The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #161  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:15 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
Charles only has two sons. That said both son's children should be princes or princesses. If the Queen did it, for one of Charles's sons she should have done it for the other. I don't care about tradition or rules etc. This is the first biracial child in the family and that is another reason Archie should have HRH and be a prince. It looks as if the Queen favors one grandson's children over the other. And then to be told your baby would not have security. Does any realize how all looks? I see H&M's point.
Just for clarification; are you implying/arguing that Harry and Meghan's children should be titled because they are biracial? So, if Harry had married Chelsy or Cressida, it would have been ok if for his children the current LPs had been followed (and potentially issue a new one so in the future only the children of heirs in the direct line will be HRH) but because Meghan is biracial her children should be entitled to a title they wouldn't have had otherwise? While in certain circumstances I welcome positive discrimination (to balance out un/subconcious bias), I don't think the titles in the royal family should work that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
We don't know what was allegedly said, we don't know the context, and we don't know who allegedly said it. It was completely inappropriate for Harry to create a situation like this. Would you send round an e-mail saying that "someone" in your workplace or someone in your class at school had made racist remarks to you, knowing that then everyone would be speculating and fingers would be being unjustly pointed at various different people? It's not appropriate to tell half a story, knowing that it'll lead to a lot of people falling under suspicion.
My take is that it wasn't Harry who created that situation but Meghan. Apparently Harry had to indirectly correct his wife on international television to somewhat explain what truly happened. Clearly not the version that his wife wanted the public to believe: there was NO link between Archie's racial background and his position or title in the family (and rightly so). Why that one family member brought it up (because of concern for how the public might respond, not understanding how this would be a sensitive topic, or because that person was genuinely worried (which would be concerning)) we don't know.
__________________

  #162  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:25 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,437
More politicians have weighed in on the Oprah's interview, but these happened before the Palace statement was released

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Leader of the House of Commons & Lord President of the Council was asked about Harry & Meghan interview with Oprah on Moggcast, his fortnightly podcast on Conservative Home (British right-wing blog, independent of the Conservative Party). He mentioned that The Queen is loved and the royal family and monarchy are not damaged by this interview. In terms of constitutional issues, as mentioned by posters here, he said that Parliament legalisation could take Dukedom of Sussex away. He also talked about Archie & his sisters' title and the 1917's LP. He did however miss The Queen's 2012 amendment on giving all Cambridge children HRH Prince/Princess (but then podcast is coming to the end). He did not watch the Oprah's interview, because he doesn't have the ITV/Sky licence, but personally I think he's just too tired and no bothered to watch, especially with six children

The relevant part starts at 23:04
https://youtu.be/Ow1yueoFyBQ?t=1384

The Times have picked up what Jacob Ress-Mogg said in Conservative Home's Moggcast

HARRY AND MEGHAN INTERVIEW
Jacob Rees-Mogg says Queen is ‘loved’ and will remain popular
Harry and Meghan interview ‘won’t damage royal family or monarchy’
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...ular-l309sv02w

Steve Brine, former public health minister and Conservative MP for Winchester appeared on Times Radio saying that he's not surprise that government minister choose not to take sides on royal family conflicts. He also suggested that White House should have done the same.
Times Radio @TimesRadio
Steve Brine, former public health minister, says Harry and Meghan were ''used'' by Oprah.
'There is only one winner out of this interview, that is the potential presidential candidate Oprah Winfrey.'
Listen Speaker with three sound waves http://times.radio/listen
@JPonpolitics | @BrineMP
https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/statu...54801885057024
__________________

  #163  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:32 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Random thought - I'd love to know what the Spencers make of it all. They're just as much Harry's family as the Royals are. Is he in touch with them? How do they get on with Meghan?
Seems Harry and Meghan are quite close to his aunts. And Meghan mentioned she was talking to one of Diana's friends. So I think they are much closer to the Spencers than the Windsors.
  #164  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:33 PM
Somebody's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere, Suriname
Posts: 6,661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alisa View Post
The statement by the Queen was brilliant and very diplomatic. Not that I would expect anything less.

