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  #721  
Old 03-11-2021, 10:26 PM
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It is going to be very difficult for Harry to have genuine communication with his family.

The BRF will likely be guarded, given that Harry shares family conversation with the media and Meghan gathers and keeps evidence.

Gone are the days when they could naturally relax, express and trust in the family.
That is sad.

I don't think that Meghan even knows what she's missing..
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  #722  
Old 03-11-2021, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of the Jungle View Post
It is going to be very difficult for Harry to have genuine communication with his family.

The BRF will likely be guarded, given that Harry shares family conversation with the media and Meghan gathers and keeps evidence.

Gone are the days when they could naturally relax, express and trust in the family.
That is sad.

I don't think that Meghan even knows what she's missing..
Harry's family can like it or lump it. Harry and his wife have moved on.
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  #723  
Old 03-11-2021, 11:26 PM
Queen Ester's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rominet09 View Post

quite interesting
  #724  
Old 03-11-2021, 11:31 PM
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Harry didn?t say a word against his grandparents. He criticised the institution of monarchy and of his grandmother being ill- advised by her aides.

Harry wished to speak to the Queen, she agreed, an appointment was made and the next Harry heard (from her Private Secretary) was that she was booked up for a week. Even Camilla Tominey, no fan of the Sussexes, when speaking to the UK Breakfast programme stated that Private Secretaries etc had no business interfering in family meetings.

If Harry had been able to have family meetings with his grandmother and father, instead of being cut off and blocked from them there may not have been the repercussions that there have been.

If you are allowed no voice with your relatives, are told to carry on smiling sweetly no matter whether the Press are constantly on your back, are just told with a shrug ?Well, that?s just the way things are?, then maybe it is time to speak out. ?Never complain, never explain?, doesn?t cut it when you are feeling miserable and battered and bruised.

Diana also no doubt got the whole mantra, but felt she couldn?t stay silent any longer. What are you supposed to do as a royal when you don?t trust the system, (and remember Harry grew up in it,) the staff are constantly leaking to tabloids about you and your wife, the mother of your children, and there is no independent arbiter and no way of having your voice heard, just what are you supposed to do?

Carry on perhaps, feeling more and more hopeless and miserable each year, in a system you dislike and mistrust, never saying anything to anyone about how you feel? What a great way to live!
  #725  
Old 03-11-2021, 11:42 PM
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It has been interesting to see the evolution of the Sussexes' engagement with the media since their split from the Royal Family, which quickly escalated from wanting to engage with a diverse group of media on their terms to "we will throw a tantrum if organized media don't cover us how we want" that has ranged from a formal complaint (a formal complaint yet!) because one commentator said he didn't believe her story and a rebuke to a national broadcaster over the skin color of their broadcasting team that seems to have taken no account to the actual life experiences of those men.

(If you think the formal complaint was actually born out of concern for how other people's mental health would be affected by hearing a color commentator discuss how he doesn't believe one story in a string of easily disprovable.... half-truths, please contact me privately about the oceanfront property I am selling in Arizona. Alternatively, I would be pleased to hear about other times Meghan has bravely stepped in with formal complaints about the public's mental health being similarly affected when her own image wasn't on the line.)

My friends here on TRF will notice that all of these antics have taken place with the British press. Ours does not take kindly to such games.
  #726  
Old 03-11-2021, 11:47 PM
Estel's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
Harry's family can like it or lump it. Harry and his wife have moved on.

If they've moved on, why the interview? They said this will be the last time they would talk about the BRF, let's see if they stick to that first. LOL.
  #727  
Old 03-11-2021, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
Harry's family can like it or lump it. Harry and his wife have moved on.


Harry and Meghan have not moved on. If they had this interview, their friend talking to the media, and now the email release would never have happened.

They appear to be emotionally stuck in about the same place they were a year ago.
  #728  
Old 03-12-2021, 12:01 AM
HighGoalHighDreams's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
Harry's family can like it or lump it. Harry and his wife have moved on.
Until this moment, my bold proclamation that the Oprah interview would be "75% boring talk about the couple's charitable pursuits" was the most inaccurate take in these three threads.

