The Duke & Duchess of Sussex with Oprah II - Interview, March 7th-9th 2021

[Queen Ester]

I don’t think that any of us at this distance and not knowing Meghan personally, can say what state her mental health was in. No-one but the person themselves can say how they are feeling at a particular time. The partner may guess, and a psychiatrist can diagnose but nobody really knows but the individual.


And I believe Meghan when she says she felt suicidal, just as I believe she was extremely miserable for much of that last year in the UK.

Well, she looks great now, he does not, by the way, he looks and sounds like a very boring person, so it's a good thing they left, why do they keep whimpering. It's very tiresome.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

So he's having the Andrew problem?

Possibly. He may have intellectually known that it was possible but it didn't hit home until her pregnancy. That is just a guess but it does explain the reports that the family didn't appreciate how popular Harry and Meghan were.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

Diplomatic fallout , nothing less ?
I' m dying ....

I think the Biden Administration needs to stay in its' own lane re: this mess. There is no need....NONE...for the POTUS or his spokespeople to comment on what is essentially a Windsor family crisis.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

The quotes seem to refer to repeated conversations and concern over "too dark", so as reported by H&M, it appears to be taken as racist. Harry refuses to say who it was because it is so damaging, so that seems to go beyond what would merely be insensitive.

That may have been the way that Harry and Meghan are portraying it but they are also alleging that Archie wasn't made a prince because of racism. That damages their credibility.

I cannot picture any of the royal family as being malicious on the basis of race. I have said some things that I didn't understand were hurtful, and I think we all do.

 

[Kellydofc]

The quotes refer to repeated conversations and concern over "too dark", so as reported by H&M, it appears to be taken as racist. Harry refuses to say who it was because it is so damaging, so that seems to go beyond what would merely be insensitive.

Except Harry says it was only one comment when he and Meghan first started dating. They totally contradict one another's statement's which is why it hard to know what the truth is.

 

[Queen Ester]

Possibly. He may have intellectually known that it was possible but it didn't hit home until her pregnancy. That is just a guess but it does explain the reports that the family didn't appreciate how popular Harry and Meghan were.

What is an Andrew problem? Harry was not accused of having sex with minors, is it an idiom for something else?

 

[UglyAmerican]

Actually, that may have been what Meghan meant when she said that "they" were talking about changing the rules on titles. I wonder if although this forum has been discussing a slimmed down monarchy for years, Harry didn't realize that if the monarchy was slimmed down, his children may not be working royals when William is king. I'm sure he knew on some level but it could have been different when Archie was born and it stopped being hypothetical.

I just don't see how that's possible. Supposedly he and Eugenie were close, and he was surely aware of it when they lost their security and were basically involuntarily retired as working royals. There was a lot of talk about how it wasn't really fair for the family to raise them as princesses with the expectation that they'd make a career of being working royals, then just cut them loose like that. According to press coverage at the time, it was done to allay public criticism about expenses. I imagine part of the reason Eugenie and Jack were happy to take over Frogmore was because they'd get a secured location without the need to pay for security for the property. Beatrice and Eugenie are the children of a spare rather than the heir. That's exactly what Archie will be when Charles becomes King. Harry may not be the brightest, but I don't think he was so dumb as to not understand that Beatrice and Eugenie's present reflects Archie's future.

 

[Erin9]

The quotes seem to refer to repeated conversations and concern over "too dark", so as reported by H&M, it appears to be taken as racist. Harry refuses to say who it was because it is so damaging, so that seems to go beyond what would merely be insensitive.

That depends on whose version you listen to. Harry had one version. Meghan had another. One of the many problems with this alleged racism is their stories don’t match. And if one part of the story doesn’t match up, it easily calls into question ALL of it.

I don’t know what- if anything- happened. I do know they couldn’t keep their stories straight.

 

[AC21091968]

1. Without the full context of the ' colour' of Archie comment , it is hard to determine if it was tactless, rude , or blatantly racist. Now everybody is being accused even a 99 year old seriously ill man who served his country his whole adult life.

2. Williams children are the only great grandchildren to have titles, so the rules were not changed to exclude Archie. ( Why did Oprah not ask about the other great grand children)

3. Why would you not approach your doctor or family on a health matter , instead you go to HR, who deal with the staff. Do you not have a doctor, your husband leads on a mental health initiative. ( Simple question )

4,There wasn't a problem getting her passport to go NY, South of France, Lake Como.
You have a PA who organises your travel and deals with all the incidentals on your behalf including sorting out the travel arrangements. ( was she locked in and not permitted to travel )

5. Nobody asked her to stand outside the hospital to pose, well they refused to provide any information re the birth so there was no way there was going to be a photocall. I had always thought the private birth, christening and god parents were all about they wanted Archie brought up below the radar more or less a private citizen. Or as it now seems them stamping their feet in a tantrum because he was not to be titled a prince. Would it have been different if he had been given the title prince.