My only critique is that I wonder-though how do they as a family address racial issues and do so privately? It is simply not possible to do.

Over the years we've have Philip's numerous racists comments that have been well documented.
Harry himself in the early 2000s publicly uttered racial slurs- calling someone a "Paki" and the notorious Hitler costume
2 winters ago Princess Michael notoriously wore her black face jewelry to a party attended by Harry & Meghan.

Who knows of other instances that the public knows nothing of.

One thing that definitely cannot happen now is for Harry &Meghan to loose their titles and/or HRH. I would suggest that the Queen authorizes for a diverse independent group investigate the allegations that the couple made. Were they infact denied access to mental health help during Meghan's moment of crisis, why weren't hurtful stories about Meghan officially refuted while other royals were, who made the racists comments..etc.

It maybe that the findings reveals startling information requiring the Queen and senior courtiers to "clean house" so to speak or come up with some plan to hold "principals" accountable when they are wrong.
They might want to privately address H&M's description of what they considered based on race (such as Archie not getting a title); explaining again that it is completely unrelated. And might want to figure out what was exactly said in that one conversation that took place several years ago but made a lasting impact on Harry. It might have been memorable to the family member as well or that person might have no clue that something inappropriate was said. Not sure how addressing these issues publicly would help.

Regarding Meghan's mental health crisis, they didn't promise to look into it; so maybe they already know what instance that was about. Based on Harry's comments it seems that they never told members of the royal family (hence the statement that they are saddened to learn of the extend of their challenges; if I remember it correctly a similar sentiment was expressed after the South-Africa interview); so that would be about a member of staff that might have even been asked to keep it private who may only have come forward with their version of the event (for example "she never referred to suicidal thoughts" but I recall her one time asking whether she could go abroad for some time to seek help dealing with the pressure she was under - and recommended she discuss the issue with X as it was outside of my scope of work).

N.B. I applaud the queen (and her staff) for the statement. A very restraint response clearly with the intent of de-escalation while still getting the message across that we only heard one perspective of the story which doesn't necessarily correspond with the truth/how the BRF perceived it. Unfortunately the Dutch press wasn't as nuanced stating that the BRF was saddened to learn how Harry & Meghan felt they had been treated - and how the queen was troubled about the racism allegations.
  #165  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:44 PM
Kellydofc's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Out in the country, United States
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
Charles only has two sons. That said both son's children should be princes or princesses. If the Queen did it, for one of Charles's sons she should have done it for the other. I don't care about tradition or rules etc. This is the first biracial child in the family and that is another reason Archie should have HRH and be a prince. It looks as if the Queen favors one grandson's children over the other. And then to be told your baby would not have security. Does any realize how all looks? I see H&M's point.
Actually, if I'm correct the first biracial children in the family are in fact the grandchildren of Richard, Duke of Gloucester. The two girls are half Maori. This is of course leaving aside the question of if Queen Charlotte was biracial. I'm sure you mean the first in the immediate visible family but those two girls are there and they are in the line of succession.

I am sorry but I don't think Archie should have gotten special treatment and that is what it would have been. The LP giving George et al their titles was made before George's birth incase he was a girl, because if he was and William and Kate's second child had been a boy based on the AofS of 1907 the second child would have outranked the first. And given that there is now birth order succession that meant the future Queen would have been outranked by her brother. That is the ONLY reason why the LP was issued and all three of the Cambridge children have the title Prince(ss). There were no such issues when Archie was born so there was no need to make any special LP for him. I understand you don't see it that way but they can't just throw out rules and traditions whenever they want. That is not how monarchies work. They're not equal, there is a hierarchy, there are rules and traditions, that is how they function.
  #166  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:49 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
Actually, if I'm correct the first biracial children in the family are in fact the grandchildren of Richard, Duke of Gloucester. The two girls are half Maori. This is of course leaving aside the question of if Queen Charlotte was biracial. I'm sure you mean the first in the immediate visible family but those two girls are there and they are in the line of succession.

