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  #601  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:53 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think including a residency requirement would be awkward, because it'd look like it was directed at Archie. None of this mess is his fault. He's just an innocent little kid who's going to grow up knowing that his parents had a very public falling out with his maternal grandfather and then slagged his paternal family off on the world's most-watched TV talk show. Which is rather a shame.
That is very true, yes. He's the only one in this whole mess we can guarantee is 100% innocent. It's going to be interesting to watch how he and his sister grow up under the shadow of what has now happened. I hope it won't affect them too much.
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  #602  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Boris Johnson is holding a press conference at 4pm, because this is the day of the first stage of relaxing restrictions - schools have reopened, and people are now able to meet a friend outdoors. I can't imagine he's very pleased that all this is happening at the same time, but reporters are bound to bring it up and he's then going to be in a difficult position - I assume he'll respond with something along the lines of "Racism is unacceptable". The Archbishop of Canterbury hasn't said anything, and I doubt he will.


I think including a residency requirement would be awkward, because it'd look like it was directed at Archie. None of this mess is his fault. He's just an innocent little kid who's going to grow up knowing that his parents had a very public falling out with his maternal grandfather and then slagged his paternal family off on the world's most-watched TV talk show. Which is rather a shame.
Well history rhymes. He may well grow up knowing he had no relationship with either side of his family...barring the grandmother and may as an adult intuit what this means.
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  #603  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:53 AM
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Wow! Simply wow!

Okay, three things:

A) Let me start out with the premise that what was said in the interview (and I now have to see it, when I find the time) is correct, then the BRF has been exposed as deeply dysfunctional, cold, unsupportive, hopelessly old-fashioned, indifferent and hardcore racists - not merely having prejudices but genuine deep down racist and as such hypocritical.
If that can be backed up with anything substantial, then it will be many years before the BRF will recover.

B) The other extreme: That what was said were falsehoods and deliberate distortions.
In which case H&M are exposed as unhinged, delusional, perhaps even having mental issues but also being vindictive with a ruthless and cruel streak, since Harry in particular should know how it will hurt his family, especially his grandmother.
It would also mean a severed connection between Harry and his family. Their relationship will never be the same and it will be doubtful whether he will ever be truly forgiven.
For Meghan severing ties with family is not that big a deal. She's been through it before and in her experience your family are not your allies.

C) The middle ground. That this is based on misunderstandings and misconceptions that have been blown totally out of proportion, combined with a refusal to listen and to try and see things from another perspective.
In short: Both sides are dug down in deep trenches.
In which case I suspect Harry in particular for being mentally unbalanced. In that he percieve any expression of concern, and advise he doesn't agree with and any criticism to malice. With a tendency to misinterpret what is said as racism. I.e. he has gone into an extreme protective mode of Meghan.

That Meghan should have suffered from a kind of depression is something I find very plausible. In fact I would be surprised if she didn't experience some kind of blues, especially considering the short transition time, and the very short time she had to prepare not only for a new marriage, but a completely new life in full public glare.
Whether she was indeed suicidal or it was merely the thought of suicide that crossed her mind is of course debatable.

Now what?
Considering the direct accusations of racism I think the BRF has to respond.
It's about the worse accusation a royal family can experience, not least in Britain where things tend to be very politically correct.
Silence simply will not do.
The BRF has to in no uncertain terms to flatly refuse these accusations. Otherwise: There is no smoke without fire...

Harry may be extremely protective of his wife. I wonder if it has dawned on him that William may also be very protective of his wife? If one of my sisters pointed a finger at my wife, in public, and it was groundless, or worse: A lie, I would go totally ballistic! It would be very difficult for me to forgive that.

No matter what happens, I believe H&M have burned all bridges in regard to the public in Britain. This is a definitive break with Britain. Whether it is also a break with countries like Canada, New Zealand and Australia, is something others can judge much better than me.
The losers in this story, even now, are H&M. They have the floor right now. But a considerable number of the audience are walking out right now and they will become less and less interesting over the years. They can also forget any association with other royal families, even if what they say is true. It's hard politics, even if there were no personal connections with the BRF to consider.

If, and this is the worst case scenario, QEII and/or Prince Phillip suffer a stroke or even die before summer, H&M will be blamed. That's inevitable.

Ironically there is one winner in this: Andrew.
Unless he was the "racist" he can quietly lean back and smile: No one are talking about me.
  #604  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:55 AM
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Gotta throw my two cents in because this thread seems heavily on the BRF's side, but always knew the environment the BRF live in is extremely toxic and this confirms my thoughts.

If some people here really think this is gonna blow over in a week, you're in for a ride. This is not something people are going to forget. It's gonna take Philip dying to make this go away.
  #605  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:57 AM
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A couple of thoughts on the relationships between Harry and his family.

