Paola, côté jardin - Interview with Queen Paola; Feb. 2022


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Moonmaiden23 said:
I have to disagree. Delphine was raised in a home with parents who were present. She was loved deeply and wanted by the man she knew as her father for her entire childhood.

It was Delphine who rejected the man who WAS her father in every way except biology, in favor of pursuing recognition by a man who had done nothing to deserve the title or contribute to her life except to contribute DNA via an illicit affair with her mother and who was not coincidentally a member of the Belgian RF.

It sounds harsh because it is. All my sympathy is for Philippe, Astrid and Laurent. Very little left for Delphine and her mother.
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Jacques Böel was not her father in any way, except legally, and did not play the role of a parent emotionally. (In fact, had Böel been any kind of a parent to her, she likely would not have pursued Albert, who actually showed her more affection and care for a period, and overall.)

Delphine and her own unstable, not-particularly loved childhood are covered extensively in her own thread and recent documentary, should you wish to read more, but I am afraid your impression is incorrect.
 
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In Delphine's own words there was little warmth between her and Jacques Boël: when she was at his estate she was looked after by the staff until the chauffeur brought her back to her mother, so to say.

Her mother divorced Jacques Boël in 1978 (Delphine was 12) and remarried a British gentleman 1982 (Delphine was 16). So she probably was not close to any father figure in her formative years.

But Philippe and Laurent had no close parental figures either, as they went to the St Andrew Abbey's boarding school in Brugues in their formative years. Also Princess Astrid was sent to a boarding school: the Institut de la Vierge Fidèle in Brussels.

But, as hundreds and hundreds of Belgian boys and girls went to boarding schools in the 1960's: this was normal for "better families" to sent their children away, in the conviction that they will receive the best education and the best preparation fot life.
 
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That is exactly the point. ALbert and Paola were not affectionate parents to their 3 children adn Albert was not a great father to his daughter Delphine. And Delphine has said that her legal father was not affectionate to her either, so it seems completely wrong to ssay that she was "loved deeply" by M Boel.
 
Duc_et_Pair said:
In Delphine's own words there was little warmth between her and Jacques Boël: when she was at his estate she was looked after by the staff until the chauffeur brought her back to her mother, so to say.

Her mother divorced Jacques Boël in 1978 (Delphine was 12) and remarried a British gentleman 1982 (Delphine was 16). So she probably was not close to any father figure in her formative years.

But Philippe and Laurent had no close parental figures either, as they went to the St Andrew Abbey's boarding school in Brugues in their formative years. Also Princess Astrid was sent to a boarding school: the Institut de la Vierge Fidèle in Brussels.

But, as hundreds and hundreds of Belgian boys and girls went to boarding schools in the 1960's: this was normal for "better families" to sent their children away, in the conviction that they will receive the best education and the best preparation fot life.
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Her formative “positive older male figure” was Albert. Not as a father, but the closest thing she had. Especially because he was around so much.

Sending children to boarding school does not mean they have no parental figures in their lives. Even when it is or was done at age 8, most children that age have a very clear impression of who their parents are and how their parents feel about them, and some idea of what is going on at home and whether they were really “sent away”. Plus you also have to go home and spend time with them on holidays and during the summer.

The only exception is if your parents are truly not around, as happened with Prince Philip. Or the Belgian children.
 
boarding school can be difficult for a sensitive child, too or if the wrong one is picked, like iwht P Charles. but most children are Ok with it if they know that their parents are there for them and love them
 
What was the nature of the childhood "illness" that destroyed Albert's relationship with his eldest son?

I don't believe that sending even sensitive children to boarding school is bad parenting. Depending on the institution, it can be a very positive formative experience.

As for Delphine's childhood relationship with her legal father, I stand corrected!
 
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Its not sending to boarding school that is bad parenting.. Its not trying to find the right school or pushing a child to a school that he or she is unhappy with or unsuited to. Charles hated Gordonstoun. It suited some of his relatives but he hated it and was miserable there.

Re Albert it seems that a doctor told him that Phillippe would become ill, if he continued to treat him as he had been treating him.... And Albert, instead of taking that on board, walked away
 
I think Albert's brother would have been a wonderful father but never got the chance. Life can be very unfair.
 
sophie25 said:
I think Albert's brother would have been a wonderful father but never got the chance. Life can be very unfair.
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All three royal siblings grew up to become great parents, none of them seem to have inherited the distant and poor parenting of Albert II, Leopold III or especially Leopold II (whom disinherited all his children).
 
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With regards to Albert, it is worth noting he himself was a tragically abandoned baby who never got the chance to remember his mother at all, even if that wasn’t done deliberately. Aside from the trauma and stress of being a Nazi prisoner and in exile as a young and older kid, perhaps something in him just formed the notion that “giving up” on your kids and abandoning them is what one does. (And perhaps why Delphine mentioning her resemblance to Queen Astrid set him off so badly, it was the last conversation they had for twenty years or so.)