6. I wasn't allowed to go to lunch with my friends. Was she locked in the rooms.

7. The secret wedding... possibly a blessing, but not a secret wedding. They would have been permitted a low key wedding if they had wanted. You need 2 witnesses in this country to be married legally, she forgot about that.

My personal opinion is that Meghan has been very selective in what she said, positioning things in such a way to have full impact. I am disappointed that Oprah did not do her homework better and challenge them on some of the statements. Meghan very much wanted to put over the poor me message and Oprah either fell for it or was happy to run with it for the ratings. Channelling Diana etc. I am not saying life was easy for her, but I am not a journalist and I can pick holes in her argument.

Very good point raise indeed!

The accusation of racism just appear very vague and the events did not add up (i.e. discrepancy on the time that Archie's skin colour was brought up). If have hear it correctly, Meghan said "potentially", which again adds more uncertainty. It's almost as if Harry & Meghan are making blanket statements, pointing the finger at every royal family member and claim the institution is systematically racist without naming the individual.

As regards to Oprah not doing much research into the topic, some twitter users have pointed out that Andrew Neil would have done a better job questioning every details behind Harry & Meghan and have much better knowledge on the Royal Family, given that his experience in interviewing politicians. But then, as some pointed out, Harry and Meghan would not want to pick Andrew Neil, because he has a history of "destroying" guests (both politically/socially left and right) who have holes/inconsistency or lack of evidence in their arguments

Tim Shipman, political editor of The Sunday Times also criticised Oprah not doing proper research on the Royal Family

Tim Shipman @ShippersUnbound
Oprah seems unaware that several of the Queen’s grandchildren are not even HRHs. Pity
8:39 AM · Mar 9, 2021·Twitter for iPhone​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1369040222248439813

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

The quotes refer to repeated conversations and concern over "too dark", so as reported by H&M, it appears to be taken as racist. Harry refuses to say who it was because it is so damaging, so that seems to go beyond what would merely be insensitive.

Ah, but "the quotes" do not refer to repeated conversations.

Only Meghan refers to repeated conversations. Harry, who seemed to be genuinely shaken to his core to have it brought up, referred to "that conversation. I am never going to share." He looked like he had seen a ghost, and it seemed quite clear he was remembering a particular event.

My interpretation? There was one conversation- and most probably, one comment- made to Harry very early on when he was dating Meghan. This is what Harry recalled. He does not say whether it was about his future child being "too dark," either.

Later on, when Meghan was pregnant, he brought the comment up to her. This is probably the "repeated conversations" she remembers, and probably how she came to conflate the issues of that conversation with the issue of her baby's appearance- this is probably the context on it was introduced to her, and it may have been on multiple occasions.

And whether or not the comment(s) genuinely was about whether the baby would be "too dark" or one of the many other possibilities floated out there, a concern that he would be "too dark" is how Harry interpreted it, and how he conveyed it to Meghan.

This is my interpretation of what I saw last night.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

What is an Andrew problem? Harry was not accused of having sex with minors, is it an idiom for something else?

No, absolutely not. We were discussing Prince Andrew's concern that his daughters would not be working royals and eligible for security.

 

[HighGoalHighDreams]

What is an Andrew problem? Harry was not accused of having sex with minors, is it an idiom for something else?

Second son problem... how to survive and carve out a role for oneself when with every passing year, you are essentially becoming less essential to the institution because your brother's family is "moving in," but you yourself don't change.

 

[Lucy Scot]

- Charles's role is not to defend every single member of the family in the press... He probably told Meghan to carry on and keep calm.

LOL Thanks for the laugh. Maybe he gave her a mug with that written on it, too.

 

[BriarRose]

Her Majesty is the head of the Church of England. I can't see the Archbishop presiding over Harry's secret backyard marriage ceremony without her approval ... which seems unlikely to have been given.

It must have been a private blessing, not an official ceremony.

I really am not making light of serious issues/conversations here, but my 80-year-old father has been going off all day about this. (He married my Mom in the U.S. first, and then of course, couldn't have a second wedding at his parent's church in England. Apparently, it still bugs him.)

