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  #601  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeT View Post

Were the Queen & the palace onboard with relentless bullying of a pregnant woman? What the palace should be concerned with now is that the public sees there has been more support & protection for other members, but not a recent postpartum mum.
I can't imagine the Queen being on board, but they live and die by "Never Complain, Never Explain.It's their way of life. Unfortunately, as DoS has learned, that's a very hard way to live. Plus, putting out a statement might have made things even worse.
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  #602  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:12 AM
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I just saw the documentary. Wow. Just wow. I have always respected Meghan - she has always shown herself to be passionate. But now, I have more admiration for her. She calls a spade a spade, and isn't afraid to articulate the utter truth. Prince Harry is certainly punching above his weight!

She's is absolutely right - the "stiff upper lip" may be the accepted way of life in Britain, but the toll it takes on one's mental and physical health is appalling. I applaud her for standing up for herself, for Harry and for their family, and for calling out the British Media, who are the lowest of lows. And when she thanked the journalist for asking if she's ok - that was a VERY powerful message that she has conveyed.

She made it real, and called the media for what they did - justifying their bullying. Since when is lying about someone to bully them ever justifiable. Well done Meghan!
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  #603  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:30 AM
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Stiff upper Lip is not only the BRF, it's part of the British culture and has been forever.
If Meghan can't cope with it, well, British culture won't change for her.
Opening up about it will not help.
The only thing that will help, very long term, is keep your head down and put in the hard work. Be friendly and keep your personal stuff to yourself.
As hard as it sounds, if Meghan is unable to do so, this is not going to end well, either for herself, her marriage or her position. From the beginning, a massive miscalculation on every level.
  #604  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EllieCat View Post
I'm with those who believe the Sussexes should not be airing their feelings to the press, no matter how hard things are – it will only make things worse. And of course Meghan is American and has not been brought up the same way. I have nothing against Meghan, she appears to be a lovely woman, inside and out, but she just wasn't prepared. Even with her level of 'celebrity' which let's face it was pretty low compared to the so-called A-list, has not prepared her for the depth of vitriol she (and Harry) have faced. I feel for them, I really do, but I believe they're only making things worse for themselves. Let's not forget other members of the BRF, especially the Yorks, have had knives thrown at them from all directions; it's not just the Sussexes. It's a part – a terrible part (and it shouldn't happen) – of being part of the RF. And it will always be there; there's no escaping.
+1
She just was not ready and even admitted that she did not listen/believe her British friends who told her. I think Harry really failed her because she truly believed that the coverage would be "fair". In what world was that going to happen? As sad as it is, she needs to take a page out of Queen Letizia's book... Just do your thing.

I think they should have taken out those very personal discussions from an otherwise very interesting documentary.
  #605  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:47 AM
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i watched the documentary. to me, it looked like a reality show on H&M and a PR campaign pro-them disguised in a documentary about the situation of africa.

meghan finishes the documentary answering to tom brady's question on what is in most people's minds of 'you have privilege, you have a great platform to make change happen, etc, yet you are complaining'. meghan answers 'yes, as long as it is fair'.

everyone in the western culture will use commonly the phrase 'life isn't fair'. and the truth is that it is not fair, for anyone. we all face criticism, we all face scrutiny. meghan does, joe bloggs does. the difference between meghan and joe blogg's scrutiny is that meghan's is on a larger scale - and that comes with the huge privilege she has going hand in hand.

these two need to stop mopping, stop tutting their own horns and shut up and put their heads down to work. that is how respect is earned, not by lawsuits, not by emotional confessions, not by private birts and private christenings, not by hypocritical, incoherent actions.
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  #606  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:10 AM
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So the solution is put up with racist attacks and have your child called a monkey? This is part of the slag and everyone is overlooking it because the critics don't want to face inconvenient truths? The Sussexes want to do go work but the media has not the right to manufacture stories and egg on disgruntled relatives and certain resentful elements of the population.