The close relationship with The Queen is very in keeping with what we have 'known' about her over the years. She has always seemed to value keeping relationships with members of her family in tact over choosing sides. Further, no matter how you look at it, she does not have many years left on this earth compared to the long and wonderful years behind her, and is choosing not to spend them estranged from her grandson, his wife, and her great-grandson.

But it is no surprise that Charles and William feel differently. Their entire lives, and those of their immediate families, need to be re-structured due to Harry's decision. There are echoes of how most of the family felt about David and Wallis- so much resentment, we are told, came from the feeling that the rest of the family spent the rest of their own lives bearing the burden of the couple's decisions. I am sure people will respond and say that the rest of the family should respect the Sussexes' needing to make the best decision for their own family, and I do not dispute that, but I think what Harry said about his relationship with his father and brother bear out what I have said here-- that there is quite a bit of resentment about the implications of the couple's decision for other family members.
  #606  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BriarRose View Post
Regarding the allegation that a family member made a comment about what "color" their children's skin would be:

I believe the comment was made.

My mother is biracial (half Chinese, half Welsh/English) and I strongly resemble her, and when I married a white man, both my mother and mother-in-law openly speculated "how much" of my maternal ancestry would "come out" in our kids.

I don't say this to justify anything, but to explain that I believe it because I think many people think it's a very acceptable topic to discuss. I don't think people are aware of how hurtful it is. The first question my mom had when I called with each of my babies being born was "What color hair? What do the eyes look like?" (I will say my mother-in-law showed more restraint.)
No one knows the content of the conversation. Sometimes people wonder how biracial kids turn out but they make it seem more negative. But it could have been just a "I wonder how the kids will look!" "Do we think Archie will be pale or darker tone" "What color will his hair be".
  #607  
Old 03-08-2021, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
https://twitter.com/chrisshipitv/sta...99805410435086

"Meghan was claiming that the Palace was actively trying to change the rules for when Archie becomes a grandson of the Monarch (ie when Charles is King)."
The current rules are institutionally sexist (only because he is a man will Harry have the privilege to pass his princely title on to his children when Charles is king) and outdated in light of gender equality in the succession since 2015, so that is welcome news if it is true.
  #608  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:00 AM
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They implied they were worried about Archie being too dark. That is not the same as wondering who the kid will take after more.
  #609  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:01 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Harry - I don't want history to repeat itself

Diana - Did an interview and regretted it

History will repeat itself. I bet overtime he will regret this interview and even more so when his Grandmother has passed on. Also if Harry/Meghan ever divorce (I think they will one day) it will be very interesting to see if he comes back. At this point, I am not sure what would happen if they divorced.
  #610  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:02 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The current rules are institutionally sexist (only because he is a man will Harry have the privilege to pass his princely title on to his children when Charles is king) and outdated in light of gender equality in the succession since 2015, so that is welcome news if it is true.
That's a good point, yes. And it was probably part of Charles' plan to have a more streamlined monarchy - keep the HRH only for those in the most senior line, remove it from cadet lines.
  #611  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
CBS has put out a few new clips.

https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/s...18005158191111

"Rude and racist are not the same thing."
Can't believe she brought up "waitie Catie" William will never forgive him
  #612  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:03 AM
Aristocracy
 
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What a mess! You've already said everything, but here are some of my thoughts:


1. Lack of context and half-truths. I'd love the interview done by someone familiar with RF traditions, law,Where and general way of doing things.
2. "They" - If you are brave enough to accuse someone tell us their name and exactly what they said/done. But then, of course, "they" would be able to answer.
3. Where is Meghan's family in all this? Hers biggest haters? I'm looking at you Oprah.
4. I'm disappointed with Meghan. From what I've read about her, I imagined that before she met the RF she already read eveythig about them, was familiar with most customs, and already started to learn Welsh . I'm shocked how much she didn't care.
5. The curtsying thing - hasn't she watched Princess diaries? Or any other movie of that sort? Curtsying and number of forks is a first thing that comes to mind when you think "royal".
6. A bit nitpicking - the hand-squeezing photo. Girl, he's just holding your hand, I don't see any pointy knuckles on a verge of breaking the skin.


All in all I thought they have more class, tact and brains. However, the interview was done perfectly to support Meghan's narrative.
  #613  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
Wow! Simply wow!

...

Now what?
Considering the direct accusations of racism I think the BRF has to respond.
It's about the worse accusation a royal family can experience, not least in Britain where things tend to be very politically correct.
I have to disagree with you on one point, Muhler. Britain is not a politically correct place. Nor is the US. I'm not sure if one exists, but Meghan would not have encountered the issues with racism she did if it were considered less acceptable.