He's been calling me all day, and I keep explaining that, obviously, they didn't officially marry in the garden, no rules were broken. (Why Harry didn't clarify it in the moment is beyond me.)

Two hours ago, he told me, in all seriousness, that he was going to email the Archbishop. I hope he isn't expecting a reply.

 

[Prinsara]

Ah, but "the quotes" do not refer to repeated conversations.

Only Meghan refers to repeated conversations. Harry, who seemed to be genuinely shaken to his core to have it brought up, referred to "that conversation. I am never going to share." He looked like he had seen a ghost, and it seemed quite clear he was remembering a particular event.

My interpretation? There was one conversation- and most probably, one comment- made to Harry very early on when he was dating Meghan. This is what Harry recalled. He does not say whether it was about his future child being "too dark," either.

Later on, when Meghan was pregnant, he brought the comment up to her. This is probably the "repeated conversations" she remembers, and probably how she came to conflate the issues of that conversation with the issue of her baby's appearance- this is probably the context on it was introduced to her, and it may have been on multiple occasions.

And whether or not the comment(s) genuinely was about whether the baby would be "too dark" or one of the many other possibilities floated out there, a concern that he would be "too dark" is how Harry interpreted it, and how he conveyed it to Meghan.

This is my interpretation of what I saw last night.

It's certainly one plausible explanation for how the stories got conflated. My original remark was not that "that conversation" was 100% accurately relayed by M&H, but trying to figure out who the other party would be and how they would have ended up making such a comment.

 

[Osipi]

In the scheme of things going forward into the future, I have to think that Harry and Meghan got what they wanted. Instant gratification. They've told their "side" of things with many points being obscured and no real context given to them. They've painted the picture that they've signed with Netflix because Daddy cut off the financial support which actually was compensation for working for the family "Firm" in the first place. They've set the world on fire with astounding ratings through the roof that people *cared* to hear what they had to say.

In the long run though, I believe this interview will be detrimental going forward and remembered much as Andrew's disastrous interview is remembered today long after it aired. They've basically said that the reason for the Netflix contract was to support what they needed. That, right there, lays to rest any idea that their motives for programming is to "make a difference". Like David and Wallis, they were front page news at the time of the abdication but as time passed, they were always deemed the "outliers" of the British Royal Family and pariahs. I'm afraid this is how Harry and Meghan are going to be perceived. They "once were important" and now they're not.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if after all this, the British charities and incentives that they did retain, request their removal. I think they've burnt their bridges both in their professional lives as much as in their private lives.

All for instant gratification.

 

[Kellydofc]

What is an Andrew problem? Harry was not accused of having sex with minors, is it an idiom for something else?

Andrew famously had quite the fit when he found out that Beatrice and Eugenie weren't going to be working royals. He spent years trying to persuade people that they should be paid from the civil lists, keep their security, have huge weddings, their children should have titles, the whole shebang.

That's what I meant by the Andrew problem.

 

[Erin9]

It's certainly one plausible explanation for how the stories got conflated. My original remark was not that "that conversation" was 100% accurately relayed by M&H, but trying to figure out who the other party would be and how they would have ended up making such a comment.

I think it’s difficult to conclude anything when Harry and Meghan can’t even tell the same story to begin with.

Then there’s the reasonable question of what Harry supposedly heard versus what was actually said and intended. He expressed surprise that the supposed comment was made at all. That itself makes me ponder the true veracity of this racist comment.

 

[Prinsara]

Can someone remind me what the "falsehoods" were, again? Just "money-grubbing royals", or something else?

 

[US Royal Watcher]

Can someone remind me what the "falsehoods" were, again? Just "money-grubbing royals", or something else?

I believe she was referring to the bullying allegations against her by her staff. It's also possible that she was referring to the "she made Kate cry" articles.

 

[QueenMathilde]

Well I'll admit - I don't like Oprah and I thought she'd go fishing for dirt but I didn't expect Harry to take the bait.

 

[Roderick]

Possibly. I can understand why Harry and Meghan were offended, if the remark actually was made. It's also possible that like the issue of the title for Archie, the Firm perpetrating falsehoods, William suggesting that Harry go slow, and the Firm denying Meghan mental health care, that the reality was very different but was reinterpreted to fit their agenda.

Why would the royal family deny Meghan mental health care??? I do not accept this. They certainly got Diana help in a prompt manner back in 1981 when she needed it.