I don’t know much about how Paola grew up, but presumably it was not with the Belgian degree of difficulty. Does she have some kind of explanation, other than being lonely and hurt by her relationship with Albert?
 
I know that she was the last in a family with a lot of children, and that she was born during her parents' middle age.

Her father died when she was very young.
 
Denville said:
boarding school can be difficult for a sensitive child, too or if the wrong one is picked, like iwht P Charles. but most children are Ok with it if they know that their parents are there for them and love them
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Besides, although we often ignore it, schools are actually not in session for many weeks in any given year, so even boarders get a lot of "at-home" time during the school year (not to mention when they occasionally come home on weekends for example, even during the regular term).

Boarding used to be the norm for many upper-class children, most certainly in the UK. It might not be as common in the Continent, but it wasn't completely unusual in Belgium either, as Duc said. And, as far as I understand, I don't think Alberta and Paola's children had specific issues with the schools they attended in the same way as Prince Charles. I would say that was by far not their biggest problem as far as their relationship with their parents is concerned, but maybe I am not sufficiently knowledgeable about it.
 
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I don't believe Philippe or Laurent actually had issues with their schooling itself but rather with the fact that their parents basically washed their hands off them when they were young boys, Philippe might have benefitted from being the "heir" once it was clear that Baudouin and Fabiola weren't going to have children of their own but as much as they loved him, they still weren't his parents and that abandonment must have shaped him a LOT.

He and Laurent took two different routes to deal with it: Philippe became shy and introverted, his brother became rebellious and boisterous.

Weirdly enough both have been quite loyal to their family and to each other, seems like the concept of blood is sacred for them, I don't remember Laurent EVER saying anything remotely bad about Philippe or Astrid (in fact he's never spoken badly about Paola either, not that we have heard of) and his siblings ran to the hospital when he was at the ICU (Astrid was in Saudi Arabia and went to France to get Father Guy Gilbert), while their parents stayed on holidays ¬¬. It also shows in the way they have accepted Delphine, without any kind of fuss, she's blood, she's in. That's it.

For the "all royals were the same back then", I think (for example) GD Jean wasn't as bad towards his own children, neither were King Juan Carlos or King Harald, even if they also had a lot of issues growing up during WW2/post war period.

Albert and Paola were terrible parents. Period.

I think this is a way for both of them (not only Paola) to give their children an apology of sorts plus sharing their story with their grandchildren as well, since all of them are old enough to understand a lot of things now.

The male children learned from their mistakes and became excellent fathers themselves but it took them a longer time to do so, I think they waited until they found a really good partner for life and someone who would be a good mother for their (future) kids, that's why both married much later than Astrid.
 
It seems Prince Philippe and Prince Laurent complained they were "extra tight" handled by teachers and were bullied by classmates. Both Philippe and Laurent did not have the physique and the verbal strength to oppose (it was a Dutch-speaking school and both were primarily Francophone).

Their "colleague" Prince Willem-Alexander was not bullied, his big physique and his apt tongue gave him the upper hand. But in the book Alexander by Renate Rubinstein he had the same complaint about teachters being "extra tight" on him:

Prince Willem-Alexander answers the question why his parents sent him to a boarding school in Wales. Rubinstein assumes that he is not treated normally by teachers in the Netherlands. For fear of "favoring him" (strictly forbidden by the royal couple), the Prince is dealt with extra hard. At least that's what he complains about.

However, that is not the reason to exchange his school in The Hague for the Atlantic College in Llantwit Major in Wales after the fourth year of his Gymnasium. No, that decision had to do with the situation at home: they found each other difficult. Willem-Alexander also denies that he was sent by his parents: "Kijk, ik vond mezelf niet lastig. En mijn ouders vonden zichzelf niet lastig. Maar elkaar vonden we wel lastig." (“Look, I didn't find myself difficult. And my parents didn't find themselves difficult. But we found each other difficult.”)

Parenting is difficult. Even in unsuspected families.
 
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leidi said:
For the "all royals were the same back then", I think (for example) GD Jean wasn't as bad towards his own children, neither were King Juan Carlos or King Harald, even if they also had a lot of issues growing up during WW2/post war period.
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No, but the only-a-few-years younger Carl Gustav, whose father was also suddenly killed while he was a baby and mother subsequently withdrew from her children’s lives, has displayed some similar issues with regards to marrying a beautiful woman, having three nice kids — and then having difficulty being a good husband and parent, even if not to Albert lengths. (Perhaps not living imprisoned and in fear for your life helps.)
 
Did Philippe,Astrid and Laurent have a good relationship with king Baudouin and queen Fabiola?
 
