The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change

[Furienna]

But do you really think, that a female leader can't make mistakes or be a bad leader? Do you think, that everything a woman does it good, just because a woman does it? That's just as wrong as thinking that everything a man does is right just because a man does it. And also, you might wonder, if the oldest one always is "the best" to make a monarch.

 

[Vita]

I don't think I ever said that a woman should just be ruler because she is woman. I said that a woman should be allowed to rule despite her having brothers. And that she should be ruler if she is first born just like a man, just like it has been between the men for centuries upon centuries. That is only fair and right. Men and women are different, but men get first pick all the time at being leader and no one ever asks the question should male leader be picked just because he is male. That thought never crosses most minds. People assume and accept that this is the way things are and what difference does it make? Well, it makes a difference to me. Because that's not how it should be.

In terms of the oldest being the one to rule, I see nothing wrong with that. If you are 25 and your youngest siblings are years younger, are subjects and Parliament supposed to wait until they are all of age to decide who should rule? The oldest succeeds for a reason and it is up to them to take the training and studies they have been given to do the best possible job as Crown. I do, however, and I mentioned this, think that should the oldest not be able to rule for whatever reason, of course it should go to whomever is next in line. Why shouldn't it? The first isn't always the best-we know this from history-but the male isn't always the best either, so if we're going to apply the theory to one, we must apply to all in my personal opinion.

 

[Lox]

A lot of people here in Sweden will, if asked, tell you that they prefer Carl Philip as heir to the throne. He was born as a crown prince, and it was wrong to take that away from him. However, I think that everyone supports a gender-neutral succession, but that should only concern Carl Philips children.

I'm a Carlist. Are you?

 

[Yennie]

A lot of people here in Sweden will, if asked, tell you that they prefer Carl Philip as heir to the throne. He was born as a crown prince, and it was wrong to take that away from him. However, I think that everyone supports a gender-neutral succession, but that should only concern Carl Philips children.

I'm a Carlist. Are you?

I´m not. Mainly because I think Victoria is much better for the role than Carl Philip. But also due to the fact that the change of the act of succession happend when they were to small to understand what happend.
If´they had been older, like the case in Norway with Haakon and Märta Louise, I think it would have been wrong to change titles though...

 

[grevinnan]

Victoria is our Crown Princess. What do you base your statement on that most Swedes would prefer Carl Philip? I agree that the completely illogical way the change happened could only be created by a bunch of politicians. However, Victoria is in line to be our Queen and I believe most Swedes are very happy about that.

 

[Lox]

I´m not. Mainly because I think Victoria is much better for the role than Carl Philip.

Carl Philip would be just as good, if not better. Remember that Victoria used to have an eating disorder. What does that say about her mental health?

What do you base your statement on that most Swedes would prefer Carl Philip?

My personal experience from discussions about this with friends, co-workers etc. But everyone thinks that Victoria will do a good job anyway.

 

[Gita]

Crown Princess Victoria had a mental health problem, so what? It's estimated in Britain that 1 in 5 adults will at some point have a mental health problem some point during their life. Just because she had an eating disorder does not make her unfit to be queen. If anything she has become stronger and her struggles have made her compassionate to others struggles and problems which she ha clearly shown on many official public engagments.

I think Crown Princess Victoria will do an excellent job if she inherits the throne one day.

 

[ZandraRae]

I think when the time comes for Crown Princess Victoria to take the throne, she will be ready. After all, she has been preparing to be queen basically her whole life. Unlike Carl Phillip.

I agree with Vita on the fact that women are, if not more (in some cases) capable to rule a country than a man. Carl Phillip is a very shy person, and I don't see him interacting alot with people, whereas Victoria does. In Carl Phillip's defense I will say that he wasn't brought up to be a future ruler.

As for her bout with an eating disorder: she has been over that for a long time now, and she has "whipped it" as we say in the US. She seems to be in good health now and that is all that counts.