 

[Curryong]

UK viewers were apparently scrambling at ITV Hub, an associate channel, to register/log in to view the Oprah interview but demand was so great the site crashed.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14278814/itv-hub-meghan-markle-prince-harry-oprah-crash/

 

[Missjersey]

In the scheme of things going forward into the future, I have to think that Harry and Meghan got what they wanted. Instant gratification. They've told their "side" of things with many points being obscured and no real context given to them. They've painted the picture that they've signed with Netflix because Daddy cut off the financial support which actually was compensation for working for the family "Firm" in the first place. They've set the world on fire with astounding ratings through the roof that people *cared* to hear what they had to say.

In the long run though, I believe this interview will be detrimental going forward and remembered much as Andrew's disastrous interview is remembered today long after it aired. They've basically said that the reason for the Netflix contract was to support what they needed. That, right there, lays to rest any idea that their motives for programming is to "make a difference". Like David and Wallis, they were front page news at the time of the abdication but as time passed, they were always deemed the "outliers" of the British Royal Family and pariahs. I'm afraid this is how Harry and Meghan are going to be perceived. They "once were important" and now they're not.

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if after all this, the British charities and incentives that they did retain, request their removal. I think they've burnt their bridges both in their professional lives as much as in their private lives.

All for instant gratification.

Absolutely agree Osipi, all for the world stage...

 

[Roslyn]

Ah, but "the quotes" do not refer to repeated conversations.

Only Meghan refers to repeated conversations. Harry, who seemed to be genuinely shaken to his core to have it brought up, referred to "that conversation. I am never going to share." He looked like he had seen a ghost, and it seemed quite clear he was remembering a particular event.

My interpretation? There was one conversation- and most probably, one comment- made to Harry very early on when he was dating Meghan. This is what Harry recalled. He does not say whether it was about his future child being "too dark," either.

Later on, when Meghan was pregnant, he brought the comment up to her. This is probably the "repeated conversations" she remembers, and probably how she came to conflate the issues of that conversation with the issue of her baby's appearance- this is probably the context on it was introduced to her, and it may have been on multiple occasions.

And whether or not the comment(s) genuinely was about whether the baby would be "too dark" or one of the many other possibilities floated out there, a concern that he would be "too dark" is how Harry interpreted it, and how he conveyed it to Meghan.

This is my interpretation of what I saw last night.

I took a similar view. Though I also think it's possible that Harry had one particular conversation with a significant member of the family at an early stage, and it shook him quite a bit, and I think there could have been other inoffensive conversations with family members during the pregnancy: innocent musings about who Archie was going to look like. I think those later conversations might have reminded them - Harry, particularly - of the early conversation, and they took those innocent comments to be inspired by racism. This is all speculation though because they wouldn't tell us. They also don't seem to have been prepared for that line of questioning or they would have probably been better prepared to respond.

 

[camelot23ca]

Ah, but "the quotes" do not refer to repeated conversations.

Only Meghan refers to repeated conversations. Harry, who seemed to be genuinely shaken to his core to have it brought up, referred to "that conversation. I am never going to share." He looked like he had seen a ghost, and it seemed quite clear he was remembering a particular event.

My interpretation? There was one conversation- and most probably, one comment- made to Harry very early on when he was dating Meghan. This is what Harry recalled. He does not say whether it was about his future child being "too dark," either.

Later on, when Meghan was pregnant, he brought the comment up to her. This is probably the "repeated conversations" she remembers, and probably how she came to conflate the issues of that conversation with the issue of her baby's appearance- this is probably the context on it was introduced to her, and it may have been on multiple occasions.

And whether or not the comment(s) genuinely was about whether the baby would be "too dark" or one of the many other possibilities floated out there, a concern that he would be "too dark" is how Harry interpreted it, and how he conveyed it to Meghan.

This is my interpretation of what I saw last night.

Harry may have looked shaken because he’s either flat out lying or he knows full well he and Meghan are misrepresenting a conversation or comment one of his family members made several years ago, in private, to Harry alone.

This one may not even be on Meghan. Harry may have casually mentioned the conversation to Meghan some time after it occurred. Harry wasn’t exactly known for his cosmopolitan outlook before he started dating a biracial woman and saw the light, so who’s to say he didn’t embellish a little when he was retelling the story, either because he thought it was great fun, or because he knew Meghan wanted to hear something that confirmed what she wanted to believe about Harry’s family, (as well as the British press and the British people).

So Harry doesn’t say anything to the family member at the time. Meghan doesn’t say anything to them when she finds out. They’re both fine with talking about racism in public, specifically saying that listening and communication are important when addressing the issue and also talking about how these are such important conversations to have - so that applies to everyone except Harry’s family? The public gets communication and understanding, Harry’s family member, one of the only people in the UK who cannot effectively defend themselves or engage in any sort of raw personal discussion, gets a knife in the back on Oprah.

