State Visit from The King and Queen of Spain: November 24-25 2021

[Blog Real]

We have a state visit from Spain to Sweden on Nov 24th and 25th.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/ju...aparet/7914479

[muriel]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

We have a state visit from Spain to Sweden on Nov 24th and 25th.

https://www.svenskdam.se/kungligt/ju...aparet/7914479

Look forward to it. Monarchy to monarchy state visits usually give us serious levels of bling.

[carlota]

i am looking forward to this. we haven't had many monachy to monachy state visits lately with COVID, so this will be quite exciting.

[Mbruno]

I saw a picture of King Carl Gustaf and Queen Silvia's state visit to Spain in 1983 and King Carl Gustaf wore the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece, whereas King Juan Carlos wore the collar of the Order of the Seraphim, see link below.


https://royalwatcherblog.com/2019/03...to-spain-1983/



Like King Carl Gustaf, Queen Beatrix, Emperor Akihito, and King Albert II also chose to wear the collar of the Fleece on state visits, but Queen Elizabeth II famously did not (she only wore the dame's ribbon insignia in 1989 and 2017). King Juan Carlos himself rarely wears the collar. The only time I remember seeing him with the collar was at Prince Felipe's wedding, but there may have been other occasions too which I missed.


Anyway, assuming that the Spanish state vist to Sweden in November is confirmed, can we expect King Carl Gustaf to wear the collar of the Fleece again?



Wikipedia says that Felipe, as Prince of Asturias, was also made a Knight of the Seraphim with collar. Normally, I would expect him to wear only the Grand Cross in Sweden, but, given his father's precedent in 1983 (albeit in Spain, not in Sweden), can we expect King Felipe to wear the collar of the Seraphim too?



It would be quite nice if both monarchs had collars, which is a quite rare sighting!

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

King Juan Carlos himself rarely wears the collar. The only time I remember seeing him with the collar was at Prince Felipe's wedding, but there may have been other occasions too which I missed.


!

If i remeber right he wore it also at the wedding of his daughters,.
But interesting to see that Queen Silvia was only awarded the Order of Isabel the catholic and not the Order of Carlos III. which is usually given to Queen Consorts.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Stefan

If i remeber right he wore it also at the wedding of his daughters,.
But interesting to see that Queen Silvia was only awarded the Order of Isabel the catholic and not the Order of Carlos III. which is usually given to Queen Consorts.

Of course! I missed it because I didn't watch the weddings of the Infantas.


You are right. Normally the queens consort receive the Order of Carlos III, but I suppose that is decided by the Spanish government since both the order of Carlos III and the order of Isabella the Catholic are civil (not dynastic) orders. Maybe Queen Silvia will get the Grand Cross of Carlos III this time and CP Victoria might get either the Order of Carlos III or the Order of Isabella the Catholic. Crown Princes normally get the latter, but Prince Charles for example received the former.

[An Ard Ri]

And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!

For sure she will get the Order of the Serpahim.
And Prince Daniel will get likely a spanish Order. This will be then his first from an european Monarchy except Sweden of course.

[Mary-Rose]

Originally Posted by An Ard Ri

And hopefully queen Letizia will get a Swedish order too!

It seems to be "safe" she will receive the Order of the seraphim.. And For Silvia finally the Order of Charles III as she received just The Order of Isabella the catholic previously.. For Victoria, Daniel, CP and Sofia i expect the Order of Isabella the catholic, If Cristina attend she most likely wears the Isabella Order too(she received 1979) As unlikely it is for Madeleine- If she is in Sweden I could imagine The Order of Merit Grand Cross

BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4...ge=3#Kalendern

[Blog Real]

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose

BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4...ge=3#Kalendern

I also believe that the visit will last for 3 days. I hope the visit will be officially announced by the end of this month.

[An Ard Ri]

Originally Posted by Stefan

For sure she will get the Order of the Serpahim.
And Prince Daniel will get likely a spanish Order. This will be then his first from an european Monarchy except Sweden of course.

That's very true as I hadn't realized Prince Daniel didn't have any foreign royal orders and currently has the Royal Order of the Seraphim and the Royal Order of the Polar Star from Sweden.

[Mary-Rose]

Originally Posted by Blog Real

I also believe that the visit will last for 3 days. I hope the visit will be officially announced by the end of this month.

I think the German state visit to sweden was announced two weeks before it started. So we might have to wait a bit longer..

[Kingen]

I have also reflected on that Queen Silvia "only" received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. She might get another order this time.

I have been thinking about the order Crown Princess Victoria would receive as well, and it seems there is no logic in previous awards. Willem-Alexander was awarded the Order of Isabella the Catholic, but Crown Prince Haakon the Order of Carlos III. Let us see what practice King Felipe will set

I doubt King Felipe has the Order of the Seraphim with the collar. The Order only has one grade Knight/member, but the collar is seen as special distinction to Heads of State. In practice that means fellow monarchs, or the President from Iceland and Finland. As King Felipe already is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim it's likely that he will receive the collar during this State visit. On the other hand, if was to be made a Knight during this state visit, he would receive the collar during the next Swedish state visit.

[Mbruno]

Originally Posted by Kingen

I have also reflected on that Queen Silvia "only" received the Order of Isabella the Catholic. She might get another order this time.

I have been thinking about the order Crown Princess Victoria would receive as well, and it seems there is no logic in previous awards. Willem-Alexander was awarded the Order of Isabella the Catholic, but Crown Prince Haakon the Order of Carlos III. Let us see what practice King Felipe will set

The King of Spain actually has several options in terms of orders that are awarded as diplomatic courtesy.



