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  #861  
Old 11-22-2020, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
I've read that the series will end in the early 2000s era.

I'd imagine it will end with the deaths of Princess Margaret and the queen mother in 2002,two of the principal characters. I can't see it going any further than that.
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  #862  
Old 11-22-2020, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
Peter Morgan is a republican, and if someone told me that he actually created this series to intentionally undermine them under the guise of making a show about the Queen's life and duty, I wouldn't be surprised.
Perhaps not to undermine them, but he certainly has no obligation or even interest to portray them in a favorable light, now does he?

On the other hand, he's also made The Queen and the play The Audience, so for a republican he has an awful lot of fascination (not to mention bread-and-butter) with Elizabeth.
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  #863  
Old 11-22-2020, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
Perhaps not to undermine them, but he certainly has no obligation or even interest to portray them in a favorable light, now does he?

On the other hand, he's also made The Queen and the play The Audience, so for a republican he has an awful lot of fascination (not to mention bread-and-butter) with Elizabeth.
He has an obligation to tell the truth, and if that means portraying the BRF in a favorable light (based on reality), then Morgan ought to have sucked it up. He’s a coward, and his interest in the BRF is solely to show how much he loathes them
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  #864  
Old 11-22-2020, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by caethi View Post
Very true. She is incredibly biased. In this, however, I agree with her (and I have great sympathy for the struggles of the real-life Diana). I can hardly bear to watch the character of Charles being portrayed as an immature, self-centered, tortured man. The real-life Charles may have these traits, but it is unlikely that this is the full measure of the man, as is depicted in the series.
But... wasn't he all that? One can be many things and evolve into a more mature, wiser person.

I see a lot of people falling over the not all too favorable light they're being portrayed in and how it's most likely inaccurate but seriously, haven't we seen a lot of dirt and rot come to the forray that is STILL being swept under the rug simply because their privilige protects them? I'm not gonna mention the scandals because they're hardly a mystery anymore.

I loathe Thatcher, but if there is one burn they got right is when Dennis Thatcher roasted the BRF.
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  #865  
Old 11-22-2020, 06:01 PM
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I'll admit to never having seen the series. I've just seen clips. Would still like to watch it. I don't subscribe to Netflix but I might for this.
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  #866  
Old 11-22-2020, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
But... wasn't he all that? One can be many things and evolve into a more mature, wiser person.

I see a lot of people falling over the not all too favorable light they're being portrayed in and how it's most likely inaccurate but seriously, haven't we seen a lot of dirt and rot come to the forray that is STILL being swept under the rug simply because their privilige protects them? I'm not gonna mention the scandals because they're hardly a mystery anymore.

I loathe Thatcher, but if there is one burn they got right is when Dennis Thatcher roasted the BRF.
I think on the one hand, there are the inaccuracies. On the other hand, there are the negative portrayals. They don't always overlap, but when they do you get something like implying the QM had a hand in institutionalizing her nieces out of fear and shame, which is probably libelous in a non-fictional program, and is very unpleasant at the minimum. I think I agree the show should probably use a disclaimer.

However, just like the show is a mix of truth and fiction, doesn't mean that just because Morgan angles negative everything in the show is or was completely inaccurate.

Denis Thatcher was one of the nicer parts of this season, honestly, though given that we haven't seen a PM spouse since Clementine Churchill I'm not sure why they bothered with him other than the Y chromosome, and they wanted to show Thatcher's family/children as similar to the Queen's.
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  #867  
Old 11-22-2020, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I think on the one hand, there are the inaccuracies. On the other hand, there are the negative portrayals. They don't always overlap, but when they do you get something like implying the QM had a hand in institutionalizing her nieces out of fear and shame, which is probably libelous in a non-fictional program, and is very unpleasant at the minimum. I think I agree the show should probably use a disclaimer.

However, just like the show is a mix of truth and fiction, doesn't mean that just because Morgan angles negative everything in the show is or was completely inaccurate.

Denis Thatcher was one of the nicer parts of this season, honestly, though given that we haven't seen a PM spouse since Clementine Churchill I'm not sure why they bothered with him other than the Y chromosome, and they wanted to show Thatcher's family/children as similar to the Queen's.
Lady Dorothy Macmillan (née Cavendish) was actually shown also in Season 2, I think.
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  #868  
Old 11-22-2020, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Empress Merel View Post
But... wasn't he all that? One can be many things and evolve into a more mature, wiser person.

I see a lot of people falling over the not all too favorable light they're being portrayed in and how it's most likely inaccurate but seriously, haven't we seen a lot of dirt and rot come to the forray that is STILL being swept under the rug simply because their privilige protects them? I'm not gonna mention the scandals because they're hardly a mystery anymore.

