The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #321  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:00 AM
Estel's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Somewhere, India
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Itís all vague- just like everything from the Sussexes. So easy to just toss out there.

Meghanís friend- now there is a good source for accurate, unbiased information. Iíll be sure to take her word for things based on nothing.
No no, I understand why they would send out a message that says we fear nothing. That'd hardly be the reality, however. It's all a front. If it was me and even if I were being truthful, an investigation would scare the living daylights out of me because so much of it is a matter of perception. N generally, an employee is almost always the bullied one. They get the sympathy votes.

Regardless, the fact of the matter is that the mail about Meghan's worrying behaviour with the staff was sent way, way before the interview.
__________________

  #322  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:11 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
N generally, an employee is almost always the bullied one.
Yes, I've always wondered what we're supposed to believe the staff might have done to Meghan other than tell her "No." Yell at her? I doubt it. Call her names? Again, doubt it - at least to her face. Allow little flickers of annoyance to occasionally peek out from beneath their veneer of politeness and civility? Probably, but that's what happens when your staff hates you.
__________________

  #323  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:16 AM
Estel's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Somewhere, India
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Yes, I've always wondered what we're supposed to believe the staff might have done to Meghan other than tell her "No." Yell at her? I doubt it. Call her names? Again, doubt it - at least to her face. Allow little flickers of annoyance to occasionally peek out from beneath their veneer of politeness and civility? Probably, but that's what happens when your staff hates you.
The Palace could be accused of weaponzing their staff against H & M. I have come across accusations of them speaking through her father. N besides all that, it's a private investigation. A lot of people won't buy it.
  #324  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:19 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Piers Morgan's always offending someone or other. He's been doing it for 25 years - he wrote a newspaper headline referencing the Second World War before the England v Germany Euro 1996 semi-final. He's one of those TV personalities whose thing/public persona is to be controversial.
I remember Ian Hislop on HIGNY said Piers got a photographer to follow his family around for a couple of days, including hiding in the bushes until Ian went over there and just asked what shot they needed to go away and he gave it to them.

Next day there was a headline: Ian Grins Whilst Children Die

He does it to everyone and has never gone away for long because he generates ratings or clicks. There are already rumours of a couple of new jobs.
  #325  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:19 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 2,134
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex with Oprah III - Post-Interview, March 9th 2021 -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
No no, I understand why they would send out a message that says we fear nothing. That'd hardly be the reality, however. It's all a front. If it was me and even if I were being truthful, an investigation would scare the living daylights out of me because so much of it is a matter of perception. N generally, an employee is almost always the bullied one. They get the sympathy votes.



Regardless, the fact of the matter is that the mail about Meghan's worrying behaviour with the staff was sent way, way before the interview.

Agreed.

Iím honestly just annoyed. Iím tired of reading- ďMeghan says....Ē as if that proves anything. Sheís thrown a lot of nasty allegations and all there is, is her word. Note: she said she has evidence. She didnít produce any. So....maybe so/maybe not. The palace wonít publicly ask for it.

She and Harry had some clear agendas with that interview- and that colors everything they said in my mind. That and so many posters are trying to make what they said make sense....and canít.

I agree- the employee usually is the bullied one. Itís generally difficult to bully your boss and stay employed.
  #326  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:27 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erin9 View Post
Agreed.

I’m honestly just annoyed. I’m tired of reading- “Meghan says....” as if that proves anything.

She and Harry had some clear agendas with that interview- and that colors everything they said in my mind. That and so many posters are trying to make what they said make sense....and can’t.

I agree- the employee usually is the bullied one. It’s generally difficult to bully your boss and stay employed.
I really don't know why her words are being taken at 100% face value by so many where there are provable exaggerations, out of context issues and down right untruths that are googleable by news organisations. Things like the title issue for example and many aren't bringing up the fact that Harry and Meghan had wildly different takes on the dark skin claim. It's not about believing the victim, it's about fact checking.

And yet anyone who thinks that they can have been extremely unhappy and right to leave if they felt that way and still have bullied staff is obviously wrong because the staff are simply palace stooges.

I do believe they felt potentially suicidal and trapped and royal life did not suit her but there's a difference between that and most of what they came out with.

How many 36 year olds get sympathy when they complain that their dad cut them off? Especially when they literally just bought a mansion.

