Coronation of British Monarchs

[LauraS3514]

The first segment, on Edward VII, is a re-creation using actors. The film maker was denied permission to film the actual Coronation in The Abbey.

 

[Blog Real]

While the monarch of the UK is also the Supreme Governor of the Church of England they will have a coronation with a religious aspect as this ceremony isn't just about crowing a monarch but investing a new Supreme Governor of the CoE.

I doubt that it will ever again be on the scale of Elizabeth's but it will still be a large event.

I am also of that opinion. There will be a coronation, not on the Elizabeth II scale, but it will exist.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Coronation of Queen Mary I on October 1st 1553 was the last Catholic English Coronation.

The Coronation of the Catholic King James II and Queen Mary in April 1685 was a Protestant Ceremony, though I think he also had a private Catholic ceremony one at the chapel at Whitehall.

The Coronation of Mary Queen of Scots on September 9th 1543 at Stirling Castle chapel was the last Scottish Roman Catholic ceremony.

 

[Durham]

The Coronation of the Catholic King James II and Queen Mary in April 1685 was a Protestant Ceremony, though I think he also had a private Catholic ceremony one at the chapel at Whitehall.

That I didn't know. Very interesting that James had an RC chapel built inside Whitehall.

 

[An Ard Ri]

That I didn't know. Very interesting that James had an RC chapel built inside Whitehall.

Which caused much controversy during that fiercely anti Catholic period.
The chapel was designed by Sir Christopher Wren and constructed between 1685 & 1687,it was destroyed by fire in 1698.

 

[Durham]

Which caused much controversy during that fiercely anti Catholic period.
The chapel was designed by Sir Christopher Wren and constructed between 1685 & 1687,it was destroyed by fire in 1698.

Yes a great loss. It would have been marvelous if the palace had survived. The banqueting house looks rather forlorn today.

 

[maria-olivia]

Princess Margaret wore Queen Maud of Norway purple velvet ( nos royaux norvegiens)

 

[CyrilVladisla]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378493
The pictures of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation dress and coronation robe are beautiful. The details in the skirt are spectacular.
I like the embroidery on the Coronation Glove.

 

[QueenMathilde]

I didn't see anyone posted this anywhere and I think it's cute - Queen Elizabeth talks about what it's like to wear the crown. The interviewer is right you're wearing stones on your head.

 

[Claire]

The nice thing about the interview is the Queen is quiet relaxed - as she has know Alastair Bruce for so long.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Elizabeth of York who always played second fiddle to her mother in Law was all was given a splendid Coronation on the 25th November 1487, St Catherine's Day at Westminster Abbey.

https://www.tudorsociety.com/coronation-of-elizabeth-of-york-25-november-1487/

 

[CyrilVladisla]

April 23 has a significance. You may inquire Why?
April 23 was the day of three different coronations.
All the sovereigns were Stuarts.
April 23, 1661 *** The Coronation of King Charles II
April 23, 1685 *** The Coronation of King James II
April 23, 1702 *** The Coronation of Queen Anne

 

[Iluvbertie]

Stuart monarchs getting crowned as the monarchs of England on St George's day - the day of the Patron Saint of England.

 

[An Ard Ri]

April 23 has a significance. You may inquire Why?
April 23 was the day of three different coronations.
All the sovereigns were Stuarts.
April 23, 1661 *** The Coronation of King Charles II
April 23, 1685 *** The Coronation of King James II
April 23, 1702 *** The Coronation of Queen Anne

William III and Mary II broke that tradition by choosing the 11th of April 1689 as the date for their joint Coronation.

 

[VictoriaB]

In the Sussex tread there are questions and comments about the homage during the coronation. Here is a link to the full coverage of the Queen's coronation

www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NTjasbmgw

At approximately 1:41 the homage begins. You can see that the Archbishop of Canterbury personally pays homage before the Queen and at the same time the Archbishop of York and Bishops, in their places, pledge their allegiance. Then each of the Royal Dukes individually and in order of precedence pays homage. Then the senior peer of each rank Duke, Marquis, Earl, Viscount, Baron, pays homage before the Queen but while they do so, each of the Peers of than rank also pay homage.

