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  #821  
Old 03-07-2021, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
The truth can be subjective sometimes can't it? For example, as a boss I could convey my displeasure at staff not carrying out my instructions properly and describe them as difficult or obstructive. An employee might subsequently describe me as too demanding. Whose truth is correct there?

I suspect many of us have been in family situations where someone has complained that we treated them unfairly (anyone with more than one child will be familiar with that!). Then we have "you said", "he said" etc with exaggerated retellings of events. "He threw it at it me", "No, I accidentally knocked it over", "She shouted at me", "He shouted at me first so I shouted back". Trying to establish an objective truth is always a worthy aim but not always achievable.
In that case there is no reason for Meg & Harry to publicise "their truth". it IS as they're admitting only their truth so its not necessarily to be believed...
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  #822  
Old 03-07-2021, 11:59 AM
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If Meghan wanted to find her voice, then it's fair if the staffs wanted to find theirs.
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  #823  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:01 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
why are you blaming the entire BRF for the behavior of 2 members of hte fmaily who have walked out of the family?
and Im not sure what's meant by "neighbours and co workers dressed up in tiaras"?? What has that to do with the BRF?
I am not "blaming" anyone Denville. I am stating that my perception of the Institution as a whole has been affected by the drip drip drip of never ending unseemly scandal coming from the Windsors since the 80's. They seem quite honestly more common than Royal now with only a couple of exceptions.

I agree 100% with Marengo's earlier observation about how the Prime Minister can ...or should...act as some kind of buffer before a situation in the RF allowed to be reduced to reality TV level.

And if it matters to you I feel exactly the same way about the loss of prestige within the American presidency. It's shocking and sad.
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  #824  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fem View Post
And I'd also say, one more time, there is a huge difference between "courtier/staff leaks" and wronged FORMER employees coming to the press to get noticed that not everything is smelling like roses.

This doesn't have anything to do with "Team Sussex" or "Team BRF", as everyone involved (besides, of course, the employees) looks bad. If the allegations are true, the Sussexes bullied their staff, which is wrong. But if the allegations are true, the BP/KP covered for the Sussexes and protected them, not providing enough support for the employees.

Maybe I'm a Millenial, but I despise the current catchy slogan "their truth", "my truth", whatever. The truth is only one and we'll probably never get it in this case.


Agreed. I despise the slogan “their truth”, “my truth”. There is only one. Slogans like that IMO give people license to say whatever they want consequence free.

It’s frankly one reason I won’t watch this interview. Oprah is going to talk about Meghan speaking “her truth.” I heard her say it. Meghan is telling a story that she hopes makes her look good and leads to money making opportunities. How much or little actual truth is in this tale....who knows. But- she’s telling a story. This is about selling herself to the American public first and last IMO.
  #825  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:27 PM
Archduchess Zelia's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
First, I disagree with the premise that these stories are retaliation. Most of them have been in circulation for a long time. The reason they resurfaced at this time is because the decision has been issued in Meghan and Harry's court case. Apparently, some of the staff may have been called to testify.

If the Queen should make it clear that retaliation stories are not tolerated, should Meghan and Harry tell their friends to stop attacking the royal family?
https://people.com/royals/meghan-mar...-palace-staff/
Right. Just a big coinkydink that they should resurface just before the interview then

What attacks on the BRF? Is it an attack on the BRF for her friends and former colleagues to speak favourably about their experiences with Meghan? (If so, you're contradicting yourself about the leaks as retaliation). Aside from maybe Jameela Jamil's tweets, I see no attacks in the article you've linked to.

Jamil is insufferable and blows everything she puts her name to out of proportions. Still, I don't think she's wrong that it's curious to see the firm's harsh reaction to the hullaballoo surrounding H&M versus their passive (bordering on non-existent) reaction to the pretty solid allegations against Andrew.
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  #826  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Right. Just a big coinkydink that they should resurface just before the interview then

What attacks on the BRF? Is it an attack on the BRF for her friends and former colleagues to speak favourably about their experiences with Meghan? (If so, you're contradicting yourself about the leaks as retaliation). Aside from maybe Jameela Jamil's tweets, I see no attacks in the article you've linked to.