Good for the Sussexes to take the time off - six weeks of family time. Family is Doria for Thanksgiving and Christmas with the BRF. (Note the Markles are left out of that equation and rightly so; they would see it as an opportunity to cash in.) Sandringham at Christmas should be interesting this year. The Sussexes and senior royals may do a sit down to see how all parties can hash this out going forward and how to work together, offering support. Having the Sussexes divorce and call it a day is a bad look all around.
  #607  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
Stiff upper Lip is not only the BRF, it's part of the British culture and has been forever.
If Meghan can't cope with it, well, British culture won't change for her.
Opening up about it will not help.
The only thing that will help, very long term, is keep your head down and put in the hard work. Be friendly and keep your personal stuff to yourself.
As hard as it sounds, if Meghan is unable to do so, this is not going to end well, either for herself, her marriage or her position. From the beginning, a massive miscalculation on every level. Maybe Harry - or both - decided to rush everything because they thought backed up by marriage and title things would be easier with the press, Harry did not want another Chelsey scenario. Well, it has not worked out either.
...Keeping a stiff upper lip can damage health...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EHW2MUfX0AsXkKY.jpg

https://youtu.be/GEUoV7zJ8R0
  #608  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:34 AM
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Most of the posters and lurkers here would be happy if it was possible to get through one discussion about the Sussex couple *WITHOUT* a group of posters biting each other's heads of.

Note that several of you have received a 4-week suspension not too long ago. The next step is a permanent ban from this forum.

If you can not behave yourself towards other posters you are advised not to participate in this forum at all.
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  #609  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:35 AM
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So William said the same thing? To the press- the internet is not your friend.
  #610  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:44 AM
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Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the ITV documentary it is all a very entertaining soap opera voluntarily served up by the [Edit Mod: Duke and Duchess of Sussex]:

https://twitter.com/re_dailymail/sta...243832320?s=12
  #611  
Old 10-21-2019, 06:16 AM
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I have no doubt H&M are under pressure and are not enjoying the negative publicity that they have had to endure for the last year or so. But is sharing your "pain" publicly really going to solve anything?

Is it not better to just focus on the causes you are committed to, and work to make a real difference to those causes? They are in the fortunate position of having a great platform in "The Firm", the financial resources, the ability to build a top class team around them, have access to amazing charitable entrepreneurs like the PoW. They are in the fortunate position that they can afford to not care about what the media has to say and let their work speak for them. They don't face elections every 4-5 years or are in the direct line of succession and therefore, have to be too conscience of opinion polls. This approach has worked very well for Anne, and frankly, Charles too has turned public opinion around in the last 20 years.
  #612  
Old 10-21-2019, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlota View Post
i watched the documentary. to me, it looked like a reality show on H&M and a PR campaign pro-them disguised in a documentary about the situation of africa.

That is actually one of the main criticism they are getting , i.e. using their very important work in Africa, which should be the focus , to make a TV drama about themselves and using the media to send messages to other family members . Wrong in all counts.
  #613  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:08 AM
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Its now clear there's some kind of a cultural gap between how to handle things the British way vs a more American approach. The Sussexes obviously chose the second one , for better of worse.
I'm not really at ease with this kind of over emotive confession. Oh i pretty know some of our members here just love it, calling it "real". Well i call it cringeworthy. And yes some parts of this documentary, were,i'm sorry, cringeworthy.

Oh i'm pretty sure (well at least i hope) that Meghan and Harry meant well, that they are sincere in their duties. The "common touch" is obviously here and yes at some point it was inspiring to see them at work, wondering "wow, maybe they are making a difference after all". Then the interviews came, and all was forgotten ...

What the press, the medias, will keep from this docu, and from this tour : not the charities, not the good work but the emotions dilemma from a highly privilegied couple. Seems unfair ? But it's unfair, and that's how it works. The disturbing thing is that they knew what they were doing, they knew that their work would be overshadowed by their claims, they knew that giving such insight of the tensions inside the BRF would make some waves. So, from a strict royal point of view, where duty comes first, where you have to step aside to enlight the causes you're fighting for, where the "me" barely exists : it's a failure.

I have no doubts the past year has been very, very difficult for the Sussexes. Yes the violence is there, yes classism is there, yes racism is there. But, at the end of the road, and i know it's hard to swallow for some people here, they are still outrageously privilegied people who earn their privileges not by hard work but by birth, by marriage and on the back of an entire Nation. This is how a Royal Family works and that's why any complaint from them, even highly justified, is just unhearable from a very vocal part of the public. That's the terms of the secular pact between the Monarchy and it's people : responsibilities and yes sacrifices. You don't belong to you, you belong to them, simply because the People has the ultimate power to get rid of you.

