the peerage. Being an "Earl Spencer" is a higher honour than being an "Earl of Avon" as it is part of your name and not associated with a place. So Patricia's title is much more significant than if she were Countess of Burma, which would not be honourable given that it no longer exists as a British colony (Sri Lanka today).

[branchg]

Your title has nothing to do with your placement in the line of succession to the throne. Precedence flows from the Sovereign as the fount of honour, so the closer to the throne, the more important you are, regardless of whether you are a Prince, Duke, Earl, Marquess, or plain Mr. Smith.

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by branchg

Patricia's correct style and title is "Countess Mountbatten of Burma", a crucial distinction in the standing of the peerage. Being an "Earl Spencer" is a higher honour than being an "Earl of Avon" as it is part of your name and not associated with a place. So Patricia's title is much more significant than if she were Countess of Burma, which would not be honourable given that it no longer exists as a British colony (Sri Lanka today).

Minor correction, Sri Lanka is the former Ceylon. Myanmar is the former Burma.

[Beck]

Lady Marina-Charlotte Alexandra Katharine Helen Windsor (born 30 September 1992) is the elder daughter of George, Earl of St. Andrews and Sylvana, Countess of St. Andrews. She was born at the Rosie Hospital in Cambridge. She is 23rd in the Line of Succession to the British Throne, bypassing her father, an Anglican who married a Catholic, and elder brother who is Catholic.


Lady Amelia Sophia Theodora Mary Margaret Windsor is the younger daughter of George Philip Nicholas Windsor, Earl of St. Andrews and Sylvana, Countess of St. Andrews, formerly Sylvana Palma Tomaselli. Born at the Rosie Hospital, Cambridge, 24 August 1995.
She and her older sister Lady Marina-Charlotte Windsor remain in the line of succession, although her father, who married a Catholic and her elder brother Edward, Baron Downpatrick, who converted to Catholicism in May 2003, do not, in accordance with the Act of Settlement 1701.

Does anyone have any pictures of them?

[marlene]

Does anyone have a picture of baron downpatrick,the son of the duke of Kent,I don't think he is at Eton as he is in his thirties.The grandson of the duke of kent (the earl of St Andrews son)is at Eton.

[Beck]

Baron Downpatrick is the Duke's grandson. He was born in 1988.

[lady_windsor]

Hes the same age as princess beatrice. i supose they are friends

[Beck]

Edward's christening-

Photos: Tom Hustler

[Iluvbertie]

Originally Posted by marlene

Does anyone have a picture of baron downpatrick,the son of the duke of Kent,I don't think he is at Eton as he is in his thirties.The grandson of the duke of kent (the earl of St Andrews son)is at Eton.

Baron Downpatrick is the Earl of St Andrew's eldest son and heir and therefore at possibly still at Eton. Due to his age I would assume that he is either in his last year there or finished at the end of the last school year.

[Warren]

There is a thread for Lord Nicholas Windsor, here:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...dsor-6540.html
.

[foiegrass]

any larger pictures of the baron?

[lady_windsor]

He isnt in the spotlight much neither are his parents so we cant really tell much about him. I hope he will be at the queens 80th birthday celebrations. Maybe well see some pics of him from there

[foiegrass]

He's the same age as Princess Beatrice right?

[Canadiana]

Any pix of these kids?? I only remember the christening with Diana.
Sylvania was born where I live by the way Newfoundland. Her father was in the military so that's why.