The Change of the Act of Succession - 1979 Constitution Change

[Yennie]

I can't really imagine Prince Carl Philip having this role at all...

me neither! I think Victoria does a great job and imo, her personality is much better for the role as heir/official person than Carl Philip´s.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by Yennie

me neither! I think Victoria does a great job and imo, her personality is much better for the role as heir/official person than Carl Philip´s.

But maybe Carl Philip´s personality would have developed differently, if he would have been crown prince (?) And he surely would be better in meetings with the press etc., since he would have had 7 years hard training.

[Alexandria]

Originally Posted by Lena

But maybe Carl Philip´s personality would have developed differently, if he would have been crown prince (?) And he surely would be better in meetings with the press etc., since he would have had 7 years hard training.

I definitely agree with you on this one Lena.

I think that had Carl Philip been a Crown Prince from birth, or even a very young age, I think his attitude and personality would be quite different than what it is today. He would likely have lived a much different, more rigorous life as Victoria has, and perhaps not had as much privacy as he has had.

In cases where the heir unexpectedly/suddenly passes on and a younger sibling takes over, I always feel sorry for the younger sibling taking on his or her brother or sister's role. The younger sibling is so much less prepared as he or she wasn't "trained" for the role from birth, even if you do say that he or she is second in line to the throne. To me being second in line doesn't mean much. For example in the case of Frederik and Joachim, if something were to happen right now, I don't think Joachim would be as prepared as Frederik is as he hasn't had the military training or "Crown Princely" training as Frederik has had. Likewise if Carl Philip were to step in suddenly for Victoria or Martha Louise for Haakon, etc.

[GrandDuchess]

Originally Posted by Lena

He said something like "Women aren´t good (enough) for this job". This was quoted so often, that I believe it´s true. And when you think of the interview in Amelia, that you´ve translated, then you will notice, that she was asked how this is for her, that her father wasn´t happy about the idea of female succession.

I have NEVER heard that the King has said that women are not good enough for the job.

The only thing I know (and remember very well) he has said is what Victoria says in the interview I translated - that he felt that the role of being Queen and Head of State is much more hard for women and not really ideal or made for women - because it will mean that they are a mother at the same time. Now saying that might in itself point to his oldfashioned upbringing, and I remember that I gave his comment a lot of though afterwards - but of course some of it is also true (women are still the ones who have to give birth to the children, but let's hope she has a family before her day comes).

Of course I don't know everything, and he might have said this (that "women are not good enough for the job") before I was born or to young to understand or know it.

- My father meant that is was a change that would mean it would be a difficult role for a women to have and at the same time be a mother.

[Yennie]

I have NEVER heard that the King has said that women are not good enough for the job.

He once said, like someone wrote earlier, that he found it strange that the parliament "made" the children switch places. Carl Philip was after all born crown prince.

But queen Silvia has been more specific. She said that she, as a woman and mother, tought it would be difficult for Victoria to be able to have two roles, as queen and as mother. But she also said she thinks Victoria will be a good queen.

[Lena]

Originally Posted by GrandDuchess

- but of course some of it is also true (women are still the ones who have to give birth to the children, but let's hope she has a family before her day comes).


- My father meant that is was a change that would mean it would be a difficult role for a women to have and at the same time be a mother.

Yes, women will always give birth to children, but that´s not a chronic disease. And even if one wants to see it as problem (8-12 weeks around the birth, in which a woman isn´t as fit as usual, nursing...) CG should look at his family and his situation:

A) In the opposite to an employee a Royal can choose, how many duties he or she wants to do. Of course important events like the NPA can´t be missed intentionally, but there are many duties, which are chosen of the Royal. And thanks god the nature is kind and the children aren´t really brought as a surprise of the stork. So such things could be planned around the birth date of the child.