I like the phrase a poster used yesterday "Meghan only said one sentence out of a whole paragraph" when talking about everything.
  #327  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:29 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Vienna, Austria
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
Well I guess through the investigation they will learn this or not. I think it wouldn't be wise to claim you have things you don't, especially when you know after such an public interview that people will want to see it.

So I don't doubt it to be honest. You learn in business to always have a paper trail. All that said, there are two investigations going on. No matter what the truth will come out eventually.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood it from watching the This Morning interview, Meghan's friend Janina said that there are e-mails and texts that prove that Meghan told her what was happening at the palace at the time. While those would be interesting to see, it's not e-mails and texts between Meghan/ Harry & the BRF or staff that prove allegations of racism or help denied while suicidal.
  #328  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:29 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
The Palace could be accused of weaponzing their staff against H & M. I have come across accusations of them speaking through her father. N besides all that, it's a private investigation. A lot of people won't buy it.
Really? Good God. If I were going to use someone as a mouthpiece, I wouldn't pick Thomas Markle!
  #329  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:40 AM
ACO ACO is offline
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: New York, United States
Posts: 3,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess_Eleanor View Post
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understood it from watching the This Morning interview, Meghan's friend Janina said that there are e-mails and texts that prove that Meghan told her what was happening at the palace at the time. While those would be interesting to see, it's not e-mails and texts between Meghan/ Harry & the BRF or staff that prove allegations of racism or help denied while suicidal.
I think she was specifically referencing Meghan and Harry asking for help and the "gross misconduct" with a former aid.

Honestly at this point it doesn't matter who you believe -- Sussexes or Royals. I personally don't think any side is all right or wrong. Things will be investigated. Any proof will be presented and whatever conclusion comes from it will be dealt with.

That is where we are now.
  #330  
Old 03-10-2021, 09:48 AM
Muhler's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Eastern Jutland, Denmark
Posts: 14,567
What interest me most now is: What will H&M do?

Basically the ball is in their half of the field, so what happens now is up to them.

The BRF has responded by standing their ground and avoiding escalating the situation. So any further action regarding the BRF will be up to H&M.

So, will they press for a formal apology from the BRF, in regards to the way they feel they, and perhaps in particular Meghan has been treated by the BRF?
(Whether it's true or not is beside the point, it's what H&M will do.)

Do they expect a thorough and pretty much public review/overhaul of the BRF and in particular the court, including the senior courtiers? So that the "firm" is getting more aligned with what H&M see as the modern and best way to go?

Do they expect their current status to renegotiated? I.e. they will remain royals, but working solo, primarily in USA and with their own agenda. Just as they initially proposed.

Do they expect the British press, the tabloids in particular, to take a good look at itself and the unfair treatment (at least according to H&M) they got from the press. I.e. this interview will become a trigger for a major review of the UK press and perhaps to some extent segments of the British public.

Will they be satisfied with the stir, this interview has caused and focus on their future? (Predominantly in USA.)
If that's the case, what do they hope to do? Almost regardless any public appearance on talkshows and interview will for a foreseeable future touch their break from the BRF and the Oprah interview, because that's what makes them interesting.
Do they hope to become a kind of global champions on mental health issues, racism, and tabloid ethics?

No matter how I look at what path they may take, I see a lot of holes they can fall into!
  #331  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:07 AM
Estel's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Somewhere, India
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
Really? Good God. If I were going to use someone as a mouthpiece, I wouldn't pick Thomas Markle!
I know, the things that you learn.

Honestly, I find it hard to believe anything they say. As for seeking the staff's help, when did they ever listen to any piece of advice? This Meghan was silenced is quite frankly BS. The Palace allowed her to go forward with her highly political Vogue magazine, and political messages. They were okay with her NOT attending a state dinner with the President of the United States! Ever think Kate can get away with all this? I highly doubt it. She did what she wanted, and the Palace did not do anything to stop her. I highly doubt they would deny her therapy. N even if HR said they couldn't help her, they were right. N anyway, are we to believe that Harry was really so hapless? All the Diana similarities, and not learning anything. Don't agree. They are two vastly different people and situations.

My personal belief is that they did not want to play second fiddle to William and Kate. Fair enough. Just say it, and get out.

