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  #521  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:22 AM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
As we know all these countries are completely independent of Britain and the crown. Just because they choose to be a member of the Commonwealth doesn’t give the royals standing.

Plus the human rights records in many of these countries is appalling. In my opinion it makes more sense to live and work in a realm where the Queen is actually the head of state than in a random African republic.
If I understood it correctly, he didn’t speak of a random African republic, but specifically of the possibility of living in Cape Town, which, to be honest, is the closest it gets to a Western European lifestyle in subsaharan Africa probably.

I also think, based on the DM’s comments section, that the six-week break is hardly an issue to anybody . Instead the controversy seems to be about Harry admitting he would like to or consider living permanently overseas , and he and Meghan complaining about how bad their lives are when most people see them as privileged.
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  #522  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:46 AM
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The comments section of the DM does not represent the views of the British population. And yes, royals do live privileged lives. However I don't know that too many people would enjoy negative criticisms of them and their spouses 24/7 on online tabloid news services going on for months, sometimes two or three different articles a day. Sometimes you can pay too high a price for privilege.
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  #523  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post

I also think, based on the DM’s comments section, that the six-week break is hardly an issue to anybody . Instead the controversy seems to be about Harry admitting he would like to or consider living permanently overseas , and he and Meghan complaining about how bad their lives are when most people see them as privileged.

It makes sense that the latter would likely be what would bother people most. 6 weeks might seem like a lot to me, but it’s 6 weeks one time. Not a huge issue.

The rest is about desiring a permanent lifestyle change and general complaining about a life so difficult they can’t stand to live at home.

It’s not fair to really make a judgment until you hear it all in context- but I can certainly see why this isn’t going over well for some people already.

They are very privileged. There are obvious downsides- the press seeming to be the biggest issue- but there are some nice privileges.
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  #524  
Old 10-20-2019, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
However, I question whether a break of six weeks is really going to solve anything in the long term if Harry and Meghan are both really as close to the edge as the clips and printed interviews we have seen so far indicate. That seems very much like a bandaid on a much larger and more comprehensive problem. I'm beginning to wonder if a longer, working retreat to Africa might not actually be an excellent solution for a couple of years. I can see the appeal: it would move them a little bit out of the limelight, and perhaps give them time to regain some equilibrium. I speculated about that when the rumor first came up several months ago, and it certainly has some positive aspects now.

On the negative side, the need for a six week break when they've barely started working again after Meghan's maternity leave is not a good sign and unfortunately also feeds into some negative narratives.

I doubt that this is what they want. They do want the limelight, but they want only the positive limelight, and they want to control it, what is not going to happen.


Regarding maternity leave, I have yet to see a royal mother who will take full maternity leave as possible by law. They are no ordinary women, who struggle with all kinds of issues but have staff to take care of basics as shopping, cleaning, cooking etc, they even have live-in nannies to take care of the child whenever there is the need. They do not work 9-5 as ordinary women but only several hours 1-2 days per week max.
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  #525  
Old 10-20-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I doubt that this is what they want. They do want the limelight, but they want only the positive limelight, and they want to control it, what is not going to happen.


Regarding maternity leave, I have yet to see a royal mother who will take full maternity leave as possible by law. They are no ordinary women, who struggle with all kinds of issues but have staff to take care of basics as shopping, cleaning, cooking etc, they even have live-in nannies to take care of the child whenever there is the need. They do not work 9-5 as ordinary women but only several hours 1-2 days per week max.
I don’t know why people are ignoring the real issue here.

The royals are used to positive and negative limelight. Thats not what’s going on here.

The Duchess of Sussex has been feeling the strain of a major smear campaign. A campaign that’s filled with sexist, xenophobic and racist energy. This is not about her getting some average bad criticism. This is something much more bigger than the royals are used to. This is bullying from the press to the max. Something that needs to stop. She don’t have to sit down and take this bull.

I don’t know why folks are trying to downplay and sugarcoat what’s really going on.
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  #526  
Old 10-20-2019, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don’t know why people are ignoring the real issue here.

The royals are used to positive and negative limelight. Thats not what’s going on here.

The Duchess of Sussex has been feeling the strain of a major smear campaign. A campaign that’s filled with sexist, xenophobic and racist energy. This is not about her getting some average bad criticism. This is something much more bigger than the royals are used to. This is bullying through the press to the max.