B) Usually a swedish Royal has 3 official duties a week. And some hours in the office. But unlike an employee a Royal can skip the hours in the office, when the child is ill etc. And usually most offical dates are in Stockholm, so that the parent would be soon at home again. Yes, there are some duties abroad, but I wouldn´t say this is comparable to the job of a pilot or a business men, or a person, who has to commute 100 miles a day to the job and back. And as Rania and Mette Marit have shown the nursed baby can be with them, when they go abroad. Mette Marit´s daughter travelled a lot in her first year, but usually there aren´t so many Royal weddings in one year.

C) When the Royal parents really have no time and both have to work then the Royal baby or toddler can be given in the hands of a nanny. Again something, which a lot of parents can´t do, because they can´t always pay and find a babysitter.

D) Looking at the Royal calendar and at the reports and many pics of the 80ties of the swedish Royals, I dare to say that Queen Silvia works as much, maybe even more as her hubby (she also does a lot for charity). Logically a crown prince or king can´t have children without a wife. And it´s also expected from the wife, that she works for the monarchy. Comparing the crown princesses and Queens through birth and the crown princesses and Queens through marriage in the past 50 years I don´t see a big difference, when it comes to work. Though one person is the sovereign, in a Royal family mostly all persons are involved!

E) Usually in a Royal family the crown prince(ss)es has enough time to raise a family, and when their children are in their teens or twenties then their (through birth Royal) parent will succeed the throne. Carl Gustaf had bad luck, since his father died so young, but I guess you all will agree that this isn´t the norm.

Summarised I would say a Royal parent can have (if he or she wants) more time with the children, than many "commoners". So please, Carl Gustaf, don´t come up with such "specious" excuses! The only thing on which I agree is, that it might be harder for a crown princess to find a prince consort, but I don´t just see this negatively. It´s a challenge, yes, but when they have found someone, and respect each other, then the crown princess at least can be sure, that this man loves her really, since he gives up so much for her.

I hope Carl Gustaf thinks now differently about that, what he said then. And I hope he looks at his colleagues Margrethe and Beatrix (Elizabeth too...but she´s out of an other generation), which-sorry to say-seem to enjoy greater popularity than CG. And if CG wouldn´t have said that and would stop to speed, he would also get my admiration. I don´t care about his mistakes (naming things wrong, talking about politics...), but I really hope that he respects women in higher positions and knows, that fathers also have responibility, when it comes to changing diapers, playing with the children, telling them a "good night"-story, feeding and washing them...

[hrhcp]

Originally Posted by Lena

PS: IMO the king should clarify it once for all! I mean he should tell us, what he´s thinking now about the female succession in general.

I think he is coming around to the good of change, albeit slowly, witness ....

"I would also like to express my delight of the fact that Crown Princess Victoria during the past year has become an even more important support for the Queen and me in our many official duties ... already at this point, she can help me, and get many expressions of affection and appreciation from the people she meets.
I feel pride for her, and I know that she is grateful and looks to the future with confidence."

[mixer2002de]

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=769&date=20041227

An All English article. Maybe very interesting

[MoonlightRhapsody]

You know, that piece with the King praising Victoria came as a real relief to me. There were so many times in the past where you would think that he wasn't proud of the job she's been doing and would prefer his son as the Crown Prince simply because he was a man. As an eldest daughter myself, that point of view would be humiliating, hurtful, and difficult to swallow.

[soCal girl]

Sometimes I wonder how things would be different if the Swedish Succession Law never changed. How do you think Carl Philip's life would be different? Victoria and Madeleine's? I think if Carl Philip was still a Crown Prince; there would be much more media buzz around him and more gossip magazines hunting him down. I don't think he would be dating Emma but probably more high profile girls and he might be more outgoing. Also, If Victoria weren't Crown Princess; I think there would be more Victoria vs. Madeleine going on, especially about the guys they date and such. The relationship between Carl Philip and Madeleine would probably be very different also. They seem so close right now but if he were to be a future King; they might have seen less of each other and not have been so close. But I think if Carl Philip was Crown Prince, then Madeleine and Victoria would be closer. Carl Philip is very cute but I think the media would make him "cuter" and more "playboyish" if he was the Crown Prince of Sweden.