Astrid and Philippe certainly did. It was a warm loving relationship. They were passive easy kids to manage.

Laurent...no. To all the above.
 
:previous: Thank you! How I miss lellobeetle. She was an angel.:cry:
 
So if there was a doctor who said Philippe would get sick, why wasn’t anyone looking after the even more troubled Laurent? When Baudouin and Fabiola couldn’t do it, shouldn’t someone (like a professional) have tried?
 
Prinsara said:
No, but the only-a-few-years younger Carl Gustav, whose father was also suddenly killed while he was a baby and mother subsequently withdrew from her children’s lives, has displayed some similar issues with regards to marrying a beautiful woman, having three nice kids — and then having difficulty being a good husband and parent, even if not to Albert lengths. (Perhaps not living imprisoned and in fear for your life helps.)
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Yes but my point stands, Albert and Paola were a product of their time? Yes but they also made the choice to be bad parents, something many in their generation (including royals) didn't.
 
leidi said:
Yes but my point stands, Albert and Paola were a product of their time? Yes but they also made the choice to be bad parents, something many in their generation (including royals) didn't.
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They were not bad parents. Yes. Little empathy, a chaotic family life but all three had nannies, governesses, were dressed and fed, were educated at the best schools. None of them was abused, witheld nutrition, were not given proper care, were denied holidays, sports clubs or fancy clothing. It was all there for them. So it depends how "bad parents" is defined. For objective, measureable standards, the children of Albert and Paola were exceptionally well looked after. For subjective, unmeasurable standards maybe there was little warmth, or love, ot affection, or distance, whatever. But we can say the same in the case Charles vs Elizabeth & Philip. Were they bad parents too?
 
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leidi said:
Yes but my point stands, Albert and Paola were a product of their time? Yes but they also made the choice to be bad parents, something many in their generation (including royals) didn't.
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Yes, but as does mine that Albert’s not unique. And he and Paola made the very poor choices but there are reasons they made them.

Duc_et_Pair said:
They were not bad parents. Yes. Little empathy, a chaotic family life but all three had nannies, governesses, were dressed and fed, were educated at the best schools. None of them was abused, witheld nutrition, were not given proper care, were denied holidays, sports clubs or fancy clothing. It was all there for them. So it depends how "bad parents" is defined. For objective, measureable standards, the children of Albert and Paola were exceptionally well looked after. For subjective, unmeasurable standards maybe there was little warmth, or love, ot affection, or distance, whatever. But we can say the same in the case Charles vs Elizabeth & Philip. Were they bad parents too?
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The (young) children were left on their own at Christmas because their parents had their own individual plans and couldn’t be bothered to supervise any other arrangements for them. A staff member felt sorry enough to take them home. Even if they were fed and vaguely supervised at the Palace, that is not only the definition of “neglect” but “bad parent”. And something any social worker would want to discuss.

Elizabeth may have been a distant mother, but her children’s Christmases were never once like that.

Again and again, material comfort gets mistaken for emotional sustenance and support.

And also if Philippe and Astrid independently say “we all suffered”, they are not making it up for fun or producing the statement from nowhere.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
They were not bad parents. Yes. Little empathy, a chaotic family life but all three had nannies, governesses, were dressed and fed, were educated at the best schools. None of them was abused, witheld nutrition, were not given proper care, were denied holidays, sports clubs or fancy clothing. It was all there for them. So it depends how "bad parents" is defined. For objective, measureable standards, the children of Albert and Paola were exceptionally well looked after. For subjective, unmeasurable standards maybe there was little warmth, or love, ot affection, or distance, whatever. But we can say the same in the case Charles vs Elizabeth & Philip. Were they bad parents too?
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Not everything is material, of course it is important to provide for your children but what they need the most is love and nurturing, something neither Albert nor Paola did much during their formative years (in fact Albert admitted here that he basically walked away from Philippe).

Philippe and Astrid are both very well heeled people yet they both talk about how they suffered in their childhood for the abandonment of their parents, like Prinsara said, can you imagine leaving them alone at the Palace during Christmas? A time where they basically only wanted to be with their families? How bad was it that one of the palace workers took them home with him/her?

Charles was always with his family during Christmas/summer time, in fact there are many images of them doing a lot of things together in Balmoral/Sandringham, he was never left alone at Buckingham during these times, neither were his siblings, his parents might have been strict and very old fashioned but they were involved in his life and didn't simply go away and left him to his own devices, he also had the Queen Mother and Dickie for him whenever he needed them.
 
leidi said:
Not everything is material, of course it is important to provide for your children but what they need the most is love and nurturing, something neither Albert nor Paola did much during their formative years (in fact Albert admitted here that he basically walked away from Philippe).

Philippe and Astrid are both very well heeled people yet they both talk about how they suffered in their childhood for the abandonment of their parents, like Prinsara said, can you imagine leaving them alone at the Palace during Christmas? A time where they basically only wanted to be with their families? How bad was it that one of the palace workers took them home with him/her?

