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  #641  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:12 PM
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Don't know if we can post to other things but interesting take on the current events by Camilla Tominey on This Morning.

A very very interesting point she makes about the fact that while M&H are speaking out about "unfair press coverage" Harry did basically confirm - to some extent - that the papers reports about Harry and William not being as close are in fact true.
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  #642  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
A very very interesting point she makes about the fact that while M&H are speaking out about "unfair press coverage" Harry did basically confirm - to some extent - that the papers reports about Harry and William not being as close are in fact true.
Yes, the irony of that was not lost on me. It shows how hard it is to pick out what bits are based on fact, and which are completely baseless.
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  #643  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:24 PM
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I don't know what to say about all this.


On one hand, I feel sorry for Meghan and all the harsh criticism she has been enduring until now. But on the other side, speaking publicity about all that, and emotions, and struggles, I don't know...I understand that people without privilegies, people who endured much worse in life, people who struggle to feed their children because of poverty and so on, won't be sympathetic with H&M, because they don't know the real harsh life.


I agree with that, they don't know and they should be careful on what they say and do. But, at the same time, media bullying has to stop, and H&M should use their voices to stop that by any means.


So, summing up. I have mixed feelings about this all. I think that, in the end of the day, they should've, yes fight against the media bullying, but with a different approach...
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  #644  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
This right here!!! MM and Harry have made some bad decisions choosing to do things differently when dealing with the media which has helped bring them to this place. Meghan should never have spoken to VF! Royal gfs stay quiet and don't use their famous boyfriend's to get a magazine cover. This was the start of them acting more like celebrities and less like royals; things are beginning to pile up and it doesn't look good. I pray and hope that Harry and Meghan will eventually learn like Edward and Sophie did that if they want to represent the Queen it's best to do so in a certain way and not make too much of a fuss.
Also please stop using the "r" word or this thread will get locked again.
I think there is a lot of truth about what you say. My fear is, that we will witness a revival of the infamous 1980s-soap-opera-years coming back...!
I was so relieved these trash dramas were well and truly behind this family - but, oh well...
The longer I watch it, the more I come to the conclusion, every time the focus turns more and more away from The Queen who, IMO, keeps being the most important person in the family as long as she lives (while H and M, God bless them, are constitutionally virtually irrelevant), the whole thing becomes a frenzy.
  #645  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Its now clear there's some kind of a cultural gap between how to handle things the British way vs a more American approach. The Sussexes obviously chose the second one , for better of worse.
I'm not really at ease with this kind of over emotive confession. Oh i pretty know some of our members here just love it, calling it "real". Well i call it cringeworthy. And yes some parts of this documentary, were,i'm sorry, cringeworthy.

Oh i'm pretty sure (well at least i hope) that Meghan and Harry meant well, that they are sincere in their duties. The "common touch" is obviously here and yes at some point it was inspiring to see them at work, wondering "wow, maybe they are making a difference after all". Then the interviews came, and all was forgotten ...

What the press, the medias, will keep from this docu, and from this tour : not the charities, not the good work but the emotions dilemma from a highly privilegied couple. Seems unfair ? But it's unfair, and that's how it works. The disturbing thing is that they knew what they were doing, they knew that their work would be overshadowed by their claims, they knew that giving such insight of the tensions inside the BRF would make some waves. So, from a strict royal point of view, where duty comes first, where you have to step aside to enlight the causes you're fighting for, where the "me" barely exists : it's a failure.

I have no doubts the past year has been very, very difficult for the Sussexes. Yes the violence is there, yes classism is there, yes racism is there. But, at the end of the road, and i know it's hard to swallow for some people here, they are still outrageously privilegied people who earn their privileges not by hard work but by birth, by marriage and on the back of an entire Nation. This is how a Royal Family works and that's why any complaint from them, even highly justified, is just unhearable from a very vocal part of the public. That's the terms of the secular pact between the Monarchy and it's people : responsibilities and yes sacrifices. You don't belong to you, you belong to them, simply because the People has the ultimate power to get rid of you.