 

[Gita]

Excellent point ZandraRae!

 

[Yennie]

Carl Philip would be just as good, if not better. Remember that Victoria used to have an eating disorder. What does that say about her mental health?

thats your opinion. But I dont agree. Carl Philip is very shy, dyslexic and so on. wouldnt that disqualify him then?

I belive Victorias mental health is just fine, she just went through a time in her life where she, like many people do, questioned who she was and who she wanted to be. She is after all human I think thats her strenght!

 

[maidmarion]

Carl Philip would be just as good, if not better. Remember that Victoria used to have an eating disorder. What does that say about her mental health?

Comments like these truly are not necesary. The same can be said IF (supposing) that Carl had some kind of mental illness or some addiction.
What would that say about anything? This is very personal issue which has no bearing whatsoever on her ability to reign. The mere fact that she has overcome this situation can be attributed to her will and determination. If Carl were to be in the same boat, would this apply to him also?

We've had many rulers and polititians who've suffered from certain disorders which the public was not aware of and went on to rule solidly. After the death of her beloved Prince Albert, Queen Victoria came back from her mild depression to rule supreme.

MM

 

[maidmarion]

Crown Princess Victoria had a mental health problem, so what? It's estimated in Britain that 1 in 5 adults will at some point have a mental health problem some point during their life. Just because she had an eating disorder does not make her unfit to be queen. If anything she has become stronger and her struggles have made her compassionate to others struggles and problems which she ha clearly shown on many official public engagments.

I think Crown Princess Victoria will do an excellent job if she inherits the throne one day.

Here, Here Gita !! I agree. Thank You

MM

 

[Lox]

Carl Philip is very shy, dyslexic and so on. wouldnt that disqualify him then?

Victoria also has problems with dyslexia. And I wouldn't say that Carl Philip is a very shy person.

What would that say about anything? This is very personal issue which has no bearing whatsoever on her ability to reign. The mere fact that she has overcome this situation can be attributed to her will and determination. If Carl were to be in the same boat, would this apply to him also?

Is it really possible to (mentally) beat anorexia, or for that matter, any mental illness? You can suppress it, but you can't get rid of it. What if Victoria would have these problems again when she becomes Queen? Will she be able to fulfill her duties when she basically is a walking skeleton?

And yes, this would apply to Carl Philip to.

 

[ZandraRae]

Lox, I truly believe that Victoria will never become a skeleton, except for when she dies. I think she realizes how important it is for her to maintain good health. If I remember correctly wasn't this like 10 years ago? If she hasn't had a relapse in this amount of time, I doubt she will, period.

 

[Furienna]

I have to agree, that Victoria's eating disorders don't have to mean she will be unfit to reign one day. I truely believe she will be a good queen. However, I still think they were wrong to change the succession, because I also believe Carl Philip could have become a good king.

 

[ZandraRae]

Yes, Furienna, but in the long wrong, Victoria is the firstborn, therefore she deserves the throne. I do hope that they will change Spain's act of succession also. Leonor deserves her chance also.

 

[Daneborn]

Victoria is our Crown Princess. What do you base your statement on that most Swedes would prefer Carl Philip? I agree that the completely illogical way the change happened could only be created by a bunch of politicians. However, Victoria is in line to be our Queen and I believe most Swedes are very happy about that.

I agree, Grevinnan.

Lox, why do you say a lot of Swedes would prefer Carl Philip as the heir?

I have never heard anybody before you express something like that.

Can you present any evidence of this, like a public poll, or an organisation working for his ''rights''?

If this was an issue I'm pretty confident the tabloids wouldn't waste one second penetrating the subject. (Which they, to my knowledge, never do.)

I think you should limit your statement to 'I for one would prefer Carl Philip' instead of 'a lot of Swedes'.