I am sorry but I don't think Archie should have gotten special treatment and that is what it would have been. The LP giving George et al their titles was made before George's birth incase he was a girl, because if he was and William and Kate's second child had been a boy based on the AofS of 1907 the second child would have outranked the first. And given that there is now birth order succession that meant the future Queen would have been outranked by her brother. That is the ONLY reason why the LP was issued and all three of the Cambridge children have the title Prince(ss). There were no such issues when Archie was born so there was no need to make any special LP for him. I understand you don't see it that way but they can't just throw out rules and traditions whenever they want. That is not how monarchies work. They're not equal, there is a hierarchy, there are rules and traditions, that is how they function.
You're correct and without sounding pedantic and rude, Lady Davina Windsor and Gary Lewis (sadly now divorced) have a son and daughter with Maori names. Co-incidentally, Senna Kowhai Lewis (b. 22 June 2010) and Tāne Mahuta Lewis (b. 25 May 2012) were the first ones (in terms of nearest relative to the sovereign) to be affected by the Succession of the Crown Act in 2015. Before this, Tāne was in front of his older sister Senna. When they were living in New Zealand, most neighbours and Gary Lewis' family & friends do not know about Lady Davina's royal background. They were nicknamed Denny and Gazza.
  #167  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:51 PM
Majesty
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pittsburgh, United States
Posts: 7,232
I don't know if that has already been discussed (only saw the news now), but apparently Piers Morgan has been canceled after saying he didn't believe a word of what Meghan said about her mental health.
  #168  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:54 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Unspecified, United States
Posts: 71
roseroyal said (in the prior thread):

“Whoa.. I thought the Queen ran the show. Sounds like there’s one person running the show and the Queen and whoever they are they need to go!”

Yes, Harry was referring to the men in gray who told the Queen to cancel her lunch with Harry.

For those who did not watch the video, Harry said he was invited by the Queen to have lunch and dinner with her when he arrived back in England. When he got there, he got a message that the lunch and dinner with Granny were cancelled. He called her from Frogmore Cottage and she told him that she had a meeting that she had forgotten about. When he asked about the rest of the week, she told him that she was too busy to see him. Harry said he did not push her because he knew what was happening. That it was regrettable that she was taking the advice of others and it made him sad because some of the advice was really bad.

This story was reported in the newspapers at the time and it was said that the men in gray were afraid that the Queen might agree to some of Harry’s wishes about his stepping away from royal duties because she is a softie when it comes to her grandchildren.

I agree with Harry that it is a sad story that he was prevented from seeing his grandmother.
  #169  
Old 03-09-2021, 06:57 PM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: N/A, Bulgaria
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Along with what you've explained, another point I'd like to make is that the "Firm" aka the monarchy does not and cannot decide who gets security or doesn't get security. That is totally up to the Metropolitan Police Protection Command which is funded by taxpayers. They assess and assign protection after examining the risk factor for a certain person. We can't blame the Queen or the "Firm" for any lack of security Archie would ever have in his lifetime as a son of senior working royals.

The Metropolitan Police Protection Squad is not a global protection force either. They have no jurisdiction outside of the UK. They do, however, provide protection for their British charges that travel out of the country and all expenses for their hotels, meals, airfare etc. are met by the British taxpayer.

Thank you. I suppose it's more cost effective this way, apart from freeing up protective officers for other purposes where the level of danger is deemed low. As we know, this kind of thing isn't cheap. I remember the clamouring when Beatrice and Eugenie lost their protection and let's face it, without a level of danger, Archie is less entitled to protection than they were. At the time, the girls were 5th and 6th in line for the throne. Archie was 7th at the time the decision was made.


