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  #821  
Old 11-19-2020, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
Now that I've watched a few more episodes, I believe I can give this season a bit more of a favorable review. Discounting all the Diana/Charles saga which I believe was overblown to insinuate bad prince/good princess, once the season got into actually focusing on other subjects such as Thatcher's "Iron Lady" role and its effects on Britain and the Commonwealth's stance on apartheid, it actually got interesting.

I especially thought the episode centering around Michael Fagan was well done as it delved into just what upset the man so seriously that he ended up sitting on the Queen's bed talking with her.

One more episode and I've completed the season.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/a...4-netflix.html

Oh my! The Fagan story was made up! This is what is wrong with this series, the inaccuracies! Please read the NYT article which corrects the historical inaccuracies in each episode.
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  #822  
Old 11-19-2020, 03:19 PM
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Have only watched the first two episodes and doubt I will watch anymore. The production values are wonderful, Olivia Colman is much better in this series, Charles and Phillip I find painful to watch, not acted very well. Gillian Anderson is a wonderful actress. But if I have to see Helena Bonham Carter for another instant, she gets far too much screen time.
And, They just make it so sad. If you watch the real engagement interview of Diana and Charles, their body language was very loving.
Also, although I do believe the young woman playing Diana has done a really wonderful job, her voice is perfect, she overdoes the mannerisms, the clothes are very good, she just isn't convincing. Say what you want about Diana's character, but from the very beginning Diana was luminous and charismatic and graceful. I guess it is always impossible to capture the allure of such women, Marilyn, P.Grace, etc.
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  #823  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
There is foreshadowing (which the show milks as a matter of course) and there is clumsy, badly-done foreshadowing, which this was. I have no idea if Andrew was as bad or as worrying as his modern self at the time of the Falklands, but I'm not taking Morgan as a documentary on it, particularly when this was only done as an appeasement. If he hadn't made the sort of unequivocal condemnation of Andrew that he did ó even divorcing the Queen from him supposedly being her favorite ó he would have faced very inconvenient outrage for the entire show.

The RF are upset because this is not a tabloid article; it's the most expensive program ever made. It has heft. It has reach. It has worldwide positive critical reviews. It's not badly-acted or as a drama, just possibly harmful to the people involved.
They should be upset.. Morgan doesnít care about the truth, he cares about his version of it; if it hurts people, thatís their problem. Iím livid.
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  #824  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/a...4-netflix.html

Oh my! The Fagan story was made up! This is what is wrong with this series, the inaccuracies! Please read the NYT article which corrects the historical inaccuracies in each episode.
The Fagan story may have been fictionalized in order to draw it out for an entire episode but the point is that they actually focused on something that, at the time, was deeply affecting the British people and used Fagan to illustrate that.

I believe it would have made for a far better program if the writers had stuck to the title "The Crown" and focused on the life and times that surrounded the British royal family as representatives of the crown rather than focusing on their personal lives so much. I just keep thinking back to the first season and episodes and the wonderful job John Lithgow did in portraying Winston Churchill.

As the series evolved, it turned more into a family soap opera where the foibles, scandals and the mistakes took precedence over presenting the meat and potatoes of what "The Crown" actually represented at the time.
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  #825  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by evolvingdoors View Post
Maybe it's from point of view, but most of the attacks I have seen on Charles and Camilla in recent two years come from the Harry and Meghan fan base, and those who generally support them because they feel Meghan has been treated unfairly and was not protected by the royal family. This has surged up Diana (which Harry and Meghan has very kindly helped perpetuate ) and her treatment.
Which is funny because Harry himself has once spoken very highly of Camilla and that they all love her.
The attacks Iíve seen have been in Twitter, and for me it has nor been limited to H and M stans, but those who adored Diana. There are a lot of people out there who think Charles, Camilla and the BRF are vile creatures. Of course, the on-line community is a drop in the bucket compared to the general public - I donít think people on social media necessarily represent the public as a whole. I think angry people are the ones who reaction tweet most often, the same way itís angry people who most often call in to radio talk shows. People who hate Charles/Camilla will want to express their feelings, especially in reaction to positive tweets. Those who already love them or feel positive about them wonít necessarily feel that same urge to express themselves. Hence reaction on social media is going to be unbalanced - in favor of the haters
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  #826  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
The attacks Iíve seen have been in Twitter, and for me it has nor been limited to H and M stans, but those who adored Diana. There are a lot of people out there who think Charles, Camilla and the BRF are vile creatures. Of course, the on-line community is a drop in the bucket compared to the general public - I donít think people on social media necessarily represent the public as a whole. I think angry people are the ones who reaction tweet most often, the same way itís angry people who most often call in to radio talk shows. People who hate Charles/Camilla will want to express their feelings, especially in reaction to positive tweets. Those who already love them or feel positive about them wonít necessarily feel that same urge to express themselves. Hence reaction on social media is going to be unbalanced - in favor of the haters
Exactly, I read a lot of republican/anti-monarchist tweet under major news account, some of them let's face it are from the Sussex Squad or Diana superfans. They may make the most noises, but they do not reflect British public view.