I loathe Thatcher, but if there is one burn they got right is when Dennis Thatcher roasted the BRF.
I think Charles has definitely matured since his marriage to Diana. He was still fairly young when they married. Of course, none of us knows what he's like in private but from what I've seen of him recently he has certainly come across as a more kind and considerate person than he was back in the '70s - '90s. I think that saying of "with age comes wisdom" applies to Charles.
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  #869  
Old 11-22-2020, 06:54 PM
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Seems that the Royals are not the only ones a bit concerned by the "artistic license"

Widow criticises The Crown over avalanche episode
The wife of Hugh Lindsay, who was killed while skiing with Prince Charles, had asked show not to feature the disaster


https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...box=1606074904
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  #870  
Old 11-22-2020, 07:41 PM
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Apparently some Thatcherite Conservatives or Margaret Thatcher fans were not happy about the Crown Season 4 either, not just on Thatcher's portrayal or Gillian Anderson's acting, but also on how the production team use some fictional narrative and distorted truth to denigrate The Royal Family. This is based on reading some comments in public Facebook Thatcherite politicians' supporters group that I am not part of (I'm looking in from the outside).

Charles Spencer, 9th Earl Spencer have refused The Crown's production team to film at Althorp House, fearing that the audience will believe the fiction as facts. He was interviewed by Alan Alan Titchmarsh on the ITV's Love Your Weekend.

Princess Diana's brother Earl Spencer blasts The Crown
https://www.perthnow.com.au/features...ng-b881728002z

Charles Spencer reveals request he refused from The Crown
Princess Diana's brother is no fan of the show
https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalt...est-the-crown/
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  #871  
Old 11-22-2020, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Seems that the Royals are not the only ones a bit concerned by the "artistic license"

Widow criticises The Crown over avalanche episode
The wife of Hugh Lindsay, who was killed while skiing with Prince Charles, had asked show not to feature the disaster


https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...box=1606074904
That is disgusting.......I didn't think I could hate Morgan more. Based on the description, he used poor Major Lindsay's death as a catalyst for more Charles and Diana. If he had any respect or concern for his widow and daughter, he wouldn't have recreated the avalanche at all.

Quote:
Netflix’s description of the episode reads: “Charles is caught in a deadly avalanche, and he and Diana are prompted to reevaluate their commitment to their troubled marriage.”
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  #872  
Old 11-22-2020, 07:59 PM
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The Crown showed Diana's miserable life since day 1 (or even before she married). But I always thought that Diana and Charles' marriage was a happy one at the beginning. The Crown shows how they dislike each other when she was pregnant, but I do remember pictures of them happy while she was pregnant with William. So which is the truth and which is fiction?
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  #873  
Old 11-22-2020, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by kathia_sophia View Post
The Crown showed Diana's miserable life since day 1 (or even before she married). But I always thought that Diana and Charles' marriage was a happy one at the beginning. The Crown shows how they dislike each other when she was pregnant, but I do remember pictures of them happy while she was pregnant with William. So which is the truth and which is fiction?
It's pretty much on record that both Diana and Charles had major misgivings before the wedding and wanted to call it off. Diana herself said she was so unhappy while she was pregnant with Wiliam that she tried to throw herself down some stairs — the extent of that being true is debatable, but Morgan having her miserably in bed is probably not too far off. There were infamous pictures of them on holiday at the beach while she was still pregnant; they had some happier moments after Will was born, and Diana again said that they were happiest while she was pregnant with Harry (though she knew he was a boy and didn't tell Charles). Then right after Harry was born, it all collapsed.
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  #874  
Old 11-22-2020, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by HereditaryPrincess View Post
I think Charles has definitely matured since his marriage to Diana. He was still fairly young when they married. Of course, none of us knows what he's like in private but from what I've seen of him recently he has certainly come across as a more kind and considerate person than he was back in the '70s - '90s. I think that saying of "with age comes wisdom" applies to Charles.
I defy any person of 70 yoa to say they are the same person as they were at 25, 30, 35 and so on. We all live life, learn, change and grow. A man portrayed as vain, self centered and downright cruel would never have been able to turn the Duchy of Cornwall which barely survived on rents into the mult-million dollar business it now is without the initial help of said tenants.

That, along with the Princes Trust, is an outstanding achievement and for a man of such a character as that depicted by Peter Morton, would be a sheer impossibility unless he suffered from Multiple Personality Disorder and the right personality kept popping up at the right time or place.