Meghan is not your average american friend, she's not even a random individual anymore. She's Princess of the UK and NI. I guess the wake up call is just sometimes too hard to handle but counter attacking the american way, again not without reasons, by sueing and crying publicly, is not a good method with the british press and public. At all.
Harry should know better.

It's also possible to lose the stiff upper lip in private (with friends and family) but still maintain it in public.

I haven't seen the documentary so I can only rely on what's been reported but... the focus should have been on the tour itself, Harry & Meghan's work, the people & causes they are trying to help, and NOTHING ELSE. That's why the British government sent them to Africa in the first place.

IMO it's like any other workplace. When I'm at work I'm on "show," my best behavior, etc. I can't say things or do things in front of the public that I can say or do in private with my friends, family, or even with my coworkers in the break room or a meeting room.

I like Harry & Meghan -their hearts are in the right place and they have very good reasons to be unhappy with the media -but this interview was a BIG mistake on their part.

Harry is taking a page from his mother's book and appealing to the public for sympathy. But IMO a documentary about a government-funded working tour is NOT the right time or place.
  #646  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
My thoughts on the documentary run along two parallel lines. On the one hand, I came away with a huge amount of real compassion for Meghan--which I already had, but I really, really felt for her. She obviously had no idea what she was getting in to, and equally obviously still has no idea where or why she got off on the wrong foot. As a side note, I remember when Harry and Meghan announced their engagement, there was lots of discussion on this forum with some of us wondering if she really had grasped what she was getting into, and there were many responses along the lines of she's an intelligent woman, she's not stupid, she's a professional, etc., etc. The concerns were valid, clearly.

I found that I had much less sympathy for Harry. I am very puzzled as to why Meghan and Harry thought that talking about all of these personal things was a good idea, and what they expected the end result to be. When you put information out into the public arena, it is all too easy to lose control of the narrative. Harry of all people should know that. If the idea was to garner sympathy from the masses, then I suppose mission accomplished. But both of them put out details, emotions, and on Harry's part, insights into the private relationships of the family that are no one else's business, but are now out in the public domain to be picked over, discussed, criticized and mocked. And Harry did that without William's consent or foreknowledge, which is an egregious breach of trust in my book.

While they both discussed their work on the SA tour, what the documentary will be remembered for is the personal stuff, the vulnerabilities, the emotional pain, the anger. It's another decision from the Sussexes that shows they are not thinking long term or strategically, it's all emotion. In a lot of ways, it does seem very Panorama 2.0 to me.

I also think that Harry might want to rethink his so called friendship with Tom Bradby, because I doubt either Harry or Meghan would have been so unguarded with anyone else, and I doubt very much if the end results of the documentary are going to serve the Sussexes well in the long run. It is just feeding in to what is becoming the perpetual cycle of drama attached to the Sussexes.


Excellent post, I also remember the earlier posts, I was one of those who commented on the royal protocol etc that Meghan would need to become aware of. I was heavily criticised , as posters told me she was smart, clever, had her own career, hadn't sat about waiting for her prince, she was going to breathe fresh air into the royal family. My comments were made after years of following the royal family, and had nothing to do with Meghans background.

I also think she took on too much too quick, she wanted to show she could do the job, just on here a few weeks ago posters were raving about how Meghan had continued to work during her maternity leave, how great she was for doing that, comparisons were being made. According to posters on here she was doing everything herself, they turned her into superwoman, pressure in itself. Maternity leave is about preparing for birth and the follow up. It is about resting.

There has been a great deal of negative press, some of the criticism was justified, other was unfair.

I do have sympathy for both of them but I think she lost goodwill when she said her life was an existence. She had just left people living in real poverty, limbless children.

There are issues, her life isnt easy just now, but I think she should have been more careful with her choice of words.

Time out away from the limelight is a start , they also need to find a way to work with the media. They need the media as much as the media needs them so it is in everybodys interest to make it work.