 

[Queen Ester]

Andrew famously had quite the fit when he found out that Beatrice and Eugenie weren't going to be working royals. He spent years trying to persuade people that they should be paid from the civil lists, keep their security, have huge weddings, their children should have titles, the whole shebang.

That's what I meant by the Andrew problem.

thank you now I understand what he means

 

[Curryong]

Why would the royal family deny Meghan mental health care??? I do not accept this. They certainly got Diana help in a prompt manner back in 1981 when she needed it.

Who are ‘they’? I’ve never read that Prince Philip, the Queen, the QM etc were rushing around trying to get Diana the help she needed for her bulimia and other problems. The Staff at the time certainly weren’t asked about it.


Certainly Charles consulted his elderly friend the philosopher Van der Post about Diana’s mental issues and he suggested a couple of therapists who were later used, but no other royal stepped forward as far as I know.


IMO it wasn’t so much denying Meghan mental health care that the other royals were doing as ignoring it and carrying on as usual. I feel that by that stage Harry and the pregnant Meghan were desperate.


The Queen and Charles were far too busy always to see them so they could discuss their concerns (shades of Diana’s treatment there) Harry and his brother weren’t speaking, and Meghan wasn’t close to Kate. So family talks and consultations were out.


The couple didn’t trust the BP staff, Meghan apparently went to the head of HR, no help there, and so they consulted others. I believe that one of Diana’s best friends is now a psychologist or therapist and she may have been a conduit to finding other help or she may have helped Meghan directly. Meghan mentioned her in the interview, I think.

 

[US Royal Watcher]

IMO it wasn’t so much denying Meghan mental health care that the other royals were doing as ignoring it and carrying on as usual. I feel that by that stage Harry and the pregnant Meghan were desperate.

Again, it is possible but the issue with this interpretation is that Harry and Meghan were adults in their mid-30s. They both had money, Harry has had counselling himself, and presumably, they could both use the internet. Why would it be necessary for the other royals to intervene?

Perhaps you are suggesting that the other royals should have kept tabs and intervened because Harry is so incompetent. I think it is safe to say that they probably didn't see Meghan that often. And, to the extent they noticed an issue, they thought it was a bad day for her (she was pregnant) and trusted that Harry would do whatever it took to protect his wife.

ETA - there are people all over the world who manage to seek help even though they do not have personal assistants.

 

[Kellydofc]

Who are ‘they’? I’ve never read that Prince Philip, the Queen, the QM etc were rushing around trying to get Diana the help she needed for her bulimia and other problems. The Staff at the time certainly weren’t asked about it.


Certainly Charles consulted his elderly friend the philosopher Van der Post about Diana’s mental issues and he suggested a couple of therapists who were later used, but no other royal stepped forward as far as I know.


IMO it wasn’t so much denying Meghan mental health care that the other royals were doing as ignoring it and carrying on as usual. I feel that by that stage Harry and the pregnant Meghan were desperate.


The Queen and Charles were far too busy always to see them so they could discuss their concerns (shades of Diana’s treatment there) Harry and his brother weren’t speaking, and Meghan wasn’t close to Kate. So family talks and consultations were out.


The couple didn’t trust the BP staff, Meghan apparently went to the head of HR, no help there, and so they consulted others. I believe that one of Diana’s best friends is now a psychologist or therapist and she may have been a conduit to finding other help or she may have helped Meghan directly. Meghan mentioned her in the interview, I think.

Except we know they got Harry help. And Harry is an adult who is the patron of more than one mental health organization. At what point do we accept that Harry and Meghan are 30+ year old adults and capable of picking up phones and calling a doctor themselves?

Do we really think the BRF would have not allowed Meghan to see her regular health care provider or OBGYN? If she had told this person she was depressed or suicidal do we really think they would have not gotten her help? I find it so hard to believe that Meghan really, honestly had no access at all to mental health care ESPECIALLY when Harry has been so open about getting therapy in the past. At the very least couldn't Harry have gotten on the phone and called his old therapist and asked for help or a referral? That's why this just doesn't ring true to me not because of Diana but because of Harry himself.

I think Meghan WAS offered help I just think it wasn't what she wanted. And I have a very sneaking suspicion that if you offer Meghan something and it isn't what she wants she'll turn the whole thing down. She wants all or she'll take nothing.