I can't fathom how anyone could actually think that the protection is tied to the HRH. Even if we leave the line in succession bit alone, the fact is that Bea and Eugenie are HRHs without security details. I'd expect of Harry and Meghan to be informed about this - as their February 2020 statement showed, they are rather informed about the dealings and situations of "other titled members of the royal family". I firmly refuse to believe Meghan didn't know it when she tied the two things to each other.
  #170  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:00 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy Scot View Post
roseroyal said (in the prior thread):

“Whoa.. I thought the Queen ran the show. Sounds like there’s one person running the show and the Queen and whoever they are they need to go!”

Yes, Harry was referring to the men in gray who told the Queen to cancel her lunch with Harry.

For those who did not watch the video, Harry said he was invited by the Queen to have lunch and dinner with her when he arrived back in England. When he got there, he got a message that the lunch and dinner with Granny were cancelled. He called her from Frogmore Cottage and she told him that she had a meeting that she had forgotten about. When he asked about the rest of the week, she told him that she was too busy to see him. Harry said he did not push her because he knew what was happening. That it was regrettable that she was taking the advice of others and it made him sad because some of the advice was really bad.

This story was reported in the newspapers at the time and it was said that the men in gray were afraid that the Queen might agree to some of Harry’s wishes about his stepping away from royal duties because she is a softie when it comes to her grandchildren.

I agree with Harry that it is a sad story that he was prevented from seeing his grandmother.
I think in fairness Harry wasn't going to see her as a Grandmother but as a vehicle to get what he wanted. The Queen is in her 90s, it is obvious that at this stage she is not the one running the family. It's Charles. I think it was good advice to her. Harry would have tried and railroaded her. She thought he as probably coming for the weekend to see her like lots of the grandchidren do in January.

The one running the show is Charles and his private secretary...whose name escapes me but he isn't that popular.
  #171  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:03 PM
Kellydofc's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Out in the country, United States
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
You're correct and without sounding pedantic, Lady Davina Windsor and Gary Lewis (sadly now divorced) have a son and daughter with Maori names. Co-incidentally, Senna Kowhai Lewis (b. 22 June 2010) and Tāne Mahuta Lewis(25 May 2012) were the first ones (in terms of nearest relative to the sovereign) to be affected by the Succession of the Crown Act in 2015. Before this, Tāne was in front of his older sister Senna. When they were living in New Zealand, most neighbours and Gary Lewis' family & friends do not know about Lady Davina's royal background. They were nicknamed Denny and Gazza.
I apologize, I don't know why I thought Lady Davina and Gary Lewis had two daughters. I did remember they had divorced. I was sorry about that.
  #172  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:05 PM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,757
https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/meg...ew-1234924750/

CBS scores massive ratings. They are re-airing the interview next week.
  #173  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:07 PM
Kellydofc's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Out in the country, United States
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy Scot View Post
roseroyal said (in the prior thread):

“Whoa.. I thought the Queen ran the show. Sounds like there’s one person running the show and the Queen and whoever they are they need to go!”

Yes, Harry was referring to the men in gray who told the Queen to cancel her lunch with Harry.

For those who did not watch the video, Harry said he was invited by the Queen to have lunch and dinner with her when he arrived back in England. When he got there, he got a message that the lunch and dinner with Granny were cancelled. He called her from Frogmore Cottage and she told him that she had a meeting that she had forgotten about. When he asked about the rest of the week, she told him that she was too busy to see him. Harry said he did not push her because he knew what was happening. That it was regrettable that she was taking the advice of others and it made him sad because some of the advice was really bad.

This story was reported in the newspapers at the time and it was said that the men in gray were afraid that the Queen might agree to some of Harry’s wishes about his stepping away from royal duties because she is a softie when it comes to her grandchildren.