I do not claim to have the answer to that one, but things need to change.
  #647  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The attacks on Meghan has been absolutely “relentless.” She didn’t expect that and she probably thought the family she married into and their aides would help deal with it. Instead, there’s been nothing but pure silence from Buckingham Palace, Clarence House and Kensington Palace. They left her to be eaten alive by the outside forces and has given them, and folks on social media, the energy to do and say exactly what they want about Meghan.

Now folks are mad that Meghan is upset over the smear campaign and that Harry chose to hit back in his statement. Basically the abused are being abused twice over.
Yes, they should just shut up and be happy they have money and titles and not complain about the lies and racism. Bury all the hurt and unease. Let it fester and only speak about it in hushed whispers to each other. Don't let the public see that you are human or vulnerable. It messes with the mystique of royalty.
  #648  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Not that old story again, please! Here the evil institution of the mighty monarchy and its intrigues and there a poor, innocent little girl, "eaten alive". as you put it.
From the very moment it was announced that Meghan was pregnant, the media and people on social media lost their damn minds. They threw Meghan in the air, knocked her back in with a 2 by 4, threw her in the stands and muffed her in the head while she was pregnant and after giving birth to Archie.

The royal family has not done one thing to come to her defense. Not one thing. They have sat on their hands and allowed this smear campaign to fester and spread. I said this stuff was getting out of hand from the very beginning. Go back and look at my posts. I said this mess was getting out of control and I was told by my friends on these forums that what we were witnessing was just due to the silly summer season, because the royal family were on summer break and the press just needed to fill their columns with something. That’s how it was dismissed.

No one was thinking about the effects this smear campaign was having on Meghan and Harry. Not too many people were saying, “gee, I hope Harry and Meghan are okay.” Now people have the audacity to be upset at Harry and Meghan for being upset about the abuse they have suffered in the hands of the press. That takes the cake.

Look,
The British Royal Family and their palace aides better step in and stop this smear campaign from snowballing. Or the consequences could effect the Sussexes marriage and Meghan’s role within the “Firm.” Do something now, before something tragic happens.
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  #649  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:36 PM
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I do feel bad for the Sussex’s. I just don’t think playing the victim card helps. It just brings about more drama. I think they need time away to recharge.i think Meghan could learn a lot from Camilla. She survived the press.

I highly doubt that “the Firm” is going to issue a statement. They would of done it by now. I wonder what’s going on behind the scenes. Could senior royals make them take time off?
  #650  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightsky View Post
I do feel bad for the Sussex’s. I just don’t think playing the victim card helps. It just brings about more drama. I think they need time away to recharge.i think Meghan could learn a lot from Camilla. She survived the press.

I highly doubt that “the Firm” is going to issue a statement. They would of done it by now. I wonder what’s going on behind the scenes. Could senior royals make them take time off?
That’s just it. They’re not playing the victim card. They are the victims. Victims of a smear campaign. Downplaying the campaign isn’t helping. It’s just give people the license to continue abusing them.
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  #651  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
That’s just it. They’re not playing the victim card. They are the victims. Victims of a smear campaign. Downplaying the campaign isn’t helping. It’s just give people the license to continue abusing them.
They are playing the victim card for the public. This comes off as poor me when others have already stated many royals, especially women, have had it much worse. All Harry and Meghan have done is stoke the fire and it will blaze up again and things will get worse. I admit they have had unfair bad press, but just like Sarah Ferguson they are their own worse enemy. People like Piers Morgan etc. don't give a damn if your sad or cry in public; they'll just make more money off of it. Act strong in public and behind the scenes fight back.
I remember watching a documentary on Diana which mentioned the Queen complained to the press about their treatment of Diana back in the early 80's....and nothing changed. The same will happen now only Meghan and Harry now have the label of playing the "woe is me" card.
  #652  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO View Post
I don’t get these lines of thinking. The Cambridges and Sussexes promote a mental health campaign yet we want them to do the opposite of what they encourage? Also when someone of privilege takes their life the first thing people say is “I wish they spoke up! Everyone hurts!” and yet when they do that privilege is thrown in their face and they are told to suck it up and deal. Dangerous message.
Very much reminds me of the poem "Richard Cory" by Edward Arlington Robinson. https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poe...2/richard-cory.