I don’t know why folks are trying to downplay and sugarcoat what’s really going on.
If you don't like Meghan - for whatever reason - it's perfect to just say that this is normal, that they should ignore it, that she doesn't fit in (and so on), and then act surprised if the bullying breaks them.
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  #527  
Old 10-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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First off, kudos to Tom Bradby who not only wrote the article for the Sunday Times (which is behind a paywall for most of us) but also shared it with us via Twitter. Now *that's* use of his own intellectual property. He wanted that to reach as many people as possible and it did.

My reaction? The first and foremost thought that ran through my mind was "family first". Whatever Harry and Meghan are going through, their happiness and well being and peace of mind is top priority. What the public thinks doesn't matter. Their royal duties and engagements and patronages and incentives take second place because basically, if Harry and Meghan aren't in top form and happy and fully involved with the life they have, its their charities and patronages and incentives and their work with the public that will be affected by it. Everybody needs a bolthole sometimes and most, if not all, of the BRF have their special boltholes they get away to. Amner Hall, Birkhall, Wood Farm, etc.

An egg, even a hard boiled one has a shell that is easily cracked. A punching bag in a gym will eventually lose its stuffing after too many punches. A stiff upper lip can only hold so long. Isn't it a point of a mental health campaign to be aware of issues and then actively seek to *do* something about them? Isn't it kind of going against the grain to listen to just why Harry and Meghan have decided to take 6 weeks family time and chide them for doing it because of public expectations from their royal family as if they were puppets on a string?

Perhaps the mistake made was that Harry and Meghan didn't get or even want the "adjustment" period to be on their own for a while before taking on heavy duty, full time work for the "Firm" and their own incentives and the resulting stress is showing? Any comparison to any other royal family or any family worldwide is moot also as each family is individually unique in and of themselves and don't fit into a neat little box that is "normal".

Personally, time to be just with family is something that all families should have and from what I've seen, the rota of duties and engagements for the BRF usually show a jam packed calendar with "scheduled" time off around Christmas and in the summer. One cannot "plan" a need to fit into those little boxes on a calendar. We never hear of the BRF calling in sick to work.

Wherever Harry and Meghan go whether its to a remote location in Africa or the US to visit Grandma Doria or even hiding away at Frogmore, it doesn't matter. Its their decision to make what is best for their family and that decision should be honored and respected if not understood.

As someone looking at all this from the outside looking in, I can honestly say I would have cracked a very long time ago, thrown up my hands with a scowl and walked away from it all in a heartbeat. Then again, I'm not made of tungsten.
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  #528  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I don’t know why people are ignoring the real issue here.

The royals are used to positive and negative limelight. Thats not what’s going on here.

The Duchess of Sussex has been feeling the strain of a major smear campaign. A campaign that’s filled with sexist, xenophobic and racist energy. This is not about her getting some average bad criticism. This is something much more bigger than the royals are used to. This is bullying from the press to the max. Something that needs to stop. She don’t have to sit down and take this bull.

I don’t know why folks are trying to downplay and sugarcoat what’s really going on.

I don't think anything is being ignored. The problem is that much of the most toxic negativity is not coming from the press, it's coming from social media and online sources. No amount of lawsuits or hand wringing about the press is going to stop those most toxic sources from doing their toxic thing. You can shut down the press, theoretically, anyway, but the underlying attitudes and ugliness are not going to magically disappear, and will have to be dealt with. Talking as though there is some coordinated, massive campaign directed at the Sussexes is missing the point. It's the garden variety ugliness that is rampant on social media, and has been directed at many, many people--women in tech comes to mind as an obvious example.

What is the solution? And that is a very serious question.
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  #529  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by princess gertrude View Post
well said. I really agree with quite a lot in your post.
I agree as well....as some have said he has been acting more like a celebrity lately than a royal. And it seems Everytime William and Harry have an issue with the media they bring up their mom and what happened to her.
With that being said, I acknowledge that media coverage of Meghan has been biased.
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  #530  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I don't think anything is being ignored. The problem is that much of the most toxic negativity is not coming from the press, it's coming from social media and online sources. No amount of lawsuits or hand wringing about the press is going to stop those most toxic sources from doing their toxic thing. You can shut down the press, theoretically, anyway, but the underlying attitudes and ugliness are not going to magically disappear, and will have to be dealt with. Talking as though there is some coordinated, massive campaign directed at the Sussexes is missing the point. It's the garden variety ugliness that is rampant on social media, and has been directed at many, many people--women in tech comes to mind as an obvious example.

What is the solution? And that is a very serious question.
The solution is to stand up to these outside forces and for folks to stop giving them cover by making it seem like the horrific bullying is the victims fault. And acting like they’re all upset that she and her husband is speaking out about the campaign. You have to make these folks know this bull isn’t okay by calling them out and even take legal action against them when you can.