Having the opportunity to launch their own charitable endeavors with quiet grace, the moved-on couple:
  • Arranged a tell-all interview of generational proportions (fair enough, depending on your perspective of why they did it), but during which they said a number of things several people (including several here, if you read the threads) caught on as essentially hinting at, well, to put it kindly, hints of "holding things over" the family

And now, having backed themselves into a corner by declaring that it would be their last word on the matter, in four days' time have:
  • Authorized a friend as a spokeswoman to comment further and offer rebuttals
  • Released confidential emails concerning the matters on which they 'had their last word' (see "holdings things over" above)
  • In both of the above actions, included a number of 'authorized' comments that many around the world have pointed out can only be taken as a sign of, well, that same "holding things over" people's heads

And the week is not yet over.

I regret to say that no part of them has moved on, and it seems they have no intention whatever of moving on.
  #729  
Old 03-12-2021, 12:31 AM
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You all really amaze me. You post as if you know Harry and Meghan personally when you do not know them at all but only as famous people. I posted why they have moved on put it was deleted.

You discuss Harry's assets like you know know what he can afford etc.
  #730  
Old 03-12-2021, 12:46 AM
moby's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
I'm sorry that I have to disagree with you

I'm an ethnic minority women and I dislike the idea that only certain ethnic groups can discuss about racism. It's simply exclusion and discrimination based on race. It's very patronising and condescending to suggest that only people from my ethnicity (but not those with European descent) can represent me. I am capable to form my own opinions and do not need special treatment on the basis of race.

I believe in best people for the job/role not based on box ticking quota exercise. And on the subject of diversity, may be we should focus on diversity of opinions not physical characteristics.

And this applies to men discussing women's issues or women discussing about men's issues. It should be about diversity of thoughts.
Agree with this 100%. Also on the same boat of being half of a biracial couple. There will always be awkward, even completely clueless relatives but it's absolutely exhausting to see every comment on race as an attack, or specifically a "racist" attack. You know the people around you very well, you know the context...if you know deep down the questions come from genuine curiosity because it's all so novel to them, why get offended when it can be a teachable moment instead? Maybe I'm naive and choose to think that these clueless in-laws/relatives are not at all racists and are not malicious or mean...just clueless.

An article in the Spectator sums it up well: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...s-skin-will-be
  #731  
Old 03-12-2021, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
Harry didn?t say a word against his grandparents. He criticised the institution of monarchy and of his grandmother being ill- advised by her aides.
You don't see this as speaking against his grandmother? I'm afraid I do.
  #732  
Old 03-12-2021, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moby View Post
Agree with this 100%. Also on the same boat of being half of a biracial couple. There will always be awkward, even completely clueless relatives but it's absolutely exhausting to see every comment on race as an attack, or specifically a "racist" attack. You know the people around you very well, you know the context...if you know deep down the questions come from genuine curiosity because it's all so novel to them, why get offended when it can be a teachable moment instead? Maybe I'm naive and choose to think that these clueless in-laws/relatives are not at all racists and are not malicious or mean...just clueless.

An article in the Spectator sums it up well: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...s-skin-will-be

I am sorry this is the 21st century. People don't get to use naivity as an excuse.

People need to stop making excuses for ignorance. Its not up to a minority to educate people. If it was really just stupidity and not racism that 'oh can a black woman have a black baby' then google it. Dont ask a question which anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows is going to cause issues.



Quote:
How do you know that none of the commentators are married to people of color? Also, race isn't just about Black and White, there are people of many nationalities in the UK.

I am Canadian does that make me a different race then you

Nationalities are not races. Perhaps get your terms straight.

And you're right, there are many races (not nationalities in the UK). Its a shame that all white men were chosen to comment on racism.

Quote:
I'm sorry that I have to disagree with you

I'm an ethnic minority women and I dislike the idea that only certain ethnic groups can discuss about racism. It's simply exclusion and discrimination based on race. It's very patronising and condescending to suggest that only people from my ethnicity (but not those with European descent) can represent me. I am capable to form my own opinions and do not need special treatment on the basis of race.

I believe in best people for the job/role not based on box ticking quota exercise. And on the subject of diversity, may be we should focus on diversity of opinions not physical characteristics.

And this applies to men discussing women's issues or women discussing about men's issues. It should be about diversity of thoughts.

Good for you, but you don't speak for all minorities.

That is one of the biggest issues in the US and with BLM. And in Canada as well not only with BLM but also indigenous rights. That caucasians are trying to 'explain racism' to minorities. That they are taking attention away from those who have experienced it and know what they are talking about.