Here is a screenshot of a viewer's letter to the Telegraph editor. I know that The Telegraph on most occasion are pro-monarchy and right-leaning libertarian.
Telegraph Letters @LettersDesk
The definitive critique #TheCrown
11:40 PM ∑ Nov 18, 2020∑Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/LettersDesk/stat...41752108437516
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  #827  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frelinghighness View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/a...4-netflix.html

Oh my! The Fagan story was made up! This is what is wrong with this series, the inaccuracies! Please read the NYT article which corrects the historical inaccuracies in each episode.
Fagan was unemployed at the time, along with three million others. Mass unemployment was one of the consequences of the Thatcher government's economic policies. It was quite deliberate.

This does not excuse the inacurracies of the episode of course.
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  #828  
Old 11-19-2020, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
Whilst we don't know what went on behind the scenes, Andrew was a big national hero at the time of the Falklands. It was very, very big news when he came home. Crowds of screaming girls used to go to his public engagements, as if he were the lead singer of the latest boy band.
I swear that I heard a terrible, teenybopper song written about "Andy", from sometime in the 70's, but I just can't remember the proper context or the YouTube video.
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  #829  
Old 11-19-2020, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
Exactly, I read a lot of republican/anti-monarchist tweet under major news account, some of them let's face it are from the Sussex Squad or Diana superfans. They may make the most noises, but they do not reflect British public view.

Here is a screenshot of a viewer's letter to the Telegraph editor. I know that The Telegraph on most occasion are pro-monarchy and right-leaning libertarian.
Telegraph Letters @LettersDesk
The definitive critique #TheCrown
11:40 PM ∑ Nov 18, 2020∑Twitter Web App
https://twitter.com/LettersDesk/stat...41752108437516
This letter was clearly anti-Charles - he’s being extremely sarcastic. I have no idea why they published this.
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  #830  
Old 11-19-2020, 05:35 PM
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It's good old fashioned silly British humour. Maybe it doesn't travel well but it's really not anti the P of W at all. Honest.
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  #831  
Old 11-19-2020, 05:42 PM
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I actually found the letter hilarious.
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  #832  
Old 11-19-2020, 05:48 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post

I believe it would have made for a far better program if the writers had stuck to the title "The Crown" and focused on the life and times that surrounded the British royal family as representatives of the crown rather than focusing on their personal lives so much. I just keep thinking back to the first season and episodes and the wonderful job John Lithgow did in portraying Winston Churchill.

As the series evolved, it turned more into a family soap opera where the foibles, scandals and the mistakes took precedence over presenting the meat and potatoes of what "The Crown" actually represented at the time.
Yes I agree & posted something similar a few days ago. I thought the episode about Michael Shea & CHOGM was far more interesting than interminable melodrama about royal private lives. I was also surprised that very little explanation was given about how Mountbatten came to be in Ireland. Other than a menacing voice trotting out the usual predictable IRA propaganda there was little attempt to explain or provide any context about the troubles.

The 80's were choc a bloc with real drama in the UK. A missed opportunity.
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  #833  
Old 11-19-2020, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The Fagan story may have been fictionalized in order to draw it out for an entire episode but the point is that they actually focused on something that, at the time, was deeply affecting the British people and used Fagan to illustrate that.

I believe it would have made for a far better program if the writers had stuck to the title "The Crown" and focused on the life and times that surrounded the British royal family as representatives of the crown rather than focusing on their personal lives so much. I just keep thinking back to the first season and episodes and the wonderful job John Lithgow did in portraying Winston Churchill.

As the series evolved, it turned more into a family soap opera where the foibles, scandals and the mistakes took precedence over presenting the meat and potatoes of what "The Crown" actually represented at the time.
I totally agree with you. Well said.


It really transformed into a family soap opera. And if it continues like this, then season 5 and 6 will reach new highs (in a bad sense).


