Duties, Roles and Royal Training of the Princes - Page 8

Iluvbertie · #**141** 02-13-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opal

Possibly when he was younger, but I think he has matured since and come to terms with it. He seems to be embracing his role lately.

He most certainly did give the impression, as a teenager, that he didn't want to do that but he is certainly aware of his destiny and starting to show signs of embracing it as well.

He is of course able to take longer because he also knows that he could easily have another 35 - 40 years before he has to do the job due to the health of his grandmother and father.

Sereta · #**142** 03-11-2010, 07:07 PM

I must say I agree with the sentiment that life experience is the best classroom. After seeing William on the Australian/NZ trip, at the BAFTA's, and his other engagements, I really feel this is the best way for him to get comfortable in his role... by doing it. There are certain things you just can't learn in a classroom.

Opal · #**143** 03-12-2010, 05:00 PM

William also has the wonderful benefit of being able to tap into the Queen's wealth of knowledge, experience and wisdom. You can't get that in a classroom either.

Mermaid1962 · #**144** 03-12-2010, 05:19 PM

Yes, I agree. William has had a wonderful opportunity to learn from the Queen and also from the Duke. As experienced as The Prince of Wales is with community service and "working a room," and as helpful as he might be in those regards, he doesn't have the experience of being a monarch.

Sereta · #**145** 03-12-2010, 05:35 PM

Talk about going straight to the top! You can't get a higher education than that.

Iluvbertie · #**146** 08-23-2010, 08:51 PM

William and Harry are in full time military training and simply won't be able to do royal duties except on a part-time ad hoc basis for years - William for at least another 18 months or more and Harry for even longer - like Andrew he will stay in the military probably for another 20 years or so so full time duties for him are decades away.

The York girls will probably be doing more in time but they are currently full-time uni students with Beatrice due to graduate next year and Eugenie having two or three more years to do (people do often forget that these two girls as still in full time education).

rob2008 · #**147** 08-23-2010, 08:56 PM

The problem is precisely that the PoW's sons have sought and been permitted to disappear from public view when their life is about providing visible public service and also securing the dynasty. They are sadly being allowed to fail in both. The Wales household needs sensible advice that spells out and explains the constitutional necessities of the job to the PoW, his new wife and his sons. This is not happening.

Iluvbertie · #**148** 08-23-2010, 11:15 PM

The Prince of Wales and the Duke of York were able to do exactly this in their 20s as have generations of males in the BRF - it is the norm and is what is expected of them - to spend a number of years (their 20s at least) in the military, then marry and secure the dynasty.

Charles didn't marry until his early 30s and the heirs to the other thrones in Europe haven't married until then either so there is no rush for William to marry - look at Albert of Monaco - 50 and only now engaged.

If the heir was female then a marriage in the late 20s or early 30s would be important but with males it isn't.

In addition - there is no worries about the future of the dynasty as the Queen is about to be a great-grandmother so another generartion is on the way. If something happens to Wiliam and Harry then Beatrice and Eugenie are there to carry on.

Osipi · #**149** 08-24-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob2008

The problem is precisely that the PoW's sons have sought and been permitted to disappear from public view when their life is about providing visible public service and also securing the dynasty. They are sadly being allowed to fail in both. The Wales household needs sensible advice that spells out and explains the constitutional necessities of the job to the PoW, his new wife and his sons. This is not happening.

I happen to disagree with you here. As Bertie has said, both William and Harry have full time military careers at this point in their lives but they are not exactly shunning their royal roles either. Both of these men have a list of patronages and causes that they are very much active in and even sometimes have quite a unique approach to how they support them. William spent a night on the cold London streets with his Centrepoint and Harry has his hand in quite a few also. William just did his first overseas trip as a representative of HM to New Zealan and both of the Wales boys just recently (in June I believe) visited Africa on an official tour that was very well received. With just being the heir to the heir and the spare at this time, they can take their time edging into their official royal duties and from what I've seen of them, they stand to do whatever duties come their way with the grace and charm of their late mother.

The PoW and the Duchess of Cornwall, The Princess Royal along with Prince Edward and the Countess of Wessex all do a tremendous job at royal duties. Just follow their activities in their respective threads and most times our own Iceflower posts pictures from all these occasions. Both Charles and Camilla have very busy schedules. Camilla even didn't let a broken ankle get in her way and attended functions using whatever means necessary be it wheelchair (with Charles pushing her), crutches and even a motorized scooter.