Well, two. I'm not sure what the BRF can say, or who or how is meant to respond. Will statements from the Palace cut it? And is that really a good idea?
  #614  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:07 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Gotta throw my two cents in because this thread seems heavily on the BRF's side, but always knew the environment the BRF live in is extremely toxic and this confirms my thoughts.

If some people here really think this is gonna blow over in a week, you're in for a ride. This is not something people are going to forget. It's gonna take Philip dying to make this go away.
I hope that people will see through this for what it is. An ugly airing of dirty laundry and innuendo in the most sensationalist way. The toxic person here is Meghan - as seen from her treatment of her family, former husband and current in-laws. Harry will be the next victim when this doesn't work out as Meghan desires.
  #615  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:07 AM
Muhler's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
They implied they were worried about Archie being too dark. That is not the same as wondering who the kid will take after more.
In all fairness, (if true) that could be attributed to concerns about the child's safety. A dark skinned member of the DRF would undeniably run a greater risk of being singled out by extremists.
  #616  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:09 AM
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One more thought after watching some coverage about this interview in the British media.

Meghan said that she had this talk, about how Archie will not be getting a royal title, will not be getting a security and so on... And of course it was twisted into "because he's mixed race/because he's their son", but what if it was BRF trying to avoid a similar drama as was with Andrew, Beatrice and Eugenie?

It was never a secret Prince Andrew wanted his daughters to be treated as senior royals, same as William and Harry. He wanted titles. He wanted royal protection officers. He wanted lavish weddings. Maybe someone within the BRF or the offices thought that they'll avoid all of that drama by stating from the get go: do not expect your child to have all of that. That is reserved for the children of the heir, not your child. It might not have been anything personal towards Archie or the Sussexes, just the plans for the monarchy in the future. But the Sussexes of course took it personally and decided that it was offensive to them and their child.
  #617  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher View Post
Harry - I don't want history to repeat itself

Diana - Did an interview and regretted it

History will repeat itself. I bet overtime he will regret this interview and even more so when his Grandmother has passed on. Also if Harry/Meghan ever divorce (I think they will one day) it will be very interesting to see if he comes back. At this point, I am not sure what would happen if they divorced.
Eventually, I think Harry will realize what he has done and it will be too late. It really will be very late.
  #618  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:10 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

Ironically there is one winner in this: Andrew.
Unless he was the "racist" he can quietly lean back and smile: No one are talking about me.

I guess the Palace would be relieved if the comment came from Andrew as he is the perfect "fall guy" now.

Having said that, we are talking about an anonymous allegation that Meghan heard from Harry and for which Harry didn't provide any context. Drawing any conclusion from that allegation would be reckless IMHO given the lack of detail and, especially, context. Even Harry's and Meghan's account of the timing didn't match in this case.


Changing subjects, I found the CBC news article on why Canada would not pay for H&M's security indefinitely. I think it sheds some light on Harry's allegations about security.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/har...nada-1.5478022


Quote:
Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
Gotta throw my two cents in because this thread seems heavily on the BRF's side, but always knew the environment the BRF live in is extremely toxic and this confirms my thoughts.
.

Is it ? I don't live with them, so I couldn't possibly tell,but, at least in public, what I see is Charles and Camilla, William and Kate, Edward and Sophie, Beatrice and Edo, Eugenie and Jack, Anne and Tim, Mike and Zara, all happily married, and, when it applies, with happy children/families.


Harry and Meghan, on the other hand, clearly went through personal mental health issues; I hope they are still getting help in California.
  #619  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post

If, and this is the worst case scenario, QEII and/or Prince Phillip suffer a stroke or even die before summer, H&M will be blamed. That's inevitable.
I had this thought as well. And I can't help but wonder if we're thinking it how could Harry not. Especially since we ALL know that the Queen Mum always blamed Edward VIII for her husband's death. And Philip is in such poor health right now anyways. I think this is behind the statement this morning that the Queen or Prince Philip didn't make the statement about Archie's skin color. Maybe Harry's starting to wake up to what he's done.
  #620  
Old 03-08-2021, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I have to disagree with you on one point, Muhler. Britain is not a politically correct place. Nor is the US. I'm not sure if one exists, but Meghan would not have encountered the issues with racism she did if it were considered less acceptable.

Well, two. I'm not sure what the BRF can say, or who or how is meant to respond. Will statements from the Palace cut it? And is that really a good idea?
Fair enough. It is certainly an impression I have of Britain, hence my statement.

Yes. The BRF will have to respond in regards to the very direct accusation of downright racism.
This is not potentially damaging to the BRF, it is damaging. So they have to address it.

The rest I think can be more or less ignored.
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