 

[Lena]

Well, there are surely some ppl, who would prefer Carl Philip, but as it seems Victoria enjoys enormous popularity. Not just because of her "charisma", but also because she has been in this position for about 30 years. I guess most ppl got used to her and don´t wanna miss her in this position. It maybe would have been harder, if the law would have been changed only 10-15 years ago (that´s why I hope, that they hurry in Spain or simply make a decision at all)
And women surely are not worse...and often extremely popular as the cases of Elizabeth, Margrethe and Beatrix show. But I must also admit, that as a crown princess (queen), I would wish for a boy as first born. Out of a feministic point of view a woman on the throne is of course fantastic and as I´ve said, they don´t need to be less popular than men, but no one can say me, that it´s easy to find a husband in this position! Not many men want to take a back seat. And now you can say, that this is just a matter of education and attitude...and maybe it is...but as long as the women, who shout out loud "Girl power...women to the throne" just pay attention to the crown princesses (and their bling bling and charities...) and not to prince consorts this attitude (not wanting to take the back seat) won´t change.

Of course it´s said one is never fully cured of eating disorders...but Victoria´s illness was treated at an relatively early point. She pushed her therapy through in a straight way (didn´t cancel therapies, hadn´t many hospital stays, didn´t seem to have relapses...) so that I guess, she can be considered as healthy and not endangered. For my taste she is a little too much into health food and sports these days, but this is just the statement of a lazy couch potatoe...and if this would mean, she is still ill, maaany women would be eating disordered as well...

 

[Furienna]

Yes, Furienna, but in the long wrong, Victoria is the firstborn, therefore she deserves the throne. I do hope that they will change Spain's act of succession also. Leonor deserves her chance also.

I have nothing against Victoria, but the only thing, that makes her deserve the throne, is that she's been raised to become a queen at least she was three years old, and we can't change it now. I think Carl Philip deserves it just as much.

 

[Lox]

Lox, why do you say a lot of Swedes would prefer Carl Philip as the heir?

I have never heard anybody before you express something like that.

Well, as I previously wrote, this is my personal experience from discussions with friends, co-workers etc. The feeling I get is that people who know that Carl Philip was a crown prince for some time, tend to think that it was wrong to take that away from him.

And let's not forget that the King prefer Carl Philip as crown prince.
An article (in Swedish):http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,395638,00.html

 

[GrandDuchess]

I have never, in my entire life so far, heard anyone even suggest the idea that Prince Carl Philip would make a better monarch that Crown Princess Victoria. The people love Victoria, she is immensely popular and people truly admire her for her work and her serious attitude towards her position and her fields of interests, and I would say that she herself has helped to strengthen the Swedish monarchy even more by being the heir, just like Silvia did when she became our Queen.

To raise the issue of Victoria's former health problems, not to mention dyslexia, as some kind of argument for her not being fit to be a monarch - now that is way off line and frankly mean and rude!

What kind of attitude is this towards people who are not 100% normal (and who is "normal" anyway?)? Today all of us have some kind of problems, mental or otherwise.

Victoria has been very open about her dyslexia and has helped many kids and grown ups to come to terms with their syndrome, which does not affect them and their ability to lead a normal life by the way - it just means that hey have reading and writing difficulties- their intelligence is at the same level as everyone else’s. Both Victoria and Carl Philip are dyslectic, so what? Does that mean they are less capable? Of course not!

I'm happy that we have such a wonderful heir to the throne, and it's my personal belief and opinion that Carl Philip is quite happy to "only" be a prince and quite a anonymous one, being able to lead quite a normal life. As many have said, he is quite shy and isn't as open, spontaneous and relaxed as Victoria in official contexts. Of course this might also have to do with the fact that Victoria has been raised to become the monarch one day, but I also believe some of it is rooted in their personalities.

Victoria is the firstborn, for me that says it all. She is the natural heir to the throne. Gender is to me not an argument in capability or ability in any way.