N I don't believe that Harry always wanted out, and he finally had the reason to leave. Harry left military to do more of royal duties, and he himself admitted he did not know he was trapped before he met Meghan.
  #332  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:15 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Philadelphia, United States
Posts: 5,366
It was quite a contradictory interview.
First they said they didn't wish to leave but only to take a step back and become financially independent as others have done.

Then they were shocked to lose their paid security due to change in status.
Their status became the same as those others.
So why were they surprised??
  #333  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:19 AM
Nobility
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: N/A, Bulgaria
Posts: 439
I find it rather meaningful that they didn't end this sad story of their victimhood with announcing that they no longer wish to be known as Their HRH the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. For two people wanting freedom and even nobly wishing to free others, namely Harry's father and brother (who didn't authorize him to speak on their behalf and probably won't return the favour by speaking on how HE felt on his), they are clinging to the symbol of their martyrdom quite resolutely.
  #334  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:23 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,736
This is a great discussion and I appreciate everyoneís point of view and contributions, especially those who have revealed their personal experience with either mental health issues or racism. Itís been very enlightening. At the same time, we are evaluating Harry and Meghanís allegations based on our personal experiences and our prejudices based on how we personally feel about Harry and Meghan.

Anything is possible, but in my opinion, some things are more likely than others:

Itís possible that Meghan became aware of the palaceís employee assistance programs (ours is all over our internal website), contacted HR and was told she was not eligible.

I do not think that it plausible that a HR rep, who probably doesnít deal with members of the royal family often, coldly told Meghan that she wasnít eligible for help if Meghan explained that she was seriously depressed and considering suicide.

I concede that itís possible that a senior aide was concerned about how Meghan checking into a facility may have looked bad for the ďinstitution.Ē

I do not think it is possible that this senior aide would not have tried to help her, because the aide would have also been aware of:
- What happened to Diana
- Harryís background
- The Heads Together Campaign,
- How it would look for the institution if Meghan had harmed herself.

Moreover, palace aides are human beings and very few of us are so cold that we are indifferent to someone in distress asking for help.

I also do not think it is likely that she didnít consider contacting her physicians for help if she needed it. In my experience, pregnant women develop a strong, emotional bond with their doctors and there is a lot of trust and intimacy. I donít know about the UK, but in the US, medical professional regularly screen patients for depression.. I canít believe that she was asking an HR representative about getting help but either didnít lied to or didnít contact her own physician to discuss serious depression.

All of this begs the question I have repeatedly asked: where her husband was during all this? Some people have suggested that Harry himself may have been so depressed that he could not help his wife. I canít remember who but one poster shared that there were times that Harry looked tired and unhappy during the South African tour. Again, possible but it is not evidence that he was so depressed that he didnít notice her distress or figure out how to help her.

He knew that the tabloid stories were upsetting her (I would have just banned tabloids from the house) so was aware that she needed support. Based on my experience, it is inconceivable that a 30+ year old man who was able to carry out his normal routine, was so depressed that he couldnít figure out how to get help for his pregnant wife. Moreover, if she was too embarrassed or ashamed to tell him, that says a lot about their relationship Ė and itís not positive.

In my opinion, her claims that the ďinstitutionĒ denied her help are not plausible. I am sorry for those offended but I think both she and Harry dishonestly tried to align her story with Dianaís Ė which is manipulative. Their vindictiveness hurt the reputations of the royal family and palace staff who probably tried very hard to make her comfortable and help her adjust to her new role.
  #335  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:25 AM
soapstar's Avatar
Super Moderator
Picture of the Week Coordinator
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hermosa Beach, United States
Posts: 5,919
Janina says Meghan authorized her to speak. Interesting.

Also Janina says the whole family knew, which contradicts what Harry said. He said he was too ashamed to tell his family.
__________________
  #336  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:27 AM
Estel's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Somewhere, India
Posts: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
This is a great discussion and I appreciate everyoneís point of view and contributions, especially those who have revealed their personal experience with either mental health issues or racism. Itís been very enlightening. At the same time, we are evaluating Harry and Meghanís allegations based on our personal experiences and our prejudices based on how we personally feel about Harry and Meghan.

Anything is possible, but in my opinion, some things are more likely than others:

Itís possible that Meghan became aware of the palaceís employee assistance programs (ours is all over our internal website), contacted HR and was told she was not eligible.

I do not think that it plausible that a HR rep, who probably doesnít deal with members of the royal family often, coldly told Meghan that she wasnít eligible for help if Meghan explained that she was seriously depressed and considering suicide.