If Charles follows the same precedent it would be the Archbishop of Canterbury, William, Harry, Andrew, Edward (assuming he is created Duke of Edinburgh), Richard, Edward Kent and then onto the Duke of Norfolk followed by each of the most senior of the other ranks of peer.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

On the cover of Star magazine was the declaration that Prince Charles's (King Charles III's) Coronation would cost $125 million.

 

[rob2008]

If Charles follows the same precedent it would be the Archbishop of Canterbury, William, Harry, Andrew, Edward (assuming he is created Duke of Edinburgh), Richard, Edward Kent and then onto the Duke of Norfolk followed by each of the most senior of the other ranks of peer.

If he chooses to retain the homage, Charles is likely to remove this from the Coronation service itself and instead hold it as a separate event on another day - possibly in Westminster Hall. Homage is likely to be 'evolved' into a different form. In particular the special tribute from the ranks of the peerage is anachronistic and will probably not happen. It is contradictory for the church (even the Church of England) to submit to an earthly monarch. Surely this will be recognised and therefore abandoned.

 

[Blog Real]

I think Charles' coronation is already being prepared. The royal family must have already decided how this will happen.
I hope it will be a great event and that it will carry on with almost all the traditions of the traditional British coronation.

 

[Iluvbertie]

If he chooses to retain the homage, Charles is likely to remove this from the Coronation service itself and instead hold it as a separate event on another day - possibly in Westminster Hall. Homage is likely to be 'evolved' into a different form. In particular the special tribute from the ranks of the peerage is anachronistic and will probably not happen. It is contradictory for the church (even the Church of England) to submit to an earthly monarch. Surely this will be recognised and therefore abandoned.

The homage is one of the most important part of the ceremony as it signifies the loyalty of the peerage, and thus the population to the new monarch.

 

[Iluvbertie]

I think Charles' coronation is already being prepared. The royal family must have already decided how this will happen.
I hope it will be a great event and that it will carry on with almost all the traditions of the traditional British coronation.

The first meeting about Charles' coronation was held within a month of The Queen's with the Queen attending the meeting to go through things that didn't go as perfectly as she would have liked at her coronation.

The Duke of Norfolk reviews his plans with Charles at least once a year and sometimes more often. He will be doing a review later this month or next due to the fact that the status of the Head of State of Barbados will need to be updated.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

If Charles follows the same precedent it would be the Archbishop of Canterbury, William, Harry, Andrew, Edward (assuming he is created Duke of Edinburgh), Richard, Edward Kent and then onto the Duke of Norfolk followed by each of the most senior of the other ranks of peer.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the line will go The Archbishop of Canterbury - The Prince of Wales (William) - The Duke of Norfolk - The Marquess of Winchester - The Earl of Shrewsbury - The Viscount Hereford - Baron de Ros - and Sir Nicolas Hickman Ponsonby Bacon, 14:th and 15:th Baronet.

Skipping the other Royal Dukes would both cut time in an already too long ceremony, and spare any controversy regarding The Duke’s of York and Sussex...

Then the other Royal Dukes will do as the other peers does when the senior peers of each rank pays homage - and fall on their knees where they are standing, and read at the same time as William kneels before his father and does his homage.

It would be lovely to see The Duke of Kent make it to the next coronation !!! By that time, most britons were either not born or too young to remember the last coronation - while he was not only there but also paid homage to The Queen himself

 

[rob2008]

I.. The Duke of Norfolk - The Marquess of Winchester - The Earl of Shrewsbury - The Viscount Hereford - Baron de Ros - and Sir Nicolas Hickman Ponsonby Bacon, 14:th and 15:th Baronet.


Why Shrewsbury? The current Earl of Sutherland's title goes back more than 200 years before Shrewsbury and the current Earl of Crawford's title is also older than Shrewsbury's.

Baronets are not peers so have not not undertaken homage duties. It doesn't stay the same. The banquet was abandoned in 1831 as was individual homage by peers. This is why there is this discussion about representatives from ranks - which was a compromise designed to shorten the service and retain the right and duty to pay individual homage. Charles III will likely mutatis mutandum abandon the anachronism of homage as well as crowning of the consort. It will be a vastly different ceremony from the last gasp expression of imperial pomp in 1953. It will be visually distinctive/ different too. As a practical type, I wouldn't be surprised if William V reduces the event further in the spirit of William IV.