Yes its important to involve everyone. Its important to involve men in women's issues as women need men's support. And the other way around. But the emphasis is on the word INVOLVE. Not have a pannel of white people, talking about minorities and not including any of representative of that minority in the talk.

I can see racism every day. And I can feel the pain of it when I see what my brother in law or my godchildren go through. But does that mean I can fully talk about the impact racism? No. Because I have the luxury of not experiencing it. Of watching it from a distance.

You say all minorities should have the right to talk not just black. I agree. But since when is being white in the UK a minority? That was the issue. Was there a racial minority speaking? Was there a woman? No.

It makes me sick this is the 21st century.


We say we champion minorities and ending racism. But when a minority speaks of the racism she experiences, we downplay it. We call it fake. We explain it away. Because its Meghan, and no one likes her.


Heck even people claiming she isn't 'black enough' to experience racism.


We talk about mental health. Royals have 'heads together campaigns' and we applaud their support for mental health. Talk about getting rid of the taboo of talking about mental health. But the second someone actually comes out and talks about being suicidal and fighting with mental health? She is lying, she is looking for attention, she is attacking the royal family.


And people wonder why people commit suicide instead of looking for help.
  #733  
Old 03-12-2021, 01:57 AM
moby's Avatar
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I am sorry this is the 21st century. People don't get to use naivity as an excuse.

People need to stop making excuses for ignorance. Its not up to a minority to educate people. If it was really just stupidity and not racism that 'oh can a black woman have a black baby' then google it. Dont ask a question which anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows is going to cause issues.
As I've said, context is everything. With the word salad provided by Meghan, who was not even in the room when the supposed racist comment was said and whose husband provided different information about when it was even said, I wonder why people just take it at face value.

It is up to people to educate each other, and no it is not providing excuse for ignorance but being completely pragmatic about people's limitations. This is all attitude though. Someone like Meghan and Harry were obviously choosing to look for faults that they can inflate, sadly they weren't even able to be on the same page about it lol.

As a liberal I find woke culture--in its sheer hypocrisy, rejection of dialogue and ironically railing against being silenced but having zero tolerance for those who speak with nuance and context--will erode liberalism. However, if there's anything I'd be grateful to Meghan and Harry for, it's the fact that I've seen more articles now discussing press freedom and the problems of cancel culture.
  #734  
Old 03-12-2021, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
If they've moved on, why the interview? They said this will be the last time they would talk about the BRF, let's see if they stick to that first. LOL.
For all of their talks of kindness, they have managed to cost two people their jobs, just for having a different opinion from H&M. They are now literally terrorizing the British press.
  #735  
Old 03-12-2021, 02:30 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Ann Arbor, United States
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Let me just say as a POC that some of the comments here towards other POC are pretty... condescending. You will never be in our shoes in terms of understanding what it's like to live as a POC in a white-dominant society, and having to winnow through ignorance vs prejudice vs racism (yes, different).

Even if you feel that you are cultured, or progressive, or self-aware, or "woke" or whatever you want to call it, you have zero right to tell me what I should or should not feel about a situation where it's questionable if racism actually occurred.

That being said:
I have no idea if the undescribed incident with the unidentified perpetrator is as bad as Meghan says. It could be. But it's second-hand from her account, and PERSONALLY, from all the inconsistencies with everything else that was said in that interview, I question whether or not a second-hand account of someone else's conversation can really be determined by someone as racist or not.

Let me repeat. It's really offensive when non-POC try to tell POC that we should just blindly defend any possible victim of racism. We *are in those shoes daily* and know it's not always so clear cut or right --- Smollett case being an example where everyone was raging for blood. Sometimes "woke" culture really disgusts me from its close collaboration with cancel culture.

Edit:
Let me just say that in 15 years of being on this board, I have only posted 25 times, because I generally just enjoy reading people's opinions and the articles they link, but that this trend I'm seeing in this and previous threads on The Duke & Duchess of Sussex has been bothering me a lot.
  #736  
Old 03-12-2021, 02:35 AM
AC21091968's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
I am sorry this is the 21st century. People don't get to use naivity as an excuse.

People need to stop making excuses for ignorance. Its not up to a minority to educate people. If it was really just stupidity and not racism that 'oh can a black woman have a black baby' then google it. Dont ask a question which anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows is going to cause issues.