Charles was always with his family during Christmas/summer time, in fact there are many images of them doing a lot of things together in Balmoral/Sandringham, he was never left alone at Buckingham during these times, neither were his siblings, his parents might have been strict and very old fashioned but they were involved in his life and didn't simply go away and left him to his own devices, he also had the Queen Mother and Dickie for him whenever he needed them.
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There are many images/photos of Albert and Paola with their children too. I don't think it means much, especially considering that royal photo shoots are always staged. I have the impression that we are applying different standards to Albert and Paola than other royal parents who, quite frankly, were not that different. Again, Albert and Paola were just more candid about it.

I don't think Astrid would say for example that she greatly admires her mother and feels a strong connection with her (her own words) if she were such a bad and distant mother. Albert on the other hand admits to having been too strict with his sons nut how was he stricter with his sons than Prince Philip for example?
 
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Mbruno said:
There are many images/photos of Albert and Paola with their children too. I don't think it means much, especially considering that royal photo shoots are always staged. I have the impression that we are applying different standards to Albert and Paola than other royal parents who, quite frankly, were not that different. Again, Albert and Paola were just more candid about it.

I don't think Astrid would say for example that she greatly admires her mother and feels a strong connection with her (her own words) if she were such a bad and distant mother. Albert on the other hand admits to having been too strict with his sons nut how was he stricter with his sons than Prince Philip for example?
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the children have clearly made an effort to forgive their parents and the parents I assume are trying to do better.
Philip was indeed an insenstive father to Charles at least, in many ways. But I have never heard any story that the queen's children were left alone at Christmas so that servants ended up taking them home for some kind of care.
 
I'm sure that Baudouin and Fabiola were very kind towards Philip,Astrid and Laurent as both were very well regarded by the family.
 
Denville said:
the children have clearly made an effort to forgive their parents and the parents I assume are trying to do better.
Philip was indeed an insenstive father to Charles at least, in many ways. But I have never heard any story that the queen's children were left alone at Christmas so that servants ended up taking them home for some kind of care.
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Exactly.
I think marriage and parenthood helped Philippe, Astrid and Laurent heal a lot but you can't turn back time and their parents decided to live their lives as if they had no children (at least for a while) and that kind of behavior must hurt a lot, they had a hard time growing up because of that.
 
Denville said:
Obviously they were but it beggars belief IMO that the 3 children were left alone by Alber and Paola at Xmas.. and youd think that Baud and Fabiola would have them to stay
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Baudoin and Fabiola probably didn't know. They didn't live with them. I don't know when the Christmas incident happened, but the breakdown of the marriage didn't happen overnight and it most likely took the family time to realise what was going on.
I find some comments made in the thread quite puzzling - while Sibylla, Margarethe, Henrik, Elisabeth, Philip were at times distant parents who relied on staff and authoritarian methods of raising their children they did not abandon their children and when time allowed for it they tried to spend as much time possible with their children.
I read a comment made by Astrid (or maybe by Lorentz about Astrid) many years ago that to me says a lot about how the children were brought up and how it affected them. It said that she had to be taught how to love and care for her children, because she had never experienced that from her mother when growing up.
 
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An Ard Ri said:
I'm sure that Baudouin and Fabiola were very kind towards Philip,Astrid and Laurent as both were very well regarded by the family.
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Obviously they were but it beggars belief IMO that the 3 children were left alone by Alber and Paola at Xmas.. and youd think that Baud and Fabiola would have them to stay

leidi said:
Not everything is material, of course it is important to provide for your children but what they need the most is love and nurturing, something neither Albert nor Paola did much during their formative years (in fact Albert admitted here that he basically walked away from Philippe).

P.
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Its a pretty low bar, when the parents are very rich to say that they were not neglected becuase they were fed and sent to good schools and not physically abused. It wasn't difficult for Al and Paola to arrnage care for their children, to give them good food and clothes and so on..

Prinsara said:
So if there was a doctor who said Philippe would get sick, why wasn’t anyone looking after the even more troubled Laurent? When Baudouin and Fabiola couldn’t do it, shouldn’t someone (like a professional) have tried?
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I assume that Phiilippe was in the care of a doctor, and perhaps he confided in hte doctor or the doctor could see that he was close to breakdown or to some kind of illness. Perhaps Laurent didn't happen to see a doctor at that particular juncture.

Prinsara said:
Yes, but as does mine that Albert’s not unique. And he and Paola made the very poor choices but there are reasons they made them.
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what reasons really? THey were unhappy themselves, I suppose but even so, it seems there was a level of ignoring the children that wasn't just bad moods here and there. When told that his child might get sick if he was not more affectionate with him, Albert just walked away.
 
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