Everybody is flawed in some way. It is how we challenge ourselves to be and grow that defines us not the depravity of mind of a screenwriter with a Repubican score to settle.
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  #875  
Old 11-23-2020, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I think on the one hand, there are the inaccuracies. On the other hand, there are the negative portrayals. They don't always overlap, but when they do you get something like implying the QM had a hand in institutionalizing her nieces out of fear and shame, which is probably libelous in a non-fictional program, and is very unpleasant at the minimum. I think I agree the show should probably use a disclaimer.

However, just like the show is a mix of truth and fiction, doesn't mean that just because Morgan angles negative everything in the show is or was completely inaccurate.

Denis Thatcher was one of the nicer parts of this season, honestly, though given that we haven't seen a PM spouse since Clementine Churchill I'm not sure why they bothered with him other than the Y chromosome, and they wanted to show Thatcher's family/children as similar to the Queen's.
And that is exactly the problem, the waters are muddied, what is truth and what is fiction and what is a blend of both.

There are people who will believe everything as fact because they know that some things are factually true.... how would we all like our lives laid bare on a tv programme with a mixture of fact and fiction.
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  #876  
Old 11-23-2020, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I defy any person of 70 yoa to say they are the same person as they were at 25, 30, 35 and so on. We all live life, learn, change and grow. A man portrayed as vain, self centered and downright cruel would never have been able to turn the Duchy of Cornwall which barely survived on rents into the mult-million dollar business it now is without the initial help of said tenants.

That, along with the Princes Trust, is an outstanding achievement and for a man of such a character as that depicted by Peter Morton, would be a sheer impossibility unless he suffered from Multiple Personality Disorder and the right personality kept popping up at the right time or place.

Everybody is flawed in some way. It is how we challenge ourselves to be and grow that defines us not the depravity of mind of a screenwriter with a Repubican score to settle.

Your examples only suggest that Charles is an efficient real estate manager and also a successful philanthropist, which BTW was never in question. But it doesn't tell anything about Charles as a person, a husband, or a father.
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  #877  
Old 11-23-2020, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by caethi View Post
Very true. She is incredibly biased. In this, however, I agree with her (and I have great sympathy for the struggles of the real-life Diana). I can hardly bear to watch the character of Charles being portrayed as an immature, self-centered, tortured man. The real-life Charles may have these traits, but it is unlikely that this is the full measure of the man, as is depicted in the series.
He was then I think Immature, to a degree and he certainly is a tortured self doubting person, and probably a bit more selfish than average because of his postion. But he does have other better qualities.
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  #878  
Old 11-23-2020, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Your examples only suggest that Charles is an efficient real estate manager and also a successful philanthropist, which BTW was never in question. But it doesn't tell anything about Charles as a person, a husband, or a father.
Agreed. His competence in managing his estate was never a question. We know he's good at it. He was raised to be good at it. He, however, wasn't raised to be emotionally fully developed. Like I said, one can be many good things and be many awful things too. No one is perfect and life isn't black and white. His incompetence in his first marriage isn't a secret. The fact that The Crown isn't going to sugarcoat it shouldn't come as a surprise.
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  #879  
Old 11-23-2020, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
It's pretty much on record that both Diana and Charles had major misgivings before the wedding and wanted to call it off. Diana herself said she was so unhappy while she was pregnant with Wiliam that she tried to throw herself down some stairs — the extent of that being true is debatable, but Morgan having her miserably in bed is probably not too far off. There were infamous pictures of them on holiday at the beach while she was still pregnant; they had some happier moments after Will was born, and Diana again said that they were happiest while she was pregnant with Harry (though she knew he was a boy and didn't tell Charles). Then right after Harry was born, it all collapsed.
Quite honestly I don't understand why their trying for a girl after Harry seemed to be an impossibility- Diana was young and was said to have wanted a large family. I think of the Beckhams who tried for a daughter after having a few sons. Diana's mother was angry at Charles when he complained about the second one not being a girl and scolded him(Diana's mother had a child who had died in infancy) for not just being happy the baby was healthy.
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  #880  
Old 11-23-2020, 12:34 PM
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I had to turn off episode 9 when the video of Diana singing that song from Phantom. Is there any truth to that scene? I must have missed that little tidbit back in the day.



While I enjoyed the actor playing Diana in earlier episodes (She nailed the voice and non-verbal mannerisms), she seems to be playing Diana as almost too vulnerable. We know Diana was mercurial, and that she probably needed professional psychological help to manage her various struggles, but it seems that as Diana gets older she is actually being portrayed as more vulnerable, which is not what I would have expected.
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