Harry has always worn his emotions on his sleeve and has been praised for it over the years with watching him with children, speaking at opening the Invictus Games, reuniting with Daphne Dunne in Australia among others that don't come to mind right now. Its his nature. Its also his nature to emote when things adversely affect him and his family. To emote and be praised for it when its positive and then keep that "stiff upper lip" about the negatives is almost like having a split personality. Which one is better? Which one do I use in this situation. That's a huge mental conundrum in my book.

I also thing it is very possible that the "personal and human factor" presented by Tom Bradby in the interview (mind you... I've not seen the entire interview as of yet) also underlines for all to see that even when things are are so negative that it sinks the human psyche to the bottom of the barrel, it doesn't have to affect their focus of who they are and exactly what they are there for (the engagements in SA). Its exhibiting the "keep calm and carry on" modus operandi that the BRF is adept at doing. The Queen doesn't call in sick with a cold on the day of the State Opening of Parliament. Andrew doesn't slink away into a hole somewhere because he's been involved in a media crap storm about his personal life. With this interview, we not only see a very successful SA tour but also get insight into the mental issues that the Sussexes are dealing with at this time. Its called in depth reporting if I remember right.

They are human after all.
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  #653  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
That’s just it. They’re not playing the victim card. They are the victims. Victims of a smear campaign. Downplaying the campaign isn’t helping. It’s just give people the license to continue abusing them.
Do you really think there’s a conspiracy in the British press against Meghan and Harry?

You’re a long time royal watcher and remember the dark days when Catherine and her family were attacked on a daily basis.
  #654  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinking View Post
And if they were to do that, the same people would say, they preach about mental heath and speaking up, but don't apply it to themselves. They are hypocrite, like they did when it was about the environment and climate change.
damned if you do and damned if you don't
There is nothing to stop them from getting help for their issues, they can afford the best mental helath support.. They can have therapy.. they have family and friends to help them.... They don't need to take up a programme which is supposed to be about their work, with complaints that they have problems
  #655  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XeniaCasaraghi View Post
They are playing the victim card for the public. This comes off as poor me when others have already stated many royals, especially women, have had it much worse. All Harry and Meghan have done is stoke the fire and it will blaze up again and things will get worse. I admit they have had unfair bad press, but just like Sarah Ferguson they are their own worse enemy. People like Piers Morgan etc. don't give a damn if your sad or cry in public; they'll just make more money off of it. Act strong in public and behind the scenes fight back.
I remember watching a documentary on Diana which mentioned the Queen complained to the press about their treatment of Diana back in the early 80's....and nothing changed. The same will happen now only Meghan and Harry now have the label of playing the "woe is me" card.
You’re so right. Other senior royal women in the family have had a racist, sexist and xenophobic smear campaign launched against them.

I respect a lot of you guys on these royal forums, but y’all really need to wake up and smell the tea leaves brewing. Wake up and pull the wool from off your eyes and realize The Duchess of Sussex is going through something no other member of the royal family have gone through. This is entirely different.
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  #656  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
There is nothing to stop them from getting help for their issues, they can afford the best mental helath support.. They can have therapy.. they have family and friends to help them.... They don't need to take up a programme which is supposed to be about their work, with complaints that they have problems
They're also advocates for mental health. Sometimes it takes courage to speak up about mental issues and far easier to sweep them under the carpet or hide them away so nobody knows what one is going through. With an active advocacy to speak out and start a conversation, Harry and Meghan are practicing what they preach in my book.
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  #657  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Diana after her divorce was in essence a private citizen.
Err , no she was not.. she was the Mother of a future King - The Sussexes are parents to a mere Mr [at their own insistence]...
  #658  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:23 PM
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Several royal commentators and reporters weigh in on the Sussex documentary.

