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  #1441  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:28 AM
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I don’t think it’s far fetched for Doris to be included in the festivities.
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  #1442  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:37 AM
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I hope they don’t stay at Anmer Hall. I’m hoping The Middletons and The Matthews join The Cambridges for Christmas.
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  #1443  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
I'm so confused about the visa situation, I read on the visa thread, that she wouldn't be allowed to exit UK with fiancé visa for a certain amount of time.


As she’s been in the USA last week, and might still be that can’t be right. O can’t as anything on any visa website that says she can’t exit.

The only clause is she can’t work while on it, and it’s valid for 6 months.
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  #1444  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:41 AM
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I can't remember exactly when it was but there was a time when Kate's parents were staying at Anmer Hall and also attended the church service that the royal family was attending (and if I remember right, also walked en famille to church) with the Middletons arriving separately.

This may happen this year. Harry and Meghan at Amner Hall (at Sandringham) with Meghan's mom and for the walk to church, Harry may decide to walk with Meghan and her mother to church but separate from the royal family. It would be a way to keep traditions as they were yet include the royal fiancee.

As had been stated previously, Kate and William didn't have to face this situation as William was on duty at Anglesy RAF on Christmas Day in order to give married service members time to be with their families.

This is just my supposition and based in pure supposition on what I know of how the royal family does things. The Queen may actually have changed it all up as is her prerogative to do. We'll see.
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  #1445  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
That wouldn't surprise me either, but I really didn't see it coming. I personally, I'm sure they do deep down as well but they'd never admit it, feel like it's a slap in the face for Catherine and Sophie.

Maybe you're right Osipi and we won't see Meghan at church and she will just be spending Christmas with them. But....
Why is it a slap for Catherine? The Christmas of 2010 when she was engaged but not married, William was not there. He was on SAR duty.
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  #1446  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:42 AM
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it's a slap in the face for Catherine and Sophie.
I REALLY think both Women have the kindness [and intelligence] to understand that
a] time moves on, and there has been a further 'thaw' in the BRF attitude to newcomers even since they 'married in'.
b]Ms Markle is from abroad, and it would be unfriendly and unwelcoming to leave her without her innamorata over Christmas.
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  #1447  
Old 12-13-2017, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoasneeze View Post
I'm so confused about the visa situation, I read on the visa thread, that she wouldn't be allowed to exit UK with fiancé visa for a certain amount of time.
I don't believe that's true. She can't apply for the fiance visa while in UK. She has to apply for it while she's abroad. Then enter on the fiance visa once it's approved. However, the fiance visa is multiple entry. Meaning she can leave and re-enter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
That wouldn't surprise me either, but I really didn't see it coming. I personally, I'm sure they do deep down as well but they'd never admit it, feel like it's a slap in the face for Catherine and Sophie.

Maybe you're right Osipi and we won't see Meghan at church and she will just be spending Christmas with them. But....
I really think taking this as a slap in the face would be a bit childish and immature. There are multiple things going on here. The Queen and Prince Philip are at an age where we can't be sure about next Christmas. It's not that far of a stretch to think that Harry might want one Christmas with both of his grandparents, whom he is close to, and the woman he plans to spend the rest of his life with together. Then there is also the fact that she's a foreigner who have recently moved her whole life and given up a lot to move to the UK whereas Sophie and Kate both had families in UK. I'm not sure if Sophie even engaged at the Christmas before her wedding. Kate wasn't going to go to Sandringham as a fiancee when William wasn't there.

I'd be surprised if Meghan's mom is in UK for Christmas though. And I don't think Harry will leave his fiancee alone at Anmer Hall while they all attend church service. If she wasn't going to be seen at Sandringham during Christmas (and really, the only guarantee of seeing her is during that walk), KP wouldn't have made this announcement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaira View Post
I am surprised that KP announced it but KP seems to prefer to announce things more than the other households. Like they announced who was attending Pippa’s wedding earlier this year which seemed strange to me.

