State Visit from The King and Queen of Spain: November 24-25 2021


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
i am looking forward to this. we haven't had many monachy to monachy state visits lately with COVID, so this will be quite exciting.
 
I saw a picture of King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia's state visit to Spain in 1983 and King Carl Gustaf wore the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece, whereas King Juan Carlos wore the collar of the Order of the Seraphim, see link below.


https://royalwatcherblog.com/2019/03/21/swedish-state-visit-to-spain-1983/



Like King Carl Gustaf, Queen Beatrix, Emperor Akihito, and King Albert II also chose to wear the collar of the Fleece on state visits, but Queen Elizabeth II famously did not (she only wore the dame's ribbon insignia in 1989 and 2017). King Juan Carlos himself rarely wears the collar. The only time I remember seeing him with the collar was at Prince Felipe's wedding, but there may have been other occasions too which I missed.


Anyway, assuming that the Spanish state vist to Sweden in November is confirmed, can we expect King Carl Gustaf to wear the collar of the Fleece again?



Wikipedia says that Felipe, as Prince of Asturias, was also made a Knight of the Seraphim with collar. Normally, I would expect him to wear only the Grand Cross in Sweden, but, given his father's precedent in 1983 (albeit in Spain, not in Sweden), can we expect King Felipe to wear the collar of the Seraphim too?



It would be quite nice if both monarchs had collars, which is a quite rare sighting!
 
King Juan Carlos himself rarely wears the collar. The only time I remember seeing him with the collar was at Prince Felipe's wedding, but there may have been other occasions too which I missed.


!


If i remeber right he wore it also at the wedding of his daughters,.
But interesting to see that Queen Silvia was only awarded the Order of Isabel the catholic and not the Order of Carlos III. which is usually given to Queen Consorts.
 
If i remeber right he wore it also at the wedding of his daughters,.
But interesting to see that Queen Silvia was only awarded the Order of Isabel the catholic and not the Order of Carlos III. which is usually given to Queen Consorts.


Of course! I missed it because I didn't watch the weddings of the Infantas.


You are right. Normally the queens consort receive the Order of Carlos III, but I suppose that is decided by the Spanish government since both the order of Carlos III and the order of Isabella the Catholic are civil (not dynastic) orders. Maybe Queen Silvia will get the Grand Cross of Carlos III this time and CP Victoria might get either the Order of Carlos III or the Order of Isabella the Catholic. Crown Princes normally get the latter, but Prince Charles for example received the former.
 
And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!
 
And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!


For sure she will get the Order of the Serpahim.
And Prince Daniel will get likely a spanish Order. This will be then his first from an european Monarchy except Sweden of course.
 
And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!
It seems to be "safe" she will receive the Order of the seraphim.. And For Silvia finally the Order of Charles III as she received just The Order of Isabella the catholic previously.. For Victoria, Daniel, CP and Sofia i expect the Order of Isabella the catholic, If Cristina attend she most likely wears the Isabella Order too(she received 1979) As unlikely it is for Madeleine- If she is in Sweden I could imagine The Order of Merit Grand Cross

BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4.7c4768101a4e888378000228.html?page=3#Kalendern
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For sure she will get the Order of the Serpahim.
And Prince Daniel will get likely a spanish Order. This will be then his first from an european Monarchy except Sweden of course.


That's very true as I hadn't realized Prince Daniel didn't have any foreign royal orders and currently has the Royal Order of the Seraphim and the Royal Order of the Polar Star from Sweden.
 
I also believe that the visit will last for 3 days. I hope the visit will be officially announced by the end of this month.
I think the German state visit to sweden was announced two weeks before it started. So we might have to wait a bit longer..
 
Last edited:
I have also reflected on that Queen Silvia "only" received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. She might get another order this time.