The Golden Fleece is more or less like the Garter in the sense that it should be in theory in the personal gift of the King as a dynastic order. There is some debate on whether that is still strictly true today or not, but, in any case, it is a very exclusive order (currently there are only 17 living members, including 3 members of the Spanish Royal Family) and no one in Sweden is expected to receive it other than King Carl Gustaf, who is already a Knight.



The other orders are civil orders in which, according to the statutes, awards are pre-approved in the Council of Ministers and then made by royal decree on the recommendation of a responsible minister, which I interpret as meaning that they are decided by the government. As diplomatic courtesy, three options are used: the order of Charles III (Carlos III in Spanish), the order of Isabella the Catholic (Isabel la Católica in Spanish) and, as mentioned above but often forgotten, the order of Civil Merit. The collar, both of Charles III and Isabella the Catholic, are reserved normally for Heads of State, whereas consorts normally get the Grand Cross, which, in Spain, is a lower grade. As you have mentioned, some Crown Princes (Willem-Alexander and Philippe) received the order of Isabella the Catholic, whereas others (the Prince of Wales and Haakon) received the order of Charles III, so it is mostly unpredictable. In recent years, the Spanish government even awarded only the Encomienda de Número of Isabella the Catholic (equivalent to a grade like Knight Commander) to Princess Anne and Prince Andrew, which I find a little bit rude.



If I had to guess, I would say


Queen Silvia: upgraded to the Grand Cross of Charles III;


Victoria and Daniel: Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic, or Grand Cross of Charles III for Victoria and Grand Cross of Isabella the Catholic for Daniel (the former as for Philippe/Mathilde and the latter as for Haakon/Mette-Marit);


Carl-Philip and Sofia: no Spanish order, or perhaps the Grand Cross of Civil Merit.

I doubt King Felipe has the Order of the Seraphim with the collar. The Order only has one grade Knight/member, but the collar is seen as special distinction to Heads of State. In practice that means fellow monarchs, or the President from Iceland and Finland. As King Felipe already is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim it's likely that he will receive the collar during this State visit. On the other hand, if was to be made a Knight during this state visit, he would receive the collar during the next Swedish state visit.

The Wikipedia page on "List of Knights of the Seraphim" shows Felipe's coat of arms as Prince of Asturias surrounded by the collar of the Seraphim rather than the grand cross only. However, another page on "List of hono(u)rs of the Spanish royal family by country" lists only Juan Carlos as "Knight with collar", so suppose you are right. In any case, if King Felipe doesn't have the collar yet, it is a good opportunity for him to get it now and even more reason for him to wear it in Sweden.

[Kingen]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

The Wikipedia page on "List of Knights of the Seraphim" shows Felipe's coat of arms as Prince of Asturias surrounded by the collar of the Seraphim rather than the grand cross only. However, another page on "List of hono(u)rs of the Spanish royal family by country" lists only Juan Carlos as "Knight with collar", so suppose you are right. In any case, if King Felipe doesn't have the collar yet, it is a good opportunity for him to get it now and even more reason for him to wear it in Sweden.

For some reason all men (Knights) with the Order of Seraphim have the collar pictured at the Coat of arms, while most women (Members) have the blue sash pictured. So the Coat of arms is not the best guidance in this case. Hopefully, it might be a change in how the orders are presented and listed with the reform on orders in Sweden.

[lula]

Originally Posted by Mbruno

T
As you have mentioned, some Crown Princes (Willem-Alexander and Philippe) received the order of Isabella the Catholic, whereas others (the Prince of Wales and Haakon) received the order of Charles III, so it is mostly unpredictable. In recent years, the Spanish government even awarded only the Encomienda de Número of Isabella the Catholic (equivalent to a grade like Knight Commander) to Princess Anne and Prince Andrew, which I find a little bit rude.

Prince of Wales received the order of Charles III in 1986, maybe it was a gesture from Juan Carlos, the rest of the Crown Princes received the order of Isabella the Catholic. The change occurs with Prince Haakon in 2006, but it may be because in 2002 there was a change in the order's legislation. Nor is it strange that when they count on an exchange of visits in the near future, they start with the order of Isabella the Catholic, and then go up in importance of the orders with each visit.

In the British case, Queen Letizia and other members of the Spanish delegation did not receive British orders, so due to the principle of reciprocity the British could not have received them, and exceptions were made, but opting for a lower degree than usual.

[Mary-Rose]

Originally Posted by Mary-Rose

BTW the Swedish royal house updated the Calendar for complete November, except November 23-25. I hope its a three days state visit and not just two days ..

https://www.kungahuset.se/kalender.4...ge=3#Kalendern

Unfortunately the Swedish court made an calendar update and added an event for King,Queen and CP Couple for November 23rd. So If this state visit take place i don't think its a three day visit..

[lula]

The Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially confirms the visit from November 23 to 25

http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/...1_COMU082.aspx

https://twitter.com/alexandropress/s...48029516517378

The king and queen will arrive on the 23rd and the events will be on the 24th and 25th according to the Swedish Royal House.

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pres...e0a7100c3.html

[LadyFinn]

Press release in english from the Swedish Royal Court
State Visit from Spain - Sveriges Kungahus

[An Ard Ri]

A shorter State visit than normal but to be expected with Covid restrictions and thankfully going ahead.

It will a busy 2 days!