Quote:
Royal commentator Phil Dampier, who wrote 'Royally Suited' about Harry and Meghan's romance, said senior royals 'from the Queen down' are concerned and branded their comments in their new ITV documentary 'very serious'.

Jonny Dymond, the BBC's royal correspondent, said: 'I think they (the royal family) will be pretty horrified actually.'

While royal commentator Penny Junor described the couple's actions as a 'big mistake'.
Read more: Royal experts say everyone 'from the Queen down are very worried' about the direction 'divisive' Meghan Markle and Prince Harry are taking as they give their verdicts on extraordinary ITV interviews
  #659  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post

From the very moment it was announced that Meghan was pregnant, the media and people on social media lost their damn minds. They threw Meghan in the air, knocked her back in with a 2 by 4, threw her in the stands and muffed her in the head while she was pregnant and after giving birth to Archie.

The royal family has not done one thing to come to her defense. Not one thing. They have sat on their hands and allowed this smear campaign to fester and spread. I said this stuff was getting out of hand from the very beginning. Go back and look at my posts. I said this mess was getting out of control and I was told by my friends on these forums that what we were witnessing was just due to the silly summer season, because the royal family were on summer break and the press just needed to fill their columns with something. That’s how it was dismissed.

No one was thinking about the effects this smear campaign was having on Meghan and Harry. Not too many people were saying, “gee, I hope Harry and Meghan are okay.” Now people have the audacity to be upset at Harry and Meghan for being upset about the abuse they have suffered in the hands of the press. That takes the cake.

Look,
The British Royal Family and their palace aides better step in and stop this smear campaign from snowballing. Or the consequences could effect the Sussexes marriage and Meghan’s role within the “Firm.” Do something now, before something tragic happens.
Well post tour- it started with all the criticism of the exorbitant cost of Meghan's tour wardrobe. Her wardrobe was filled with expensive, high end and non-British designers. Everyone knew that the press right up to that point had been criticizing Meghan's lack of use of British designers and the abundance of expensive forever designers in her closet. Instead of using the tour, to deflect that (like Meghan BRILLIANTLY did in South Africa!), they only added fuel to the press's fire.

Then there was the ridiculous baby shower fiasco in New York. There is nothing wrong with Meghan having an American Baby shower but the execution of it was all wrong. It was supposed to be a "private" even yet we saw photos of Meghan's celebrity friends coming and going and we found out how much the venue cost and the countless Instagram photos of the food and pastries..etc. Now there is nothing wrong with having nice baby shower. However a truly private one would have posts on IG from guests, no knowledge of where the venue was, and no photos of guests coming and going. Again the media was given food for criticism..

The mysticism surrounding Archie's birth, baptism, and godparents.
The couple knew the public was looking forward to this and instead of following the route of Duchess of Cambridge or the Countess of Wessex there were back and forth games played with the couple.
Also concerning Archie's godparents- how is it the Duchess can go to Wimbledon with her "private" friends and be photographed yet Archie's grandparents cannot be revealed in a photograph?

Meghan's been in the company of her old friends from school as well her celebrity friends. I am sure she has received comfort from them.
So this speaking out "no one has asked if I am ok!" is false. I am also sure the Duchess of Cambridge has earlier offered support.

However it is hard to be supportive when the person is pushing away support and advice and wanting to do their own thing as this couple has done.

Sorry they get no sympathies from me.
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  #660  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:49 PM
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Only to confirm what I’ve thought all along about where Meghan’s priorities are, Victoria Arbiter says the interview has been well received in the US with Americans being ‘outraged’ over Meghan’s ‘treatment’ in the press.

The response in Britain has been markedly different. The Sussex documentary hasn’t been well received at all.

The problem is America isn’t a realm, they don’t have a say over our royal family
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