Meghan is not your average american friend, she's not even a random individual anymore. She's Princess of the UK and NI. I guess the wake up call is just sometimes too hard to handle but counter attacking the american way, again not without reasons, by sueing and crying publicly, is not a good method with the british press and public. At all.
Harry should know better.
  #614  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post
Its now clear there's some kind of a cultural gap between how to handle things the British way vs a more American approach. The Sussexes obviously chose the second one , for better of worse.
I'm not really at ease with this kind of over emotive confession. Oh i pretty know some of our members here just love it, calling it "real". Well i call it cringeworthy. And yes some parts of this documentary, were,i'm sorry, cringeworthy.

Oh i'm pretty sure (well at least i hope) that Meghan and Harry meant well, that they are sincere in their duties. The "common touch" is obviously here and yes at some point it was inspiring to see them at work, wondering "wow, maybe they are making a difference after all". Then the interviews came, and all was forgotten ...

What the press, the medias, will keep from this docu, and from this tour : not the charities, not the good work but the emotions dilemma from a highly privilegied couple. Seems unfair ? But it's unfair, and that's how it works. The disturbing thing is that they knew what they were doing, they knew that their work would be overshadowed by their claims, they knew that giving such insight of the tensions inside the BRF would make some waves. So, from a strict royal point of view, where duty comes first, where you have to step aside to enlight the causes you're fighting for, where the "me" barely exists : it's a failure.

I have no doubts the past year has been very, very difficult for the Sussexes. Yes the violence is there, yes classism is there, yes racism is there. But, at the end of the road, and i know it's hard to swallow for some people here, they are still outrageously privilegied people who earn their privileges not by hard work but by birth, by marriage and on the back of an entire Nation. This is how a Royal Family works and that's why any complaint from them, even highly justified, is just unhearable from a very vocal part of the public. That's the terms of the secular pact between the Monarchy and it's people : responsibilities and yes sacrifices. You don't belong to you, you belong to them, simply because the People has the ultimate power to get rid of you.

Meghan is not your average american friend, she's not even a random individual anymore. She's Princess of the UK and NI. I guess the wake up call is just sometimes too hard to handle but counter attacking the american way, again not without reasons, by sueing and crying publicly, is not a good method with the british press and public. At all.
Harry should know better.
Well put, Nico.
  #615  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico View Post

I have no doubts the past year has been very, very difficult for the Sussexes. Yes the violence is there, yes classism is there, yes racism is there. But, at the end of the road, and i know it's hard to swallow for some people here, they are still outrageously privilegied people who earn their privileges not by hard work but by birth, by marriage and on the back of an entire Nation. This is how a Royal Family works and that's why any complaint from them, even highly justified, is just unhearable from a very vocal part of the public. That's the terms of the secular pact between the Monarchy and it's people : responsibilities and yes sacrifices. You don't belong to you, you belong to them, simply because the People has the ultimate power to get rid of you.
Excellent post, Nico.

When rich, enormously privileged people whine about how difficult they have it, it is hard for the man in the street to empathize.
The response is often to point to the door.

And in the long run, these emotional outpourings don't serve anyone well (Panorama, Dimbleby interview?)

Prince Philip once remarked that he has never talked about his family, and at the end of the day, he has the public respect.
  #616  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:53 AM
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My thoughts on the documentary run along two parallel lines. On the one hand, I came away with a huge amount of real compassion for Meghan--which I already had, but I really, really felt for her. She obviously had no idea what she was getting in to, and equally obviously still has no idea where or why she got off on the wrong foot. As a side note, I remember when Harry and Meghan announced their engagement, there was lots of discussion on this forum with some of us wondering if she really had grasped what she was getting into, and there were many opposing responses along the lines of she's an intelligent woman, she's not stupid, she's a professional, etc., etc. The concerns were valid, clearly.

I found that I had much less sympathy for Harry. I am very puzzled as to why Meghan and Harry thought that talking about all of these personal things was a good idea, and what they expected the end result to be. When you put information out into the public arena, it is all too easy to lose control of the narrative. Harry of all people should know that. If the idea was to garner sympathy from the masses, then I suppose mission accomplished. But both of them put out details, emotions, and on Harry's part, insights into the private relationships of the family that are no one else's business, but are now out in the public domain to be picked over, discussed, criticized and mocked. And Harry did that without William's consent or foreknowledge, which is an egregious breach of trust in my book.