Just wanted to know some thoughts on this. What would have been different?

[magnik]

Yes. Everything could be different. Boys, girls, life... I don't think that they relationships could be different. As now they are close to eah other like it's only possible. Crown Prince Carl Philip would have more duties like CP Victoria have now, and Pricess Victoria could have engagements like her sister.

[soCal girl]

That's true, everything would be different. I also wonder about marriage though. Would Victoria marry before her brother or after her brother even though she's older? Say she's been dating Daniel the same amount of time; would they wait for Carl Philip or marry first because she's older? Right now I think both Carl Philip and Madeleine seem to be holding off marriage (both have been with their significant other for a good amount of time and both don't seem to be breaking it off anytime soon) because Victoria hasn't yet; plus she's older and the Crown Princess.

[Caswallan]

I believe that if Prince Carl Philip had of been Crown Prince that the media would of spent way more time covering his every move than they do with CP Victoria. Of course I live very far away and don't get much media coverage of the Swedish Royal Family but compared to other Royal Families CP Victoria does not appear to generate as much media frenzy.

I do not think this is a bad thing. I think it is nice that CP Victoria is treated so well by the media.

[kaydura0717]

I think CP Victoria was taunted by the press when she was younger (remember when she had an eating disorder and it was because the tabloids were calling her fat). I think if Carl Philip were CP he would probably be more outgoing and taking on more official duties. I don't see his relationship with Emma changing but it would be put under more media scrutiny. As for Victoria I think she'll have it easy on her to be able to marry Daniel (if she wants to) and Madeleine will remain the same.

[madeleine victoria]

i think everything would change except how the media covers the siblings. they are the most good-looking blue blooded royals imo so i don't think the way they received the media now would change except that maybe CP would get the most attention than her siblings because he's the heir.

[Daneborn]

king carl gustaf's sisters didn't wait for him to marry, they were all married before their little brother.

carl-philip and madeleine hardly have any duties, i doubt any of them would swap their easy lifestyle with the hardworking victoria.

if carl-philip and emma marry first they would definitely get more coverage. but media has never been interested in emma, who seems a little greyish. it's all about daniel and jonas, and victoria and madeleine.

i think victoria, and the press secretary mrs. tarras-wahlberg, will argue with you if you claim she's treated well by media. it's a well-known fact in sweden that they are all very fed up with the way media portray them.

[Caswallan]

Well like I said I don't get alot of media coverage in Canada. So that is all I have based my opinion on. Sorry to hear otherwise. :(

[grevinnan]

Isn't most of the coverage of the royal family tastefully and respectfully done? I only read online swedish papers but it seems as if there are only a handful of journalists / reporters and publications that clearly have stepped waaaay over the line. It appears that mostly the royal family and the institution of the monarchy are treated well.

Does this issue look different from "hemlandets" perspective.

[Yennie]

Originally Posted by grevinnan

Isn't most of the coverage of the royal family tastefully and respectfully done? I only read online swedish papers but it seems as if there are only a handful of journalists / reporters and publications that clearly have stepped waaaay over the line. It appears that mostly the royal family and the institution of the monarchy are treated well.

Does this issue look different from "hemlandets" perspective.

They are generally very well threated. It has gotten "worse" recently, but that is just because the press respected the royal childrens need for privacy when they were children/teenagers. Now when they are adults they has to handle the attention. It comes with the job imo.

However; I think there are some things we dont know about. Many photos of them taken by paparazzies are never published in swedish media. When I had access to All over press, I saw new paparazzi photos of the rf (especially princess Madeleine) almost every day. I never saw any of the photos anywher else than on the website, so I think there are alot of things happening that we dont know of

[Gita]

Overall compared to some of the other European Royals they get a lot of privacy.