I have been thinking about the order Crown Princess Victoria would receive as well, and it seems there is no logic in previous awards. Willem-Alexander was awarded the Order of Isabella the Catholic, but Crown Prince Haakon the Order of Carlos III. Let us see what practice King Felipe will set

I doubt King Felipe has the Order of the Seraphim with the collar. The Order only has one grade Knight/member, but the collar is seen as special distinction to Heads of State. In practice that means fellow monarchs, or the President from Iceland and Finland. As King Felipe already is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim it's likely that he will receive the collar during this State visit. On the other hand, if was to be made a Knight during this state visit, he would receive the collar during the next Swedish state visit.
 
I have also reflected on that Queen Silvia "only" received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. She might get another order this time.

I have been thinking about the order Crown Princess Victoria would receive as well, and it seems there is no logic in previous awards. Willem-Alexander was awarded the Order of Isabella the Catholic, but Crown Prince Haakon the Order of Carlos III. Let us see what practice King Felipe will set




The King of Spain actually has several options in terms of orders that are awarded as diplomatic courtesy.



The Golden Fleece is more or less like the Garter in the sense that it should be in theory in the personal gift of the King as a dynastic order. There is some debate on whether that is still strictly true today or not, but, in any case, it is a very exclusive order (currently there are only 17 living members, including 3 members of the Spanish Royal Family) and no one in Sweden is expected to receive it other than King Carl Gustaf, who is already a Knight.



The other orders are civil orders in which, according to the statutes, awards are pre-approved in the Council of Ministers and then made by royal decree on the recommendation of a responsible minister, which I interpret as meaning that they are decided by the government. As diplomatic courtesy, three options are used: the order of Charles III (Carlos III in Spanish), the order of Isabella the Catholic (Isabel la Católica in Spanish) and, as mentioned above but often forgotten, the order of Civil Merit. The collar, both of Charles III and Isabella the Catholic, are reserved normally for Heads of State, whereas consorts normally get the Grand Cross, which, in Spain, is a lower grade. As you have mentioned, some Crown Princes (Willem-Alexander and Philippe) received the order of Isabella the Catholic, whereas others (the Prince of Wales and Haakon) received the order of Charles III, so it is mostly unpredictable. In recent years, the Spanish government even awarded only the Encomienda de Número of Isabella the Catholic (equivalent to a grade like Knight Commander) to Princess Anne and Prince Andrew, which I find a little bit rude.



If I had to guess, I would say


Queen Silvia: upgraded to the Grand Cross of Charles III;


Victoria and Daniel: Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic, or Grand Cross of Charles III for Victoria and Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic for Daniel (the former as for Philippe/Mathilde and the latter as for Haakon/Mette-Marit);


Carl-Philip and Sofia: no Spanish order, or perhaps the Grand Cross of Civil Merit.


I doubt King Felipe has the Order of the Seraphim with the collar. The Order only has one grade Knight/member, but the collar is seen as special distinction to Heads of State. In practice that means fellow monarchs, or the President from Iceland and Finland. As King Felipe already is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim it's likely that he will receive the collar during this State visit. On the other hand, if was to be made a Knight during this state visit, he would receive the collar during the next Swedish state visit.
The Wikipedia page on "List of Knights of the Seraphim" shows Felipe's coat of arms as Prince of Asturias surrounded by the collar of the Seraphim rather than the grand cross only. However, another page on "List of hono(u)rs of the Spanish royal family by country" lists only Juan Carlos as "Knight with collar", so suppose you are right. In any case, if King Felipe doesn't have the collar yet, it is a good opportunity for him to get it now and even more reason for him to wear it in Sweden.
 
Last edited:
The Wikipedia page on "List of Knights of the Seraphim" shows Felipe's coat of arms as Prince of Asturias surrounded by the collar of the Seraphim rather than the grand cross only. However, another page on "List of hono(u)rs of the Spanish royal family by country" lists only Juan Carlos as "Knight with collar", so suppose you are right. In any case, if King Felipe doesn't have the collar yet, it is a good opportunity for him to get it now and even more reason for him to wear it in Sweden.