While they both discussed their work on the SA tour, what the documentary will be remembered for is the personal stuff, the vulnerabilities, the emotional pain, the anger. It's another decision from the Sussexes that shows they are not thinking long term or strategically, it's all emotion. In a lot of ways, it does seem very Panorama 2.0 to me.

I also think that Harry might want to rethink his so called friendship with Tom Bradby, because I doubt either Harry or Meghan would have been so unguarded with anyone else, and I doubt very much if the end results of the documentary are going to serve the Sussexes well in the long run. It is just feeding in to what is becoming the perpetual cycle of drama attached to the Sussexes.
  #617  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curryong View Post
The sniping of the tabloid press at Meghan began long long before Archie's birth. It began when Harry and Meghan were dating and has continued ever since.
Kate had about a decade of that , Camilla even longer .


Harry and Meghan have a problem with messaging , they often come across as word salad preachers , meaning a lot of hashtaggy buzzwords but not much behind it . They also tend to use their causes to up themselves by lecturing down from their ivory tower while doing the exact opposit of what they preach . The eco warrior flying private jets was such a thing . I don't thing it would have exploded into what it became if Harry hadn't done that barefoot speech at a conference attended by filthy rich people . And now they've visited African countries with poverty and health care issues and used that as a back drop to complain about how hard their hyper priviledged lives are . It's tone deaf .
  #618  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by akina21 View Post
Kate had about a decade of that , Camilla even longer .


Harry and Meghan have a problem with messaging , they often come across as word salad preachers , meaning a lot of hashtaggy buzzwords but not much behind it . They also tend to use their causes to up themselves by lecturing down from their ivory tower while doing the exact opposit of what they preach . The eco warrior flying private jets was such a thing . I don't thing it would have exploded into what it became if Harry hadn't done that barefoot speech at a conference attended by filthy rich people . And now they've visited African countries with poverty and health care issues and used that as a back drop to complain about how hard their hyper priviledged lives are . It's tone deaf .
I agree. One minute we were seeing footage of poor little mites living in poverty with limbs missing and families in shanty towns under the daily threat of physical /sexual violence then Meghan stands there saying that her life has become an 'existence'. I found their whole attitude appalling especially bearing in mind the enviroment they were in. I really do think that most people will be thinking now that they are perhaps better off leaving public life behind if it is making them so miserable. No wants to listen to rich and privileged people moaning all the time. I also wouldn't be surprised if this programme was done on purpose to set the groundwork for an exit from royal life abd the UK as I can't see any other reason for doing it.
  #619  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
Excellent post, Nico.

When rich, enormously privileged people whine about how difficult they have it, it is hard for the man in the street to empathize.
The response is often to point to the door.

And in the long run, these emotional outpourings don't serve anyone well (Panorama, Dimbleby interview?)

Prince Philip once remarked that he has never talked about his family, and at the end of the day, he has the public respect.
I don’t get these lines of thinking. The Cambridges and Sussexes promote a mental health campaign yet we want them to do the opposite of what they encourage? Also when someone of privilege takes their life the first thing people say is “I wish they spoke up! Everyone hurts!” and yet when they do that privilege is thrown in their face and they are told to suck it up and deal. Dangerous message.
  #620  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akina21 View Post
Kate had about a decade of that , Camilla even longer .


Harry and Meghan have a problem with messaging , they often come across as word salad preachers , meaning a lot of hashtaggy buzzwords but not much behind it . They also tend to use their causes to up themselves by lecturing down from their ivory tower while doing the exact opposit of what they preach . The eco warrior flying private jets was such a thing . I don't thing it would have exploded into what it became if Harry hadn't done that barefoot speech at a conference attended by filthy rich people . And now they've visited African countries with poverty and health care issues and used that as a back drop to complain about how hard their hyper priviledged lives are . It's tone deaf .
Quote:
When rich, enormously privileged people whine about how difficult they have it, it is hard for the man in the street to empathize.
The response is often to point to the door.
good points, both. these are my thoughts also.
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