Meghan’s in-laws and palace aides could also let these forces know that this behavior isn’t acceptable and they could show some support for her in the face of this slimy campaign. Being silent is just making this campaign stronger. Stronger for the outside forces and for those online.
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  #531  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:42 PM
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I think DM is running this story out of context to get clicks, as usual. But at the same time DM is proving the Sussexes' case with the slant reporting.

Also Omid Scobie has announced this on his Twitter 10/18

https://mobile.twitter.com/scobie/st...7Ctwgr%5Etweet

This doesn't seem like retreating from the job to me. They gave a candid interview and they are still going to represent the Crown when called upon. Until BP or Sussexroyal announces the sabbatical it's the tabloids shaping the narrative.
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  #532  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by victor1319 View Post
I think, Meghan and Harry really need a vacation!

After this appearance of Harry at the Well Child thingy plus the one of Meghan, which shed some tears too yesterday...
https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalt...v-documentary/

... it is about time for them to relax, to regroup and to think about the future!

In my humble opinion Harry has still not dealt with the situation, that he is no longer needed as spare part Prince, since the Cambridges have three kids.

His - perhaps only in my opinion - attempt to reinvent himself as some kind of "Prince of the Hearts" has utterly failed! His try outs as eco warrior and nature conservationist were not exactly met with a Hooray by the public.

And, let's face it, the market for this is pretty overcrowded! From Leonardo Di Caprio and Al Gore to Fridays for Future and the Extinction Rebellion a lot of folks are already in there!

And his other try was his new duty as some kind of Commonwealth Ambassador - that is for Africa...? Uncool too! Totally uncool! He might have thought, this was a good idea, since he thinks, he has a connection to Africa. He even called Africa his refuge and second home and his wife has african roots, which he perhaps considered.

But "his" Africa is the Africa of the Safaris... And albeit is is not a shooter of animals, but more of a conservationist, he can't spend his life this way!

So, yes: Time out, relax, regroup, reinvent!
I am sorry he hasnt 'realized he is no longer the spare'

What do you expect him to do, retire to become a librarian? The fact is even if he is no longer the spare, he is a senior royal. And until about 20-25 years from now when George and his siblings are full time working royals, there will be a lot of need for him and his wife to step up for royal duties. When Charles is king, they will have a greater role until George grows up. Plain and simple.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the environment is not an over crowded fad. There isnt a sign up list of how many people can support the cause. He is not a celebrity like Leo, he is a royal. So different sign up list if you want to call it that.



I am sorry the 'commonwealth ambassador' is uncool

The queen who appointed them to be commonwealth youth ambassadors doesnt seem to agree. It's not some made up position Harry created to reinvent himself, and to be 'cool and connected to Africa'. It is for all 53 member nations of the commonwealth which the queen is head of BTW.


Meghan and Harry are also the president and vice president of the queen's commonwealth trust.


You are right his connection to Africa is not as a hunter. I don't get why you think conservation is such a filthjy word. He has spent summers there volunteering on game preserves with the wardens there. On his private time, not as a royal duty.


And you are over looking his other clearly obvious link to Africa, Sentebale. His charity he created years ago with Prince Seeiso. His passion for working with children affected by HIV in Africa. Meghan has made trips with him for it.


No need to re-invent anything. Both Harry and Meghan have established their path they are going down already. With charities both home and abroad. And considering the queen appointing them to their positions, they clearly have her support in the path they have taken.
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  #533  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ista View Post
I don't think anything is being ignored. The problem is that much of the most toxic negativity is not coming from the press, it's coming from social media and online sources. No amount of lawsuits or hand wringing about the press is going to stop those most toxic sources from doing their toxic thing. You can shut down the press, theoretically, anyway, but the underlying attitudes and ugliness are not going to magically disappear, and will have to be dealt with. Talking as though there is some coordinated, massive campaign directed at the Sussexes is missing the point. It's the garden variety ugliness that is rampant on social media, and has been directed at many, many people--women in tech comes to mind as an obvious example.

What is the solution? And that is a very serious question.



I don't know the solution to their negative press problem, but moving to Africa certainly won't help in my humble opinion.


As Rudolph said, although South Africa is a Commonwealth country, it has been a republic since 1961 (?) and the British Royal Family has no legal or official standing there. Whatever project Harry may be engaged in while living in Africa will most likely be a private project then, unless he is based there as an official representative of a British government agency/department, which would violate the neutrality of the Crown in my opinion. Living on the other hand in Africa as a private citizen, but supported financially by the Sovereign Grant or some other kind of public funding, would not fly well in the UK.