I am very excited!!!
They did state at the BP briefing on the engagement that Christmas plans would be announced in the following weeks when asked by reporters on whether or not Meghan will be at Sandringham for Christmas. Emily Andrews tweeted that that answer surprised her because they asked while fully expected to be told that Sandringham is only for spouses. The briefing was run by KP (Jason Knauf), but staff from Clarence House and BP were there to support.
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  #1448  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
I don't believe that's true. She can't apply for the fiance visa while in UK. She has to apply for it while she's abroad. Then enter on the fiance visa once it's approved. However, the fiance visa is multiple entry. Meaning she can leave and re-enter.


With the visa being six months, meaning they marry in that six months logically when she re-enters this time (December) perhaps it’s on a fiancée visa.
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  #1449  
Old 12-13-2017, 10:15 AM
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Thanks for explaining the visa situation, and apologies to the mods for taking this OT.

I don't think Harry would leave her alone at Anmer Hall while the rest of the family goes to the church services. I read that announcement, as Meghan being part of the while Christmas celebration, church walk and all.
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  #1450  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I REALLY think both Women have the kindness [and intelligence] to understand that
a] time moves on, and there has been a further 'thaw' in the BRF attitude to newcomers even since they 'married in'.
b]Ms Markle is from abroad, and it would be unfriendly and unwelcoming to leave her without her innamorata over Christmas.
I wholeheartedly agree. IMO the BRF has acknowledged that there can be flexibility when it comes to the holidays. I believe it was Mark Phillips' mother who complained that they never saw their son, daughter-in-law and grandchildren for the holidays. I know that Diana wanted to spend at least one Christmas with her father before he passed, but was told that wouldn't be possible. The Queen began inviting Sophie's father when he was widowed and IMO that was the turning point in the relaxing of these traditions. The Queen and the DoE are not left alone as there are always members of the family in and around Sandringham. To allow people the opportunity to alternate holidays or to invite a newcomer to join them is an example of kindness IMHO. Many in the UK and around the world have to face the same every year, so I'm not surprised that the BRF does too.
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  #1451  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:13 AM
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People still moan when the Cambridges go to Kate's family at Christmas. I have never understood why. Everyone else in the world with two sets of family often alternate holidays.


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  #1452  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post

I really think taking this as a slap in the face would be a bit childish and immature. There are multiple things going on here. The Queen and Prince Philip are at an age where we can't be sure about next Christmas. It's not that far of a stretch to think that Harry might want one Christmas with both of his grandparents, whom he is close to, and the woman he plans to spend the rest of his life with together. Then there is also the fact that she's a foreigner who have recently moved her whole life and given up a lot to move to the UK whereas Sophie and Kate both had families in UK. I'm not sure if Sophie even engaged at the Christmas before her wedding. Kate wasn't going to go to Sandringham as a fiancee when William wasn't there.
I agree with all of the above.

Another thing about this situation--Harry & Meghan have the advantage of his brother and sister-in-law living in a separate house on the grounds. That's not quite the same as being invited/staying at the Big House.
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  #1453  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Why is it a slap for Catherine? The Christmas of 2010 when she was engaged but not married, William was not there. He was on SAR duty.
Kate is from England. She has roots there and family. Meghan's family and roots are in the US and she just relocated to GB. It would have been rude and unkind to not allow her to attend and if that had happened Harry would not have attended either. This exception was the right thing to do.
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  #1454  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:16 PM
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There’s a danger in reading too much into every small detail and dissecting every announcement as some newspapers are wont to do. It is what it is. Meghan will be at Sandringham for Christmas. It doesn’t imply, suggest or change anything else. It’s just that.
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  #1455  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:22 PM
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For all the talk of "rules" among royal-watchers and the press (talk based on observation, not firm word from within that the rules even really exist), we've seen a lot of small adaptations from the BRF from the early 90s on. It seems to me they've learned a lot from their experiences, including the process of adjusting to a slate of new members who've come in from backgrounds less fixated on noble etiquette (Sophie, Kate, Autumn, Mike) about how joyful it can be to take a slightly more expansive view on who can and can't be part of various celebrations and the kind of relationships royals can have with their inlaws and incoming members. If anything, taking the step of inviting Meghan seems to me to be a nod of approval for how well it's worked to be more flexible with the others.
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  #1456  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by loonytick View Post
For all the talk of "rules" among royal-watchers and the press (talk based on observation, not firm word from within that the rules even really exist), we've seen a lot of small adaptations from the BRF from the early 90s on. It seems to me they've learned a lot from their experiences, including the process of adjusting to a slate of new members who've come in from backgrounds less fixated on noble etiquette (Sophie, Kate, Autumn, Mike) about how joyful it can be to take a slightly more expansive view on who can and can't be part of various celebrations and the kind of relationships royals can have with their inlaws and incoming members. If anything, taking the step of inviting Meghan seems to me to be a nod of approval for how well it's worked to be more flexible with the others.
I do find it interesting that in previous reporting, words like rules and protocol were often used, but upon today's announcement, it's "tradition" all around.