Jamil is insufferable and blows everything she puts her name to out of proportions. Still, I don't think she's wrong that it's curious to see the firm's harsh reaction to the hullaballoo surrounding H&M versus their passive (bordering on non-existent) reaction to the pretty solid allegations against Andrew.
Patrick Adams, Meghan's co-star, said that Meghan was above the royals' league, and the bullying claims are just lies as she was the most wonderful friend to him.
  #827  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I am not "blaming" anyone Denville. I am stating that my perception of the Institution as a whole has been affected by the drip drip drip of never ending unseemly scandal coming from the Windsors since the 80's. They seem quite honestly more common than Royal now with only a couple of exceptions.
I don't see it like that at all. There was a very bad patch from the "toe-sucking" affair to the War of the Waleses, but that was over quarter of a century ago, and everyone has moved on. Only a few years ago, everything was going well. Thanks to three selfish, entitled individuals - Harry, Meghan and Andrew - things are now problematic again, which, given that the Queen is now in her 90s and would have hoped to see her reign out on the high note that it was at c. 2018, is very sad. But you rarely hear criticism of William and Kate, or of Princess Anne, or of Edward and Sophie, or even of Charles and Camilla after 15 years of marriage.

There've always been bad patches. Queen Victoria's uncles got involved in one scandal after another. They come and go. It's just very sad that this one's come at this point in the Queen's very long reign.
  #828  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:43 PM
Moonmaiden23's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Right. Just a big coinkydink that they should resurface just before the interview then

What attacks on the BRF? Is it an attack on the BRF for her friends and former colleagues to speak favourably about their experiences with Meghan? (If so, you're contradicting yourself about the leaks as retaliation). Aside from maybe Jameela Jamil's tweets, I see no attacks in the article you've linked to.

Jamil is insufferable and blows everything she puts her name to out of proportions. Still, I don't think she's wrong that it's curious to see the firm's harsh reaction to the hullaballoo surrounding H&M versus their passive (bordering on non-existent) reaction to the pretty solid allegations against Andrew.
The difference is that Prince Andrew has not decamped to a foreign country to take shots at his family, the press and the British monarchy. He has not railed against his loss of status. He is not whining about being rubbed out of his own daughter's wedding photos. He has not dispatched friends and family to Social Media to complain about the injustice of it all.

Ever since his self inflicted downfall he has kept his mouth shut and remained out of sight...which is exactly what he should be doing.

Perhaps that is why Buckingham Palace has not moved against him?
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  #829  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estel View Post
Patrick Adams, Meghan's co-star, said that Meghan was above the royals' league, and the bullying claims are just lies as she was the most wonderful friend to him.
That’s great.Happy for him. But being wonderful to your friends and Co Stars is easy. The measure of a persons character is how you treat the waiter and janitor If you don’t treat them just a kind and respectful you are not a good person to begin with:)
  #830  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archduchess Zelia View Post
Right. Just a big coinkydink that they should resurface just before the interview then

What attacks on the BRF? Is it an attack on the BRF for her friends and former colleagues to speak favourably about their experiences with Meghan? (If so, you're contradicting yourself about the leaks as retaliation). Aside from maybe Jameela Jamil's tweets, I see no attacks in the article you've linked to.

Jamil is insufferable and blows everything she puts her name to out of proportions. Still, I don't think she's wrong that it's curious to see the firm's harsh reaction to the hullaballoo surrounding H&M versus their passive (bordering on non-existent) reaction to the pretty solid allegations against Andrew.
I don't understand your point. Is it a big 'coinkydink' that Meghan and Harry gave this interview after they won their case? With respect to the attacks on the royal family, did you read the article I linked or Patrick Adams statements.

I am not sure why Meghan and Harry's supporters keep brining up Andrew. We all agree that Andrew's continued friendship with Epstein was terrible, but what does that have to do with Meghan and Harry? If Meghan did throw hot tea at someone, is that okay because Andrew was friends with Epstein?
  #831  
Old 03-07-2021, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
The difference is that Prince Andrew has not decamped to a foreign country to take shots at his family, the press and the British monarchy. He has not railed against his loss of status. He is not whining about being rubbed out of his own daughter's wedding photos. He has not dispatched friends and family to Social Media to rail against the injustice of it all.

Ever since his self inflicted downfall he has kept his mouth shut and remained out of sight...which is exactly what he should be doing.