I am not overly concerned though because I doubt Harry's desire to move to Africa is being given serious consideration by the Royal House.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post

The queen who appointed them to be commonwealth youth ambassadors doesnt seem to agree. It's not some made up position Harry created to reinvent himself, and to be 'cool and connected to Africa'. It is for all 53 member nations of the commonwealth which the queen is head of BTW.


Meghan and Harry are also the president and vice president of the queen's commonwealth trust.


You are right his connection to Africa is not as a hunter. I don't get why you think conservation is such a filthjy word. He has spent summers there volunteering on game preserves with the wardens there. On his private time, not as a royal duty.



There are plenty of conservation issues in Australia and Canada too, just to name two Commonwealth countries where the Queen actually happens to be the Head of State. So why an exclusive focus on Africa ?


Yes, Harry's connection to Africa is not as a hunter. But he certainly mingled with the white South African elite having dated Chelsy Davy and having his uncle and cousins living there for a while. And he is close to the tribal royal families like in Lesotho, who are not so clean. There is nothing wrong about any of those relations per se, but it is a more multifaceted relationship than the way you are painting it.
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  #534  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:57 PM
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The Queen is the ‘symbolic’ head of the Commonwealth. She has no authority over the independent countries in Africa which belong.

Yes there are organisations and groups within the Commonwealth that promote common causes and culture but because Harry is a youth ambassador doesn’t give him free reign to travel Africa carte blanch.

If we remember back 3 or 4 years when Harry travelled to Namibia for conservation it’s President had strong words for him and warned him not to interfere with the country’s policies.
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  #535  
Old 10-20-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If this interview is really what the papers are making of it (I haven't seen it not being in Britain), it seems like a "cry for help" from Harry.



Much like his mother before him, I am afraid it will not be well received in the UK though and will only add to criticism of the couple and questions about Harry's emotional issues, which are clearly out there.



I don't see Harry walking away to a private life as a realistic option either as it conflicts with his father's and his grandmother's expectations of him ( I don't know about his brother's) and, unlike Diana, he cannot "divorce" the Royal Family. That is why I said I see it more as a cry for help than a serious proposition.
I really wonder what the Queen thinks about all this. [...]What I am saying is that I wonder if she will sit them down and talk to them and tell them it is time to make a decision about whether or not they will wholeheartedly do their jobs for the UK and quit complaining, or renounce their titles and move to Africa. I really see no other way.
Now, I was sympathetic to Harry and Meghan at the beginning of their relationship with the racist press and unfair press they received. I was a huge fan of theirs and looked forward to each appearance they made. Lately, however, they have brought a lot of criticism on themselves by unwise choices that do not reflect statements they have made. Also, they have taken their tour of Africa, which was supposed to be in support of the Commonwealth, and made it all about themselves and their difficulties. Also, not many people like hearing privileged people who largely live off the public purse complaining, no matter the reason. I want to tell them to just suck it up, do their jobs, quit complaining, and in time people will begin to see their hard work.
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  #536  
Old 10-20-2019, 02:13 PM
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There are legitimate criticisms directed at Meghan or Harry that are getting lumped in with the bullying press. Criticizing Meghan for jumping on a plane for a baby shower with rich C level celebrities is legitimate imo. Bullying Meghan to talk to her abusive father is another issue. Harry and Meghan could do things better, TRF could do things better, the media need to do things better.
Edit: [...] Maybe Harry needs to follow what his dad did and hire someone to work tirelessly to combat negativity towards Meghan; [...]The way they are going about things now doesn't seem to be working. They are too emotional and can't think rationally about how the crying and lawsuits will effect things long term.
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  #537  
Old 10-20-2019, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
It is not just that. The DM is (maybe maliciously) playing up Meghan's (out of context) quote that she is "existing, not living", which, put that way, sounds extremely insensititive and out of touch when there are millions of people in the world who have barely any food to eat, no access to medicines, drinking water, education, etc. Even in the UK, there are many struggling working class families and the country is in the middle of political upheaval and deeply divided.



Again, it is all out of context and maliciously played up, but that is how many people will see it.
Perception is everything and they need to be careful about what they say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
If I understood it correctly, he didn’t speak of a random African republic, but specifically of the possibility of living in Cape Town, which, to be honest, is the closest it gets to a Western European lifestyle in subsaharan Africa probably.