I concede that itís possible that a senior aide was concerned about how Meghan checking into a facility may have looked bad for the ďinstitution.Ē

I do not think it is possible that this senior aide would not have tried to help her, because the aide would have also been aware of:
- What happened to Diana
- Harryís background
- The Heads Together Campaign,
- How it would look for the institution if Meghan had harmed herself.

Moreover, palace aides are human beings and very few of us are so cold that we are indifferent to someone in distress asking for help.

I also do not think it is likely that she didnít consider contacting her physicians for help if she needed it. In my experience, pregnant women develop a strong, emotional bond with their doctors and there is a lot of trust and intimacy. I donít know about the UK, but in the US, medical professional regularly screen patients for depression.. I canít believe that she was asking an HR representative about getting help but either didnít lied to or didnít contact her own physician to discuss serious depression.

All of this begs the question I have repeatedly asked: where her husband was during all this? Some people have suggested that Harry himself may have been so depressed that he could not help his wife. I canít remember who but one poster shared that there were times that Harry looked tired and unhappy during the South African tour. Again, possible but it is not evidence that he was so depressed that he didnít notice her distress or figure out how to help her.

He knew that the tabloid stories were upsetting her (I would have just banned tabloids from the house) so was aware that she needed support. Based on my experience, it is inconceivable that a 30+ year old man who was able to carry out his normal routine, was so depressed that he couldnít figure out how to get help for his pregnant wife. Moreover, if she was too embarrassed or ashamed to tell him, that says a lot about their relationship Ė and itís not positive.

In my opinion, her claims that the ďinstitutionĒ denied her help are not plausible. I am sorry for those offended but I think both she and Harry dishonestly tried to align her story with Dianaís Ė which is manipulative. Their vindictiveness hurt the reputations of the royal family and palace staff who probably tried very hard to make her comfortable and help her adjust to her new role.
I agree. She said she was suicidal. If not anything else, they would've considered how bad it would have looked for the Royal Family. The Palace aides might not be that heartless nor that stupid.
N by their own admission, they did not approach family members.
  #337  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:32 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 2,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I really don't know why her words are being taken at 100% face value by so many where there are provable exaggerations, out of context issues and down right untruths that are googleable by news organisations. Things like the title issue for example and many aren't bringing up the fact that Harry and Meghan had wildly different takes on the dark skin claim. It's not about believing the victim, it's about fact checking.

And yet anyone who thinks that they can have been extremely unhappy and right to leave if they felt that way and still have bullied staff is obviously wrong because the staff are simply palace stooges.

I do believe they felt potentially suicidal and trapped and royal life did not suit her but there's a difference between that and most of what they came out with.

How many 36 year olds get sympathy when they complain that their dad cut them off? Especially when they literally just bought a mansion.

I like the phrase a poster used yesterday "Meghan only said one sentence out of a whole paragraph" when talking about everything.


Very well stated. The utter lack of fact checking is a real problem for me. Thatís part of why they picked Oprah. They didnít have to produce anything. We already know theyíve said things that donít fit, which calls into question all of it to me. Maybe, maybe not.

That phrase is awesome. ďMeghan only said one sentence out of a whole paragraph.Ē Indeed.

I find it utterly laughable that theyíre complaining about daddy cutting them off financially from their multi million dollar mansion. Yeah- tough life these 2 lead. Please. They got what they wanted. Financial independence means just that. Talk about being entitled and out of touch with the rest of the world.

I donít know about the suicidal part. The only person who knows that is Meghan. I certainly believe she was unhappy and unsuited for being a working royal. I can believe she was depressed. Especially being pregnant and all that comes with that. Perfectly plausible.

But- all I can say is that Meghan saying she was suicidal takes things to a whole new level when she complains publicly. Talk about headline generating. Maybe she was, but I canít ignore the fact that putting suicide out there makes her story so much more damaging. Thatís way beyond some depression.

And that she supposedly didnít get the help she wanted more troubling. And given part of the point of this interview was sympathy and throwing the BRF under the bus, it sure was effective. Suicidal thoughts can never be proven or disproven. Just the story around it possibly.

And I believe a poster said itís not unheard of for people to claim suicidal thoughts/ depression through email for the sole purpose of suing later. Iím not saying that happened. If a paper trail even actually exists. Weíve yet to see it.

