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  #681  
Old 12-21-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by cinrit View Post
The Telegraph allows you to read 10 articles "free of charge". After that, they want you to subscribe. But as Spheno pointed out, if after you read those 10 articles, you use a different browser, the Telegraph doesn't recognize you, and allows you to read more articles. Don't tell anyone, but I use three different browsers.
They kept doing this to me. I guess I b***hed enough to them about it I haven't seen the message in quite a long time and I know I read more than 10 articles. I even got the message when they used to allow 20 articles a month!
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  #682  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:59 AM
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Royal family members to sleep in servants quarters as the Queen invites 30 to Sandringham | Royal | News | Daily Express

Mainly the article talks about how once again some members of the Royal Family will have to stay in servants rooms as there will be 30 people staying at Sandringham.
It also mentions that at the start of her reign the Queen and her family celebrated Christmas at Sandringham but that as there were more and more people in the family they moved Christmas to Windsor.
I never knew the Queen had moved her Christmas from Sandringham to Windsor, I always thought Christmas was always celebrated at Windsor until the fire. Maybe the Queen would consider moving her Christmas celebrations to Windsor once more.
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  #683  
Old 12-22-2013, 07:18 AM
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It is entirely possible. Sandringham is pretty much at max capacity. As the queen's grandchildren get married and have kids, I can see them going back to Windsor where there is more room. I don't see the Queen not inviting David and Sarah's families to Sandringham. The Queen has always been close to them.
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  #684  
Old 12-22-2013, 03:00 PM
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The Queen though is nearing the end of her reign - sad but true - and I don't see a change coming. Next year William and Kate won't be in the big house and possibly Harry will stay with them rather than in the 'big house'. There are also other houses on the estate they could use - let David and Sarah and their families for instance stay in Wood House although do all the other things at the big house.

I can also see more of the grandchildren not going to Sandringham and splitting Christmas with their in-laws, as William and Kate did last year.

When Charles is King I would expect the numbers to be smaller - with possibly not even his siblings all invited every year - allowing for a rotation.
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  #685  
Old 12-22-2013, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Queen though is nearing the end of her reign - sad but true - and I don't see a change coming. Next year William and Kate won't be in the big house and possibly Harry will stay with them rather than in the 'big house'. There are also other houses on the estate they could use - let David and Sarah and their families for instance stay in Wood House although do all the other things at the big house.

I can also see more of the grandchildren not going to Sandringham and splitting Christmas with their in-laws, as William and Kate did last year.

When Charles is King I would expect the numbers to be smaller - with possibly not even his siblings all invited every year - allowing for a rotation.
I understand your argument but it seems to me it is based on the premis that this is all about the Queen. If that were true then if the King invites you for Christmas, then I think the family would go as they do now. Its become as much a tradition for them as it is for her.

Charles, if not apparently close to his siblings, does seem close to most of the next generation. He is particularly fond of Sarah Chatto for example. His children are close to their cousins and he'd like to maintain that, IMO.

I think the atmosphere might be more relaxed than now, as it seems the Queen has the Edwardian Christmas her parents enjoyed.

I think that there will be little change in attendees - and certainly not immediately as the family would want to be seen to support the new King.
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  #686  
Old 12-22-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Queen though is nearing the end of her reign - sad but true - and I don't see a change coming. Next year William and Kate won't be in the big house and possibly Harry will stay with them rather than in the 'big house'. There are also other houses on the estate they could use - let David and Sarah and their families for instance stay in Wood House although do all the other things at the big house.

I can also see more of the grandchildren not going to Sandringham and splitting Christmas with their in-laws, as William and Kate did last year.

When Charles is King I would expect the numbers to be smaller - with possibly not even his siblings all invited every year - allowing for a rotation.
I agree that this is a likely scenario for future BRF Christmases with King Charles.
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  #687  
Old 12-22-2013, 05:38 PM
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I understand your argument but it seems to me it is based on the premis that this is all about the Queen. If that were true then if the King invites you for Christmas, then I think the family would go as they do now. Its become as much a tradition for them as it is for her.
I do think it is all about The Queen and being there for her - note how Beatrice and Eugenie never get to see their own mother at Christmas (or Peter and Zara for that matter see their own father). That is unreasonable in most families.

Quote:
Charles, if not apparently close to his siblings, does seem close to most of the next generation. He is particularly fond of Sarah Chatto for example. His children are close to their cousins and he'd like to maintain that, IMO.
Sarah Chatto is Charles' own generation and being 'fond' doesn't necessarily mean you need to see them at Christmas or that they want to always spend Christmas with a cousin rather than with the other side of their family.

I don't think that William is particularly close to his younger cousins and he has already had one Christmas with the Middleton's and I expect that will happen more and more - next year I would expect him to be with them rather than with the royals, unless they are also at Anmer Hall.

Quote:
I think the atmosphere might be more relaxed than now, as it seems the Queen has the Edwardian Christmas her parents enjoyed.
Charles also enjoys the formalities etc that he has grown up - I don't see it more relaxed under Charles - just a different and smaller family group - Charles and Camilla, William, Harry and their families and possibly Tom and Laura and their families.