For some reason all men (Knights) with the Order of Seraphim have the collar pictured at the Coat of arms, while most women (Members) have the blue sash pictured. So the Coat of arms is not the best guidance in this case. Hopefully, it might be a change in how the orders are presented and listed with the reform on orders in Sweden.
 
T
As you have mentioned, some Crown Princes (Willem-Alexander and Philippe) received the order of Isabella the Catholic, whereas others (the Prince of Wales and Haakon) received the order of Charles III, so it is mostly unpredictable. In recent years, the Spanish government even awarded only the Encomienda de Número of Isabella the Catholic (equivalent to a grade like Knight Commander) to Princess Anne and Prince Andrew, which I find a little bit rude.

Prince of Wales received the order of Charles III in 1986, maybe it was a gesture from Juan Carlos, the rest of the Crown Princes received the order of Isabella the Catholic. The change occurs with Prince Haakon in 2006, but it may be because in 2002 there was a change in the order's legislation. Nor is it strange that when they count on an exchange of visits in the near future, they start with the order of Isabella the Catholic, and then go up in importance of the orders with each visit.

In the British case, Queen Letizia and other members of the Spanish delegation did not receive British orders, so due to the principle of reciprocity the British could not have received them, and exceptions were made, but opting for a lower degree than usual.
 
Last edited:
A shorter State visit than normal but to be expected with Covid restrictions and thankfully going ahead.

It will a busy 2 days!
 
Is this the first time the Kings of Spain have been to Sweden since Princess Victoria's wedding?
Felipe and Letizia were not at Princess Madeleine's wedding in 2013 nor were they at Prince Carl Philip's wedding in 2015.

It seems that King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia arrive in Sweden on the 23rd. But it will be a shorter visit than usual.
I'm glad the visit will go ahead.
https://www.abc.es/espana/casa-real...cia-23-25-noviembre-202110211353_noticia.html

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Porta...aginas/2021_COMUNICADOS/20211021_COMU082.aspx
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So only a 2 day State Visit. Pity.
 
So only a 2 day State Visit. Pity.
I agree its a pity just two days.. so its unlikely there is a return dinner or concert on the second day. ( I cant remember any return dinner during a Spanish state visit abroad but it seems to be Swedish tradition)
 
The programme of the visit

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pre...rammetikorthet.5.475b65fc17cdf6a9681b643.html

Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18864.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/17/pdfs/BOE-A-2021-18864.pdf


Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.
 
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..
 
Between 1998 and 2002 there was a reform of the laws that regulate Spanish decorations and the norm is more restrictive. The order of Charles III is more restrictive and that has led to more orders of Isabella or Civil Merit being granted. Even Queen Letizia continues with her Grand Cross of the Order of Charles III and has not yet received the necklace that her mother-in-law does have.

They apply a logic according to which when Victoria becomes queen and they visit Spain, she will receive the Order of Charles III and Daniel the order of Isabella, and when Felipe will visit Sweden again, Victoria will receive the Golden Fleece and Daniel (as Silvia now) the Order of Charles III.
 
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..

I suspect the reason Camilla did not receive a Spanish order is because of the principal of reciprocity. The British do not offer spouses of other royal families with orders. So King Felipe received the Garter, but Letizia did not. I suspect that is why Camilla did not receive one.
 
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..

The exchange of decorations is governed by diplomatic rules of reciprocity, so the decorations that are exchanged are of similar rank.

Letizia did not receive any British decorations, and Camilla and Kate did not receive Spanish decorations. Who, by decision of the British Royal House, performed a role of companions on the visit were decorated.
 
The exchange of decorations is governed by diplomatic rules of reciprocity, so the decorations that are exchanged are of similar rank.

Letizia did not receive any British decorations, and Camilla and Kate did not receive Spanish decorations. Who, by decision of the British Royal House, performed a role of companions on the visit were decorated.
But Harry, Anne, and Andrew received an low class of the Isabella order, why was not the same given to Camilla?
 
Back
Top Bottom