 

[rob2008]

On the cover of Star magazine was the declaration that Prince Charles's (King Charles III's) Coronation would cost $125 million.

If I remember correctly, I think that was just the amount for the ladies' hats.

 

[Somebody]

It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the line will go The Archbishop of Canterbury - The Prince of Wales (William) - The Duke of Norfolk - The Marquess of Winchester - The Earl of Shrewsbury - The Viscount Hereford - Baron de Ros - and Sir Nicolas Hickman Ponsonby Bacon, 14:th and 15:th Baronet.

Skipping the other Royal Dukes would both cut time in an already too long ceremony, and spare any controversy regarding The Duke’s of York and Sussex...

Then the other Royal Dukes will do as the other peers does when the senior peers of each rank pays homage - and fall on their knees where they are standing, and read at the same time as William kneels before his father and does his homage.

It would be lovely to see The Duke of Kent make it to the next coronation !!! By that time, most britons were either not born or too young to remember the last coronation - while he was not only there but also paid homage to The Queen himself

That could be an excellent solution if they want to keep it in some form!

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Why Shrewsbury? The current Earl of Sutherland's title goes back more than 200 years before Shrewsbury and the current Earl of Crawford's title is also older than Shrewsbury's.

But The Earl of Crawford and The Earl of Sutherland are titles in the peerage of Scotland. Not England.

The Earl of Shrewsbury is regarded as the Premier Earl of England as the senior Earl in the peerage of England with no higher title... Though the Earldom of Arundel (held by The Duke of Norfolk) is older.

 

[Durham]

Yes it would solve a lot of thorny issues. The heir to the throne plus the senior peer of each degree. Then no one can moan they've been left out!

 

[Durham]

I.. The Duke of Norfolk - The Marquess of Winchester - The Earl of Shrewsbury - The Viscount Hereford - Baron de Ros - and Sir Nicolas Hickman Ponsonby Bacon, 14:th and 15:th Baronet.

It will be a vastly different ceremony from the last gasp expression of imperial pomp in 1953. It will be visually distinctive/ different too. As a practical type, I wouldn't be surprised if William V reduces the event further in the spirit of William IV.

Even a coronation on the scale of William IV's would look very grand in these times. But yes 1953 was a very extravagant affair indeed & would be entirely inappropriate today.

 

[Osipi]

Or... a full blown out coronation with all the traditions and the bells and the whistles could be just what the doctor ordered for a nation that has been through so much over the past years. Something that serves to bind and cement a sense of nationalism and pride as Great Britain and the Commonwealth of Nations embrace their new monarch.

I think it would really alleviate the sense of loss that the nation will feel over the loss of their iconic Queen Elizabeth II that, perhaps, will have been the *only* monarch the majority of people ever knew. To witness all the pomp and circumstance and bells and whistles of traditions that accompany the coronation of a British monarch will be a first time event for most people and can only inspire and cement the feeling of continuity of the British monarchy in my book.

JMO as always. ?

 

[Durham]

I'm sure the coronation will still be a grand spectacle just not the in the same league as 1953.

Or at least not outside the abbey. The service inside may well be very similar but the military parade through the streets of London won't be anywhere near as big. Then it was 30 000 soldiers from various dominions & colonies to emphasis Britain's continued imperial might. The parade was two miles long.

It may well look like a mix of trooping & the Windsor muster of 2012.

 

[Osipi]

I'm sure the coronation will still be a grand spectacle just not the in the same league as 1953.

Or at least not outside the abbey. The service inside may well be very similar but the military parade through the streets of London won't be anywhere near as big. Then it was 30 000 soldiers from various dominions & colonies to emphasis Britain's continued imperial might. The parade was two miles long.

It may well look like a mix of trooping & the Windsor muster of 2012.

Very good points. I think the majority of us tend to forget that when Queen Elizabeth's coronation happened in 1953, there still was a sense of a British Empire remaining which has seriously decreased ever since and the Commonwealth of Nations grew with former empire members becoming their own entities and choosing to be members of the Commonwealth. The coronation of Charles will lack the empirical element that was present in 1953.

Whatever happens, I'm sure it will be relevant to the current times and reflect the nation as a people. One thing I imagine though is that Charles will be very, very hands on when it comes to carbon footprints of his coronation. It's what he does.

I'd really, really like it if Charles, after coronation, was known as Charles the Green. ?