I am Canadian does that make me a different race then you

Nationalities are not races. Perhaps get your terms straight.

And you're right, there are many races (not nationalities in the UK). Its a shame that all white men were chosen to comment on racism.




Good for you, but you don't speak for all minorities.

That is one of the biggest issues in the US and with BLM. And in Canada as well not only with BLM but also indigenous rights. That caucasians are trying to 'explain racism' to minorities. That they are taking attention away from those who have experienced it and know what they are talking about.



Yes its important to involve everyone. Its important to involve men in women's issues as women need men's support. And the other way around. But the emphasis is on the word INVOLVE. Not have a pannel of white people, talking about minorities and not including any of representative of that minority in the talk.

I can see racism every day. And I can feel the pain of it when I see what my brother in law or my godchildren go through. But does that mean I can fully talk about the impact racism? No. Because I have the luxury of not experiencing it. Of watching it from a distance.

You say all minorities should have the right to talk not just black. I agree. But since when is being white in the UK a minority? That was the issue. Was there a racial minority speaking? Was there a woman? No.

It makes me sick this is the 21st century.


We say we champion minorities and ending racism. But when a minority speaks of the racism she experiences, we downplay it. We call it fake. We explain it away. Because its Meghan, and no one likes her.


Heck even people claiming she isn't 'black enough' to experience racism.


We talk about mental health. Royals have 'heads together campaigns' and we applaud their support for mental health. Talk about getting rid of the taboo of talking about mental health. But the second someone actually comes out and talks about being suicidal and fighting with mental health? She is lying, she is looking for attention, she is attacking the royal family.


And people wonder why people commit suicide instead of looking for help.
I never claim that I speak for all ethnic minority people. It's also absurd to suggest that white people do not face racism at all, given what happened with the Rotherham/Telford grooming gang scandal. Does this mean only white people could talk about about racism? No, in fact there was a diverse panel on the Pledge discussing about this ongoing topic.


The reason why I'm sceptical of Meghan's claim of racism, because of lack of context & evidence and discrepancy between Harry & Meghan's recount. I believed in evidence and innocence until proven guilty. There has been cases of false allegations, where innocent lives have been ruined, whilst people believing all victims. Look at the social media and public support thrown at Jussie Smollett after the "allege assault" hate crime, before the police investigation. There is also the incident at Smith College.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/25/smith-...m-probe-finds/
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6236015683001

Don't get me wrong, racism should be called out and the perpetrator should be punished and held accountable. However, we need to look at the details, context and evidence before any judgements could be made. I don't think Meghan is lying and there might be some elements of truth to the racism incident. However, Oprah should have pressed on Harry and Meghan in getting every single details and evidence like what Andrew Neil would have done to his guests.
  #737  
Old 03-12-2021, 02:48 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by American Observer7 View Post
You all really amaze me. You post as if you know Harry and Meghan personally when you do not know them at all but only as famous people. I posted why they have moved on put it was deleted.

You discuss Harry's assets like you know know what he can afford etc.
With all due respect, the same could be said to you.
  #738  
Old 03-12-2021, 02:59 AM
Estel's Avatar
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As a person of colour myself, I think one should not dictate as to who can or cannot speak about racism. I feel that a lot of white people can understand racism/colourism better than people of my own colour. For instance, speculating about a child's colour is a done deal here in India. Sometimes, it's just a harmless speculation, sometimes it's rather offensive. A lot of people here do not understand how offensive or insensitive it can be than say, a white person. Dictating who should and shouldn't speak about racism is just a suppressive and a divisive rhetoric.

N who says white people do not experience racism? Big LOL! A lot of foreign women are actually scared to come to India coz men here think white women are "loose" and "available." They're called "firangs" here. N another poster has spoken about grooming gangs already, so I don't even want to get into how racist the whole thing was, and how those poor girls were sacrificed at the altar of diversity.
  #739  
Old 03-12-2021, 03:29 AM
Estel's Avatar
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This is interesting:
https://mol.im/a/9354003
  #740  
Old 03-12-2021, 03:43 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
This is interesting:
https://mol.im/a/9354003
I think I read at the time that it was Charles suggested them. He has a wide range of knowledge, interests and friendships from all over the world. It's incredibly unfair that he's one of the ones that people are automatically assuming "it's him!".

Not to mention he was publicly very welcoming to Meghan and her mother when her father let her down.
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