I agree with Harry that it is a sad story that he was prevented from seeing his grandmother.
I highly doubt anyone would have stopped Elizabeth from seeing her grandson if she had wanted.
  #174  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:13 PM
AC21091968's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellydofc View Post
I apologize, I don't know why I thought Lady Davina had two daughters. I did remember she and her husband had divorced. I was sorry about that.
No you're right. There is no need to apologise. You're response was great

I personally did not know much about the current Gloucester's family, particularly Lady Davina, Lady Rose and Earl of Ulster, until reading this forum and flicking through wikipedia. Lady Rose Gilman does not have her own wikipedia page and I don't think they have social media accounts. I guess the Gloucesters are keeping a more low profile compared to the Kents.

I did previously know about Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester serving as a Governor General of Australia, Prince William of Gloucester's tragic death and the current Duke of Gloucester's early architect career.
  #175  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:13 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 74
Piers Morgan has left ITV's Good Morning Britain following a row over comments he made about Meghan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-56334082
  #176  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:19 PM
Leopoldine's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 862
Meghan's costar from Suits, Wendell Pierce, slammed the interview:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-pandemic.html


The Bunk!
  #177  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:19 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Los Angeles, United States
Posts: 10,766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Random thought - I'd love to know what the Spencers make of it all. They're just as much Harry's family as the Royals are. Is he in touch with them? How do they get on with Meghan?
The Earl Spencer and his older children...with whom Harry was once close...have been markedly close mouthed ever since Harry met Meghan. I would LOVE to hear from Earl Spencer.
__________________
"Be who God intended you to be, and you will set the world on fire" St. Catherine of Siena

"The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice". Martin Luther King Jr. 1929-1968
  #178  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:27 PM
Sunnystar's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon, United States
Posts: 628
Or perhaps the Queen knew she was an old softie with her grandkids and told her private secretary to give her a good reason to not be available to see Harry after she initially agreed.

Or maybe Philip (who was rumored to be incandescent with Harry & Meghan's website stunt) told her "no, you don’t need to see them."

Heaven forbid someone agree to a meeting and then, upon a bit of reflection, decide that isn't the best course of action.
  #179  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:27 PM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Waterford, United States
Posts: 2,947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald View Post
Piers Morgan has left ITV's Good Morning Britain following a row over comments he made about Meghan.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-56334082

What a pleasant surprise!
__________________
"If you look for the bad in people expecting to find it, you surely will.”

Abraham Lincoln
  #180  
Old 03-09-2021, 07:30 PM
Alisa's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: , United States
Posts: 2,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post

Regarding Meghan's mental health crisis, they didn't promise to look into it; so maybe they already know what instance that was about. Based on Harry's comments it seems that they never told members of the royal family (hence the statement that they are saddened to learn of the extend of their challenges; if I remember it correctly a similar sentiment was expressed after the South-Africa interview); so that would be about a member of staff that might have even been asked to keep it private who may only have come forward with their version of the event (for example "she never referred to suicidal thoughts" but I recall her one time asking whether she could go abroad for some time to seek help dealing with the pressure she was under - and recommended she discuss the issue with X as it was outside of my scope of work).
.
Meghan said that she went to one of the "most senior palace officials'" and asked if she could go somewhere to get help and was denied because it was not a good look. Meghan also said that she went to the HR department and said plainly "I need help" and was denied. Such a response for all intents and purposes needs to be investigated- if what Meghan says turns out to be true then there needs to be alot of work done on revamping policies and procedures
for when a member of the royal family needs and is seeking help.
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex with Oprah II - Interview, March 7th-9th 2021 Jacknch The Electronic Domain 1196 03-09-2021 01:48 PM




Popular Tags
america archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian baptism british british royal family british royals camilla's family camilla parker bowles carolin china china chinese ming dynasty asia asian emperor royalty qing chinese clarence house commonwealth countries crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice duchess of sussex duke of sussex elizabeth ii family tree fashion and style genetics george vi gradenigo gustaf vi adolf harry and meghan hello! highgrove history hochberg house of windsor jack brooksbank japan japan history jewellery kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos książ castle liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers luxembourg monarchist movements monarchists mongolia pless politics prince harry queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry royalty of taiwan speech st edward suthida swedish queen taiwan thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:22 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×