However, seasons 1 and 2 of the Crown remain dear to my heart. I really enjoyed seeing Claire Foy and Matt Smith, and it was my first time seeing them act. They impressed me, along with Vanessa Kirby (except for her height since Princess Margaret was shorter than the Queen, Vanessa played a better Princess Margaret than Helena Bonham Carter).
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  #834  
Old 11-19-2020, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post


It's good old fashioned silly British humour. Maybe it doesn't travel well but it's really not anti the P of W at all. Honest.
I definitely get British humor - I adore it! I thought the letter writer was anti-Charles because it seemed he was poking fun at the criticisms of the show (as if the criticisms are unfair and nit picky). I re-read it and now I can’t believe I took it so seriously...I honestly think it’s hilarious, too. It’s actually just my kind of humor!
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  #835  
Old 11-19-2020, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Yes I agree & posted something similar a few days ago. I thought the episode about Michael Shea & CHOGM was far more interesting than interminable melodrama about royal private lives. I was also surprised that very little explanation was given about how Mountbatten came to be in Ireland. Other than a menacing voice trotting out the usual predictable IRA propaganda there was little attempt to explain or provide any context about the troubles.

The 80's were choc a bloc with real drama in the UK. A missed opportunity.
I suspect Morgan just couldnít wait to get to the Charles/Diana years and the other seasons were just prologues. Here is where he can really express his POV (the BRF is awful, Charles in particular) and get attention from even people who didnít watch prior seasons...
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  #836  
Old 11-19-2020, 06:49 PM
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A lot was left out. Mountbatten was upset with Charles because he wanted him to marry his granddaughter Amanda Knatchbull. He was hoping when Amanda came of age, Charles would marry her and she would ultimately be Queen consort and he would be in the bloodlines of future royals. Also Charles had really serious relationships with other women, Davina Sheffield, who looked a lot like Diana, was a serious contender until her ex went to the newspapers. The ill fated Lady Tryon was also left out. And early on Princess Margaret did get along with Diana--in the Crown, she is very dismissive of her.
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  #837  
Old 11-19-2020, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Prinsara View Post
I swear that I heard a terrible, teenybopper song written about "Andy", from sometime in the 70's, but I just can't remember the proper context or the YouTube video.
From this video on Queen Elizabeth II's children (starting from 16:44 to 16:55), apparently Prince Andrew was serenaded by a soppy pop song called "Andy". This pop song was sung by Coleen Nolan (in solo).
https://youtu.be/tMmkwQ7O71Q?t=1004

She is a member of The Nolan Sisters (later The Nolans), an Anglo-Irish pop girl group of singing sisters. Their biggest hit is I'm In the Mood for Dancing

Here is the link to the song, Andy:

Coleen Nolan is now a regular panelist on Loose Women
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  #838  
Old 11-19-2020, 07:00 PM
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There's a lot of recursive, reductionist, "let's all foreshadow until we're sick" in this show. So Andrew was always like he is now, Margaret never liked Diana, etc. To be fair, it's a huge and growing cast and very hard to do changing narratives for everyone, but someone like Edward will almost undoubtedly not get the benefit of his maturity.
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  #839  
Old 11-19-2020, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by AC21091968 View Post
From this video on Queen Elizabeth II's children (starting from 16:44 to 16:55), apparently Prince Andrew was serenaded by a soppy pop song called "Andy". This pop song was sung by Coleen Nolan (in solo).
https://youtu.be/tMmkwQ7O71Q?t=1004

She is a member of The Nolan Sisters (later The Nolans), an Anglo-Irish pop girl group of singing sisters. Their biggest hit is I'm In the Mood for Dancing

Here is the link to the song, Andy:

Coleen Nolan is now a regular panelist on Loose Women
"All the world loves you."

Believe it or not, that's not the video where I heard it! (There was a record store involved in mine.). Which means this song has spread! Gah!

But thank you for finding it, though I'm sure Ms Nolan would prefer to have done this anonymously at this point.
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  #840  
Old 11-19-2020, 07:59 PM
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And the Prime Minister Morgan just decided to skip (despite him having brought Maggie to power with a huge amount of drama).
Again, time limits and I've always considered him a complete fool, but that he didn't even warrant so much as a "Poor Mr Callaghan" line — I've now wound up utterly indignant on his behalf.

How To Kill One's Political Career In Under Three Minutes, btw (Don't Mention The Swimming):
"Crisis? What crisis?"

Not sure if he got the same non-extant treatment in The Audience (I suspect so), and we already saw John Major (though I'm not sure he had lines), but I'd still be interested to see if Morgan could completely ditch him for Tony Blair.
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