I also think, based on the DM’s comments section, that the six-week break is hardly an issue to anybody . Instead the controversy seems to be about Harry admitting he would like to or consider living permanently overseas , and he and Meghan complaining about how bad their lives are when most people see them as privileged.
This, exactly.
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  #538  
Old 10-20-2019, 02:26 PM
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The Duchess of Suffolk on the brink of tears in front of a journalist was for me, the last straw. Even if I believe that at least some of their problems are self inflicted, at the end of the day these are human beings we are discussing despite their exalted place in life. They are allowed to need and take time off to heal and regroup rather than risk a complete emotional breakdown in private- or a serious meltdown in public.

At the back of my mind is the awareness that a five months old baby is being parented by a couple that are demonstrating the effects of serious emotional stress in public. He is bound to be absorbing at least some of their unhappiness and tension. If it's not dealt with immediately the implications for his adjustment and well being are going to be considerable.

Unfortunately, I know from experience.

The entire fate of the Royal House does not depend on the behavior of the Sussexes, despite what the Daily Fail and it's readers insist. If TRH need some time away from Britain let them go.

And leave. them. ALONE.
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  #539  
Old 10-20-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Well, I haven´t done a post about the controversy around the Sussexes so far - I don´t know if this is the correct thread to do it - still, I would like to share a few thoughts about it.

Before, I have to tell you that I am a pretty "hard core" Royalist/ Monarchist (I´am not a "fan"!, like you could be a fan of Lady Gaga or Miss Jolie). I started collecting magazine clippings about Royalty since my childhood, put Harry and William as babies in little frames on my desk in my nursery and funny other things...
I just want to say that I feel so connected to The Queen and her family (and some other royal families, too) and I have so much sympathy for them, much more would be pretty impossible.

So, what I wanted to say about Harry and Meghan is that I am concerned about in what direction this is going. Because I love the royal families so much I just cannot understand why, since about some years, they constantly keep saying the most personal of things which are of nobodys business except their own family?! It´so often about things you would normally only share with very selected family members, the best of friends or your therapist!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-fa...mpression=true

It was the right thing to do of William and Harry to open up about how much of a loss their mother´s early death was and, in connection with their mental health charity (which indeed is a very important subject in our society!), stating how important it is to open up, to speak with someone about ones problems. Once, twice is ok. But this seems to become slowly of a "compulsion" they obviously can´t let go anymore. I, who had so much understanding and sympathy about the Prince´s loss 22 years ago become a bit, I must confess, driven off by all this "Oh my mother here", "my mother was the greatest", "Oh I will miss her forever" etc etc...

Of course this is a never completely healing wound, of course they will pity this early loss for the rest of their lives. But please, Princes Harry and William, mourn your mother together, in private, with your wives, tell your children about how wonderful their grandmother was - all this helps to cope!

But dragging this tragedy into public and media discussion over and over again won´t help the Princes themselves, nor the charity causes they represent and never the monarchy! If someone acts as a parton of a charity and then breaks down during his official speech because, again, he talks about personal things, he mixes his job, his duty (whatever you might call it) with his personal matters and puts this first before the job he actually was present for!

Everything at the moment seems to become covered up by Harry and Meghan´s problems with the media and family members. Where are the things Royalty is really there for? The Monarchy is here to be there for the people, to represent them in the most dignified way home and abroad, to be a voice for minorities, for the poor! Where are the serious discussions about their work, their charities WITHOUT arguments about their proper or not-so-proper public appearences?!

Harry was the star of the RF, loved by virtually anybody, men and women. What happened since he got married? For 15, almost 20 years he was my hero. Today I find him often simply annoying...
Why is the Queen held in such high regard? Why are so many people in Japan so reverential towards the japanese emperial family? Because they keep their mouth shut about personal things and speak only when their task requires for it!

In my opinion the desire of what is liked to be called "modern monarchy", giving interviews on virtually a daily basis, sharing your private things with a world audience, demonstrating constantly "We are nothing special, no, we are just like you!", is a road that leads into nowhere and is neither helpful for us, the media nor the Royals themselves!
I agree wholeheartedly.
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  #540  
Old 10-20-2019, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Heard from everyone? Not one member of that family nor their aides have said anything about the smear campaign that has hit Meghan. Not one. They can clearly see it happening. They read the papers. They know what’s going on with the social media outlets. No one has pushed back against the nasty treatment Meghan is suffering from. They can say something. They have ways to make it known to the press that this behavior isn’t unacceptable. They haven’t done jack about any of this.

All this silence from the family hasn’t done anything but give people the room and permission to continue with the abuse.
[...]

IMO Meghan and Harry’s “Woe is Me” campaign isn’t helping them and only fueling the negativity and hostility. I had so many hopes for this couple in the beginning but I am sadly disappointed with the direction they are going. I really think they need cooler heads and a steadier hands in how they move forward from here.
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