The Sussexes threw a lot of damaging stuff out there that was vague, contradictory, just plain wrong, and without producing back up. Maybe they have back up, but itís easy to say if they know BP wonít publicly ask for it either.
  #338  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:36 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Peterborough, Canada
Posts: 174
In my opinion, Meghan was targeted by the tabloids and attacked in part because she was biracial, and in part because she was divorced and American--an "outsider".


There were factual inaccuracies or misrepresentations in the interview. Whether these were due to naeivity, lack of knowledge, lack of openness to learning the nuances of a new situation, or arrogance I cannot say.



Other than her mother and loyal friends, Meghan appears to have a history of leaving people behind or cutting people off. Of course I don't know the details and I cannot be sure. (None of us here can be sure about any part of this story). I don't know why this is.



Meghan and Harry have created drama where none was needed. They could have settled all of this by facing it head-on. I don't know about you, but if I felt genuinely suicidal and occupied a privileged position as wife of Prince Harry, I would get help through my own means.



People who display behaviour like Meghan and Harry display might be showing signs of early childhood trauma, or they may have a problematic pattern of coping , or both.



Public figures who participate in tell-all (sort of) interviews are generally not seeking to shed light on systemic problems (e.g. racism), but seeking to gain attention for themselves. It's useful to ask ourselves, what is to be gained (I don't mean cash)? Who benefits from the drama?



People like H and M who emphasize their own perceived helplessness and their perceptions of being wronged are playing psychological games, consciously or unconsciously.



The fact that two separate communications emphasize that "Harry and Meghan are much loved members of the family" is very telling; BRF communications do not usually contain such personal messages. Parents who send messages like this are sometimes taking the opportunity to convey a message in the only forum left to them, a public one; they want the "child/children" to know that they love them, even though the "child/children" are currently rejecting them. (I have to say that in the case of H and M, the Queen likely feels some responsibility to let the public know that the "children" haven't been rejected. It could be spin, but it has a personal ring and I don't think so).



I do not think Meghan is a bad person. I think people like Meghan and Harry are troubled people.



Systemic issues need to be corrected, but not this way.



I am going to try to refrain from further comments.
  #339  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:39 AM
Estel's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Somewhere, India
Posts: 140
The only good thing that I can see coming out of this is that the Royal Family seem more united than they have been in the recent years. It is good for the future of the monarchy, and especially for William who seems to be enjoying a rather close relationship with his dad. On the other hand, Meghan and Harry can live their own lives away from the family.
  #340  
Old 03-10-2021, 10:47 AM
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Somewhere, United States
Posts: 2,134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moran View Post
I find it rather meaningful that they didn't end this sad story of their victimhood with announcing that they no longer wish to be known as Their HRH the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. For two people wanting freedom and even nobly wishing to free others, namely Harry's father and brother (who didn't authorize him to speak on their behalf and probably won't return the favour by speaking on how HE felt on his), they are clinging to the symbol of their martyrdom quite resolutely.


Good point. For two people who seem to hate the monarchy so much- interesting how that didnít come up. William and Charles are trapped. The family and institution failed them- but they have clung to those titles.

These are the same 2 people who were very noticeably bitter about titles last year per their website and statements-, Sussexroyal, when/how titles and styles can be used, not to mention Archie per this interview.

These 2 are VERY contradictory.
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Duke & Duchess of Sussex with Oprah II - Interview, March 7th-9th 2021 Jacknch The Electronic Domain 1196 03-09-2021 01:48 PM




Popular Tags
america american archie mountbatten-windsor asia asian baptism biography british british royal family british royals camilla's family camilla parker bowles carolin china chinese clarence house commonwealth countries crown jewels customs daisy doge of venice duchess of sussex duke of sussex elizabeth ii family life family tree fashion and style genetics george vi gradenigo gustaf vi adolf harry and meghan hello! history hochberg house of windsor jack brooksbank japan japan history jewellery kensington palace king edward vii king juan carlos książ castle liechtenstein lili mountbatten-windsor line of succession list of rulers luxembourg monarchist movements monarchists plantinum jubilee politics portugal prince harry queen consort queen elizabeth ii queen victoria royal ancestry spanish royal family speech st edward swedish queen taiwan thai royal family tradition unfinished portrait united states united states of america welsh


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:54 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021
Jelsoft Enterprises
×