Quote:
I think that there will be little change in attendees - and certainly not immediately as the family would want to be seen to support the new King.
I see the biggest change in attendees happening - replacing siblings and cousins with step-children so that his wife can also have Christmas with her family.
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  #688  
Old 12-22-2013, 05:53 PM
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agree to disagree then

Point of fact - I wouldn't call Sarah Chatto "Charles generation" she was born in 1964, and is not 50 until May 1 2014. Same age as Sophie.
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  #689  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:20 PM
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Sophie is the same generation as Charles too.
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  #690  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:22 PM
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No - 49 and 65 is not the same generation
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  #691  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:26 PM
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I am not sure if I would put Sophie and Charles in the same generation or not...I mean Edward and Charles are both children of the Queen but there is quite an age gap. I suppose they are the same generation in a sense, but Edward and Sophie are in completely different life stages than Charles is.
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  #692  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:34 PM
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Well I would never have put Diana in the same generation as Charles and she was 3 years older than Sophie and Sarah Chatto. When Charles was 31 and getting married, Edward and Sophie were still at school. Having the same parent does not mean you are of the same generation.
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  #693  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:36 PM
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I understand your argument but it seems to me it is based on the premis that this is all about the Queen.
Cepe - I agree that the Queen does not think it's all about her.

On the other hand, they are celebrating Christmas in the way the Queen thinks is best for the family and the firm. It's not ego centric - but she does rule the roost.

I will not be surprised at all if Charles keeps some traditions and starts some new ones as part of how he sees the best way to celebrate Christmas for the family and firm.

And I really have no firm idea what he might think that is. I'm not an insider and have no idea what's working well and what might be dysfunctional, in his eyes. And yes, I believe all families have their own dysfunctions. Even Royal ones.
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  #694  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:43 PM
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From most counts, Charles and Sarah are of the same generation, while Sophie both is and isn't (Edward, on the other hand, is).

The Baby Boom generation is the generation born between 1946 and 1964 - making Charles, his siblings, and both his maternal cousins all Baby Boomers.

Sophie, however, is Generation X, which covers those born between about 1965 and 1985 (some counts start Gen X at 1963, which would make Sarah and Edward Gen X as well). In addition to Sophie, this also includes the Phillips and the Wales children. In contrast, the Yorks, Wessexes, Chattos, and Armstrong-Joneses would be Gen Y or Millennials.

From a familial generation approach, however, Charles, his siblings, his cousins, and their respective spouses are all of the same generation as they're all grandchildren (or spouses of grandchildren) of George VI. Similarly, the Wales, York, Wessex, Phillips, Chatto, and Armstrong-Jones children are all of the same generation because they're all great-grandchildren of George VI.
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  #695  
Old 12-22-2013, 07:20 PM
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I think in this case "generation" means as in first cousins regardless of age. I have that same situation in my own family- my first cousins range in age from 83 to late 40s.
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  #696  
Old 12-22-2013, 08:03 PM
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It may mean that to some, but 65 and 40 or 83 and 40 are not the same generation. We have had your definitions of generation in my family, my father and some of his cousins were 20 some odd years apart. They were cousins, but they were not the same generation.
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  #697  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:01 PM
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There is a familiar generation and a social generation. Prince William and Viscount Severn are in the same familiar generation as grandchildren of the Queen but not in the same social generation since one is 31 and the other 6.

If Bea and Eugenie or Peter and Zara wanted to spend Christmas with their other parent, I think the Queen would have let them. William in 2010 volunteered to work at RAF Valley and spent last year in Bucklebury with the Queen's permission. With Amner Hall, next year the Middletons could stay there with the Cambridges doing Christmas Eve with the royals and then spend Christmas Day with the Middletons after church.
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  #698  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post

I don't think that William is particularly close to his younger cousins and he has already had one Christmas with the Middleton's and I expect that will happen more and more - next year I would expect him to be with them rather than with the royals, unless they are also at Anmer Hall.

I actually think once Anmer Hall is complete there's a good chance the Middletons will spend Christmas there every year- it's just such a perfect compromise, allowing Kate to have her family and their traditions and allowing William to do what's expected of him.
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Old 12-22-2013, 09:13 PM
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We humans do love to classify things and put labels on them and put them in boxes, don't we!

"Generation" is necessarily flexible concept because of the variables involved, and it also has different meanings for different purposes, and is defined differently by different people.

Speaking of the relationship between people in a family, I restrict it to mean all of the offspring that are at the same stage of descent from a common ancestor, which accords with MarNoe's definition. Once you start comparing individuals who do not have a common ancestor, it gets more difficult, but in my view when A marries B and becomes the parent of the next generation of B's family, A and B are of the same generation despite the fact that A might have been 20 at the time of her wedding and B was 40.

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  #700  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:21 PM
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I actually think once Anmer Hall is complete there's a good chance the Middletons will spend Christmas there every year- it's just such a perfect compromise, allowing Kate to have her family and their traditions and allowing William to do what's expected of him.
If it is ok for William then it has to be ok for the others to either have their in-laws present or to miss to be with them and so a smaller gathering each year.
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