All of these may not have made front page news but following their activities here on TRF and checking the court circular for the BRF, you'll be surprised at how much they DO do.

rob2008 · #**150** 08-24-2010, 04:29 PM

William and Harry are undertaking too few engagements. Andrew's daughters are similar - they personally enjoy all the benefits of royalty but do not pay back as required to their country. The motivation is not so relevant - they just have to perform: smile, wave and make the Commonwealth feel good about itself. Their job is to be visible representations of the Windsor dynasty and manifest a unifying force for the UK and the Commonwealth. It is unfair of them to avoid this responsibility and not shoulder some of the burden that is falling heavily on those who are playing their part: HM, Philip, Anne and other hard working Royals. Diana was excellent at public engagements. Charles is good but his wife is invisible - all the benefits but not the responsibilities.

Either these under performers have not been sufficiently educated about their duties or they are being allowed to avoid public duties or they simply lack the desire to do the job they were born to do (or married into). In fact, I think it is a combination of all 3.

Iluvbertie · #**151** 08-24-2010, 05:09 PM

It is totally unfair to class Beatrice and Eugenie as underperforming when they haven't yet finished their education. At their ages William was still being protected by the press agreement about no reporting while he was a student at St Andrews. Beatrice has another year at uni to go and Eugenie two or three years.

As it is perfectly possible that they are not going to be expected to work full-time as royals - as the royal family cuts down the number of members - they may actually be getting full time jobs leaving little time for royal duties anyway.

As for the rest of the Commonwealth I don't know but here in Australia the majority of the population are able to feel quite good about ourselves without some foreigners coming and waving and smiling at us as if we were inferior to them - keep them in Britain please.

You don't seem to get it though - British royal men have all done something other than royal duties in their 20s during the 20th Century - Edward VIII, George VI, Duke of Gloucester and Duke of Kent, Charles and Andrew all spent the majority of their 20s in the military and William and Harry are no different (Edward and Charles were also the direct heirs during those years). The present Earl of Wessex spent his 20s working for a living and not on royal duties and that is very much the way of the future I think with the York girls going to be working not waving at people.

Camilla isn't invisible but supports her husband at many of his engagements and does increasingly more on her own but of course she wouldn't be doing as many as his first wife as she has another family to spend time with and isn't it refreshing to see a royal who insists on putting family first (just like Diana - who put the boys first and I am sure would approve of Camilla putting being a grandmother first).

The Queen has four children who work for her and the country as well as her cousins and her husband. The country doesn't need the royals in their 20s to do royal duties yet and maybe never. The more British press I read the more I believe that the British public would prefer that only William takes on royal duties as a full time job in a number of years - when he is the heir to the throne.

Harry will have a lengthy career in the army - like Andrew had in the navy - the advantage of being the 2nd son. Harry won't be a full time royal until his 40s or even later depending on how good an officer he really is but certainly I would expect him to be in the army for another 20 years appearing on rare occasions like Andrew did throught the 80s and 90s.

Beatrice has gone on tours with her father but I really think that her future and that of her sister is going to be far more minor appearances with full time careers elsewhere as the public demands a cut-down royal family and having fly-by-night celebrities do the work that once required a royal (if it can really be called work anyway).

I do think that many British people do need to really look at the ages of the York princesses and realise that these two young ladies are still full time students and that they should be allowed to at least finish their degrees, as William was allowed to do, without being hounded all the time. Timing would suggest that if Beatrice is going to be a full-time working royal that the Diamond Jubilee celebrations of her grandmother would be the launching year - finished her education and, like William, have another gap year (William had two - one after school and one before entering the army while Harry's lasted nearly two years after leaving school and Beatrice had one after leaving school so another one after leaving uni wouldn't be a surprise).

Diana insisted on giving her sons a 'normal' upbringing and Sarah followed suit with her daughters and everyone applauded. Now they have to allow them to finish their 'normal' upbringing which in their class and position of wealth means gap years after school and increasingly after uni before starting work.

Lumutqueen · #**152** 08-24-2010, 05:13 PM

Wonderful response IluvBertie, everything I would have tried to say.

platinum69 · #**153** 08-24-2010, 11:19 PM

Absolutely, Her Majesty should and will carry on. I am not sure an abdication is an acceptable choice for her and the way her dedication to the Monarchy is

Iluvbertie · #**154** 09-21-2010, 05:41 AM

I remember Charles at William's age and he was seen as the 'bright young thing' and the 'hope of the monarchy' due to his popularity and hard work, particularly having set up The Prince's Trust and the quantity of work he was doing for the Queen. Of course he was the heir but William has done nothing much at all in his 28 years in comparison to Charles, who had already left the military and was a full time royal. Charles was seen to have a lot of substance in his late 20s and then he married the wrong woman and things went wrong for him but he is returning to some of the popularity that he had then - of course he will never regain that popularity because of the Diana effect (unfortunately).