 

[ZandraRae]

Way to go GrandDuchess! I agree with you completely. Victoria is the rightful heir to the Swedish throne. Who can define "normal" anyway? While one person may see something as "normal", another may not. Personally, I don't think Carl Phillip would like to be Crown Prince anyways. I think he has other things on his mind rather than trying to run a country.

 

[Next Star]

I am happy that Victoria is the heir to the throne because the line of succession is base on age and not on the sex of the child.She went from not having a place in line to the throne and now she is first in line for the throne.
I feel that the first born should be heir period rather their a boy or girl in this case Victoria is older than Carl Philip and that is why? She is the heir and he is not.

 

[Zonk]

Let's try to stay on topic which is supposed to be a discussion on the actual Act of Succession.

 

[maidmarion]

I believe that the "Act of Succession" that has transpired in Sweden is a fabulous example of what the monarchy stands for today. We have talked and discussed in many previous posts about how much the monarchy has evolved and changed to reflect todays societies while still maintaining it's connections with the past. We love our monarchies no doubt about it or we wouldn't be on this site.

Perhaps the time has now arrived in which this standard should be upheld for all reigning and non-reigning monarchies. This would allow the "first born" to succeed regardless of gender. Some people refer respectfully about their monarchy as something they cherish to be "OF THEM" or representative of themselves. For them to refect us would mean to change for we are not the same societies we were before the equality movement or even 20 years for that matter!

Birthright, can be a very deep and personal subject for the modern monarchies of today. We look to them as an opportunity to relate to all of us and the societies they reign over. Perhaps the time has come for them to do so aswell. Ask the people, change can be good and I truly believe that Victoria will prove all her critics wrong. Progress can be and is good. The Act of Succession was changed and passed before the children were born anyway. We must think positive and move forward.

Thanks for listening,
MM

 

[avrilo]

I really dont understand this Act of Sucession change, for me is equally discriminatory to chose one to be King or Queen just because the order of birth as it is gender.

 

[soCal girl]

I really dont understand this Act of Sucession change, for me is equally discriminatory to chose one to be King or Queen just because the order of birth as it is gender.

True, either way it's unfair. However, there is no way to choose an heir fairly. The fairest way is by birth order. Carl Philip and Madeleine seem to have no problem with their big sis being Queen. I think both view it as having the best of both worlds. All the privilege and status without the pressure of becoming a future monarch. Sure, they have some official responsibilities now and then but I'm sure the perks such as, private Gucci shopping visits, entrance into the best clubs/restaurants, and traveling the world outweigh the downsides. The Swedes seem to be happy with their future Queen and that's all that matters. At first it seemed a little unfair to me that Carl Philip be "down-graded" to just a Prince but it seems like everything worked out in the end.

 

[Next Star]

Let's try to stay on topic which is supposed to be a discussion on the actual Act of Succession.

Okay! The actual change of law that deals with the line of succession gives the oldest child regardless of sex to be heir to the throne insteading going by sex like the prevoius law. Carl-Philp was the only person in to the line before the law was changed.Making this law change allowed his two sisters to be in the line of succession when they had no places at all. This is showing how an Heir-Apparent can be removed. Sorry Zonk!

 

[maidmarion]

Okay! The actual change of law that deals with the line of succession gives the oldest child regardless of sex to be heir to the throne insteading going by sex like the prevoius law. Carl-Philp was the only person in to the line before the law was changed.Making this law change allowed his two sisters to be in the line of succession when they had no places at all. This is showing how an Heir-Apparent can be removed. Sorry Zonk!

I think what Zonk was trying to imply was that we were straying off topic. Thanks for the insight NextStar.

MM

 

[Next Star]

I think what Zonk was trying to imply was that we were straying off topic. Thanks for the insight NextStar.

MM

I said a little bit about the law being changed Victoria had no place at all than become first in line to the throne.That was the only thing I said about the law. I admit it looks more like a opinion than a actual law change. And your welcome maidmarion