Perhaps that is why Buckingham Palace has not moved against him?
I agree with your post and I would further add that what exactly is Buckingham Palace supposed to do? It's not a law enforcement agency and he's still the Queen's son. I think it is pretty harsh to argue that she should disown him over these allegations - and they are just allegations. I guess Harry and Meghan should be given the benefit of the doubt, but no one else.
  #832  
Old 03-07-2021, 01:05 PM
Somebody's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
The truth can be subjective sometimes can't it? For example, as a boss I could convey my displeasure at staff not carrying out my instructions properly and describe them as difficult or obstructive. An employee might subsequently describe me as too demanding. Whose truth is correct there?

I suspect many of us have been in family situations where someone has complained that we treated them unfairly (anyone with more than one child will be familiar with that!). Then we have "you said", "he said" etc with exaggerated retellings of events. "He threw it at it me", "No, I accidentally knocked it over", "She shouted at me", "He shouted at me first so I shouted back". Trying to establish an objective truth is always a worthy aim but not always achievable.
I would say that people have different perspectives not different 'truths'. The truth itself is not subjective - interpretation of a situation might of course differ. But it seems we agree on that part. I guess I am merely stating that I agree with Fem on the use of 'my truth'; which is a contradictio in terminis.
  #833  
Old 03-07-2021, 01:16 PM
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What is the saying? That everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts?

The issues are, of course:
-the facts are hard to come by in private matters like this, no matter how public they get
-"[someone's] truth" is a catchier saying than "my view of things"
  #834  
Old 03-07-2021, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I don't understand your point. Is it a big coinkydink that Meghan and Harry gave this interview after they won their case? With respect to the attacks on the royal family, did you read the article I linked or Patrick Adams statements.

I am not sure why Meghan and Harry's supporters keep brining up Andrew. We all agree that Andrew's continued friendship with Epstein was terrible, but what does that have to do with Meghan and Harry? If Meghan did throw hot tea at someone, is that okay because Andrew was friends with Epstein?
They won their case in early February yet the accusations emerge right before the interview? I think it's fairly far-fetched to try to pretend there isn't a correlation.

So two "friends" have criticised the BRF (in response to the leaks). Not sure how it changes my point that the surest way for HM to avoid getting blamed for leaks is to put a stop to the leaks.

I haven't seen anyone bringing up Andrew's actions (which extend a bit beyond just friendship with Epstein) to counter the allegations against Meghan. Only people being confused about the firm's combative reaction to H&M juxtaposed to their almost non-existent reaction to Andrew.
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  #835  
Old 03-07-2021, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crm2317 View Post
I will be watching the interview when it airs here in the UK, my curiosity would be too strong not to. It’ll be with an open mind though as we will only ever hear the Sussex side of the story really, we won’t be seeing the Queen/Charles/William sitting down with Piers Morgan to tell the nation how things played out from their point of view. Sometimes this is when I feel most sorry for them, they can’t even really speak out for themselves. They just try and maintain a dignified silence and carry on.
I will watch as well in the States, very curious as to what will be said
  #836  
Old 03-07-2021, 01:38 PM
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It's very odd the Meghan supporters don't find it odd how she invited Oprah to her wedding and they weren't friends. This comes out of Oprah's mouth. She invited all these celebs to her wedding she didn't know and some of Harry's cousins/friends did not get an invite to the wedding. No one knows Meghan without the Royal Family.

The same Meghan who will play the card of the UK is racist but before she only identified as a Caucasian woman lol. There is something totally off with her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
Actually, Meghan and Harry have benefited from the stories coming out before the interview. They have been able to use the interview to respond. Oprah probably reached out to the palace but the palace probably didn't comment. However, the staff will probably not have the chance to tell their side during Oprah's interview.
Now this would be fun! If Royal aides could detail their experience with Meghan.
  #837  
Old 03-07-2021, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I would say that people have different perspectives not different 'truths'. The truth itself is not subjective - interpretation of a situation might of course differ. But it seems we agree on that part. I guess I am merely stating that I agree with Fem on the use of 'my truth'; which is a contradictio in terminis.


I agree. People can and do interpret or perceive a situation differently- but the truth- the actual facts- are what they are. There is no such thing as Meghan’s truth. There is her story, her interpretation of events, her spin....but that’s it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
What is the saying? That everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts?