muriel · #**155** 09-21-2010, 06:40 AM

Lets also not forget that Charles grew up in a different time, with people in general were a lot more deferential, and there was a lot less media intrusion. William cannot step out to buy groceries without having CCTV images being sold to the tabloids. I suspect in view of William's position as heir to the heir, and the presence of a number of other active royals, HM and Prince Charles are happy for William to continue in the armed forces. I am confident that when the time comes for William to take on his royal duties on a full time basis, he will make a success of them. As of now, IMO, it is just a bunch of disgruntled tabloid journalists complaining as a way to fill up pages. IMO There would have been a reasonable chance that William would have come for criticism for not spending enough time in the armed services from these very same people had he taken up royal duties instead of joining the SAR!!!

Duke of Marmalade · #**156** 09-21-2010, 12:10 PM

William doesnt strike me as somebody who is keen on he job, maybe understandable, and he is happy to use the military career for not having to commit on anything, be it royal duties or Kate. Plus, he (and Harry) doensnt seem to be the sharpest knives in the drawer so to say, while I believe that Charles is actually intelligent, a deep thinker. For me William is more on the superficial side, like his mother, and while she was brilliant with people, I rather see him as distant Windsor when he gets older.

Many young royals were struggling, eg Haakon of Norway or Frederik of Denmark, who openly admitted their doubts. William doesnt seem much different, but what lies ahead will be much tougher. My bet is that if he could lead a different life, without the task, the media and the past that will confront him for the rest of his life, he would.

KittyAtlanta · #**157** 09-21-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

William doesnt strike me as somebody who is keen on he job, maybe understandable, and he is happy to use the military career for not having to commit on anything, be it royal duties or Kate. Plus, he (and Harry) doensnt seem to be the sharpest knives in the drawer so to say, while I believe that Charles is actually intelligent, a deep thinker. For me William is more on the superficial side, like his mother, and while she was brilliant with people, I rather see him as distant Windsor when he gets older.

Many young royals were struggling, eg Haakon of Norway or Frederik of Denmark, who openly admitted their doubts. William doesnt seem much different, but what lies ahead will be much tougher. My bet is that if he could lead a different life, without the task, the media and the past that will confront him for the rest of his life, he would.

Although he is heir to the heir, not commiting to anything is truly a waste of life. Education is necessary, but he is never going to be able to do tasks for which he has been trained. They are far too dangerous.

There is nothing to stop William leading a different life. Being in line to the throne does not preclude a person from being who they want to be or doing what they want to do. However, I don't think he'd be strong enough to step out on his own.

Duke of Marmalade · #**158** 09-21-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta

Education is necessary, but he is never going to be able to do tasks for which he has been trained. They are far too dangerous.

Very true, same goes for Harry. Hopefully their position as search and rescue / helicopter pilot are in addition to budget, otherwise they only take away somebody elses place, who would actually do full work in his profession, incl the risky part.

No Royal who will be Head of State one day will need such a detailed training over several years, usually the 1-2 year pro forma thing will do. In Williams case, IMO he uses the education to escape commitments, although tolerated by his family.

Iluvbertie · #**159** 09-21-2010, 04:27 PM

My understanding is that the British taxpayers are paying for this training and they are taking up places and resources that could be better utilised unless they are truly going to serve.

William's role is easier as he can serve from home and not under fire but the weather and conditions under which these guys work will be dangerous - it is the nature of the job and if he isn't going to be used in that way then the British public have a right to insist that he repay the costs of his 5 years of military training - yes he has been training for most of the last 5 years, having started in 2005 at Sandhurst with short times off from training for 'experiential' service with the navy and airforce.

Harry has spent most of the last 6 years in training, with a short stint of actual service with the Blues and Royals but mainly simply training (while others who trained with him have been serving continually).

If they aren't going to do what they have been trained for then the British public are being ripped off by these young men and should demand a full refund.

However I do think that the BRF have looked at ways that they can serve and thus they will finally do something with the years of training - William serving for the next three years in the SAR and Harry returning to Afghanistan to kill as many Afghanis and others as he can from his Apache attack helicopter.

muriel · #**160** 09-22-2010, 05:40 AM

Each of us have our own views on this. IMO, most of us British people expect young royals like William and Harry to serve in the armed forces for some time. There is a slight contradiction in this, as we would also like to see them undertaking royal duties. Clearly there is a balance to strike between how much time is spent in the armed forces and at what stage somebody like William takes on full time royal duties. Sure, there will be an outlay on his training, but we can't really expect him to join the armed forces and not be trained. IMO, any complaints about the cost of training William are really indicative of a thought process that is perhaps not as well developed as it could be.