If anything, this monarch has shown that she understand changes happen all around and will make necessary adjustments to move her family forward.
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  #1457  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:42 PM
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If anything, this monarch has shown that she understand changes happen all around and will make necessary adjustments to move her family forward.
Not only 'this Monarch' either.. this throne has not endured nigh on a thousand years by a refusal to 'move with the times'.
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  #1458  
Old 12-13-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
I really think taking this as a slap in the face would be a bit childish and immature. There are multiple things going on here. The Queen and Prince Philip are at an age where we can't be sure about next Christmas. It's not that far of a stretch to think that Harry might want one Christmas with both of his grandparents, whom he is close to, and the woman he plans to spend the rest of his life with together. Then there is also the fact that she's a foreigner who have recently moved her whole life and given up a lot to move to the UK whereas Sophie and Kate both had families in UK. I'm not sure if Sophie even engaged at the Christmas before her wedding. Kate wasn't going to go to Sandringham as a fiancee when William wasn't there.
Well put on all counts. Plus in this we cannot discount the bias against Meghan because she is a person of color. This is a clear message that Meghan is being welcomed with open arms. I personally think the invitation has come because she is from another country with no resident family. It's only good manners imo, but it also has the additional effect of affirming her welcome while some are grousing that she is 'of color'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqui24 View Post
I'd be surprised if Meghan's mom is in UK for Christmas though. And I don't think Harry will leave his fiancee alone at Anmer Hall while they all attend church service. If she wasn't going to be seen at Sandringham during Christmas (and really, the only guarantee of seeing her is during that walk), KP wouldn't have made this announcement.
I think it's a coin toss regarding the location of Doria during the holidays. It's a bit 'fast' to have the mother-in-law in tow before the daughter has been fully integrated into the family, don't you think? Remembering that the Queen and Philip are older and this is their family gathering.

Meghan has likely spent Christmases away from family in previous years (very possible). Sometimes a person makes a choice between joining family on Thanksgiving or Christmas, especially if one is living at a distance as has Meghan.

While I suspect Doria is probably as delightful to meet as her daughter, I think Doria may be a little more laid back, and less interested in these 'perks' than most mothers. Meghan was able to handle her engagement photo op without her mother hovering.
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  #1459  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I think we would of seen it before however William was not present that Christmas after his engagement.

Looking forward to the walk to to Church!


LaRae
I think the previous traditions of fiancees not spending Christmas at Sandringham is also partly due to royal wives not being able to spend Christmas with their own families after the marriage. We know Diana wanted to spend Christmas with the Spencers prior to her father's death, but was told it can't happen. For a lot of them, until recently, that was the last Christmas they could spend with their own families.
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  #1460  
Old 12-13-2017, 01:48 PM
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I hope they don’t stay at Anmer Hall. I’m hoping The Middletons and The Matthews join The Cambridges for Christmas.
I don't think the Middletons will be there. They were only at Anmer for Christmas in 2014. It seems to have been a one-time failed experiment. W&C probably felt both families got shortchanged that year as they raced back and forth between the two. Now they seem to do full rotations, on odd years it's a Windsor Christmas, on even years Middleton Christmas at Bucklebury.

I'd be surprised if Meghan is at Anmer for Christmas. Harry always stays at the big house for Christmas, it would be weird for him to ditch his fiancee at his brother's house. Especially as Meghan is now there "officially" courtesy of KP, I see no reason why she wouldn't stay with Harry in the big house.
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