The issues are, of course:
-the facts are hard to come by in private matters like this, no matter how public they get
-"[someone's] truth" is a catchier saying than "my view of things"


What concerns me about “(someone’s) truth” is to me it’s an attempt to give more weight or validity to what they’re saying. Using the word truth- means honesty and facts. So- Meghan has spoken HER truth, according to Oprah. Well- who can then really contradict her because it is “HER truth?” Not the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess_Watcher View Post
It's very odd the Meghan supporters don't find it odd how she invited Oprah to her wedding and they weren't friends. This comes out of Oprah's mouth. She invited all these celebs to her wedding she didn't know and some of Harry's cousins/friends did not get an invite to the wedding. No one knows Meghan without the Royal Family.

I find it amusing that I’m supposed to take even remotely seriously an interview conducted by a woman who attended their wedding. Whatever the reason.

Oprah is a pretty softball interviewer anyway. No wonder they chose her.

That being said- I do think Oprah is a good interviewer and has used her platform/position to do a lot of good over the years. I don’t agree with her talking about people speaking their truth though.
  #838  
Old 03-07-2021, 02:04 PM
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I am thinking of the August 2019. US Vanity Fair cover that Meghan agreed to when word that she was Harry's girlfriend first got out. THIS IS OUR TIME she proclaims on the cover.

My question...which I remember posting in TRF...why was it necessary? Other than a dedicated handful of people no one ever heard of MM.There would have been plenty of time for her to nab magazine covers AFTER/IF she became engaged to Harry...no? There are photos of Meghan gleefully perusing the stills from the photo shoot. (Yes i kept the issue)

I bring this up because it gives the lie to her assertion that Buckingham Palace somehow stifled her voice early on. Was any other Royal girlfriend in memory encouraged or permitted to do a "get to know me" magazine spread freely discussing her Royal relationship?

Diana? Sarah? Sophie? Kate? Autumn?

For me, it was a huge red flag from the beginning. I was not surprised by the choice of "This Little Light of Mine.. I'm Gonna Let It Shine" as her wedding anthem in retrospect.

My suspicion has always been that MM loves publicity and lots of it. She would not have pursued an acting career otherwise. But as a British columnist pointed out...Meghan was perhaps anticipating Beyonce Fame, not Royal Fame. They are two quite widely different spheres and do not normally overlap ...until recently.

That Meghan did not grasp, understand or accept the difference is, more than anything else, why she did not succeed as a Royal princess.
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  #839  
Old 03-07-2021, 02:26 PM
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I 100% agree with this ^^, I don't think it is a bad thing to want fame. But what Meghan didn't realise is that royal fame comes with a lot more responsibility than being famous as an actress or on your own in some other way. The Vanity Fair cover certainly made a statement about the way Meghan saw being involved with the RF. As I recall not all that many people even speculated they were an item at the time so it wasn't about confirming a widely held believe but really making a statement that the two were together and Meghan was now 'in with the royals'.
I guess the hope was that with the right support rather than Hollywood style support she would easily move across into this different yet not all too dissimilar role.

Sad, Oprah is a great interviewer and it would be great to see her talk and ask about some of these issues (even without being too critical)with Meghan and Harry. More likely we'll get 2 hours of soft questions all based around the version of the truth Meghan and Harry want to tell.
  #840  
Old 03-07-2021, 02:27 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonmaiden23 View Post
I am not "blaming" anyone Denville. I am stating that my perception of the Institution as a whole has been affected by the drip drip drip of never ending unseemly scandal coming from the Windsors since the 80's. They seem quite honestly more common than Royal now with only a couple of exceptions.

I agree 100% with Marengo's earlier observation about how the Prime Minister can ...or should...act as some kind of buffer before a situation in the RF allowed to be reduced to reality TV level.

And if it matters to you I feel exactly the same way about the loss of prestige within the American presidency. It's shocking and sad.
Im still puzzled about the "neighbours wearing tiaras" but -
and Im also puzzled as to who is so "common" in the RF? the queen? She has a bad blind spot over Andrew, but other than that, she's generally felt to be a dignified and dutiful sovereign. Philip? Charles and Camilla now happily married for 15 years and both doing thier job. William and Kate? Edward and Sophie?
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