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  #21  
Old 10-21-2021, 09:55 AM
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Is this the first time the Kings of Spain have been to Sweden since Princess Victoria's wedding?
Felipe and Letizia were not at Princess Madeleine's wedding in 2013 nor were they at Prince Carl Philip's wedding in 2015.

It seems that King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia arrive in Sweden on the 23rd. But it will be a shorter visit than usual.
I'm glad the visit will go ahead.
https://www.abc.es/espana/casa-real/...3_noticia.html

https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal...1_COMU082.aspx
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  #22  
Old 10-21-2021, 11:23 AM
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So only a 2 day State Visit. Pity.
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  #23  
Old 10-21-2021, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
So only a 2 day State Visit. Pity.
I agree its a pity just two days.. so its unlikely there is a return dinner or concert on the second day. ( I cant remember any return dinner during a Spanish state visit abroad but it seems to be Swedish tradition)
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  #24  
Old 11-16-2021, 07:42 AM
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The programme of the visit

https://www.kungahuset.se/press/pres...a9681b643.html

Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18864.pdf
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  #25  
Old 11-17-2021, 05:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18864.pdf

Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.
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  #26  
Old 11-17-2021, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..
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  #27  
Old 11-17-2021, 06:43 AM
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Between 1998 and 2002 there was a reform of the laws that regulate Spanish decorations and the norm is more restrictive. The order of Charles III is more restrictive and that has led to more orders of Isabella or Civil Merit being granted. Even Queen Letizia continues with her Grand Cross of the Order of Charles III and has not yet received the necklace that her mother-in-law does have.

They apply a logic according to which when Victoria becomes queen and they visit Spain, she will receive the Order of Charles III and Daniel the order of Isabella, and when Felipe will visit Sweden again, Victoria will receive the Golden Fleece and Daniel (as Silvia now) the Order of Charles III.
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  #28  
Old 11-17-2021, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Mary-Rose View Post
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..
I suspect the reason Camilla did not receive a Spanish order is because of the principal of reciprocity. The British do not offer spouses of other royal families with orders. So King Felipe received the Garter, but Letizia did not. I suspect that is why Camilla did not receive one.
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  #29  
Old 11-17-2021, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mary-Rose View Post
It´s a bit strange in my opinion.. I will never understand the order policy of the Spanish royals.. It was strange Camilla has not received any order during the state visit and it was strange Carla Bruni received the Order of Charles III.. And now?? Im not suprised Sofia to receive this low Order but Daniel?? I mean at an state visit in the future Victoria has to receive the Order of Charles III, and someday the Golden Fleece (As Queen) And Daniel? Later on Isabella Order and as Prince Consort Charles III? maybe it makes sense....?
This theory implies that there will be two more spain/sweden state visits in far future..
The exchange of decorations is governed by diplomatic rules of reciprocity, so the decorations that are exchanged are of similar rank.

Letizia did not receive any British decorations, and Camilla and Kate did not receive Spanish decorations. Who, by decision of the British Royal House, performed a role of companions on the visit were decorated.
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  #30  
Old 11-17-2021, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The exchange of decorations is governed by diplomatic rules of reciprocity, so the decorations that are exchanged are of similar rank.

Letizia did not receive any British decorations, and Camilla and Kate did not receive Spanish decorations. Who, by decision of the British Royal House, performed a role of companions on the visit were decorated.
But Harry, Anne, and Andrew received an low class of the Isabella order, why was not the same given to Camilla?
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  #31  
Old 11-17-2021, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.
This sounds really strange. Are you saying that Máxima got her order prior to her marriage to Willem-Alexander? Did they visit during their engagement and was she somehow included?

N.B. It is Zorreguieta
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  #32  
Old 11-17-2021, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Mary-Rose View Post
But Harry, Anne, and Andrew received an low class of the Isabella order, why was not the same given to Camilla?
Because the three of them were chosen by the Queen as companions of the King and Queen in acts of the visit: visit to Westminster Abbey, Guildhall banquet and visit to Francis Crick Institute. And I suppose that according to British logic that means that they did have an active role in the visit and could be decorated.
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  #33  
Old 11-17-2021, 07:18 AM
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This sounds really strange. Are you saying that Máxima got her order prior to her marriage to Willem-Alexander? Did they visit during their engagement and was she somehow included?

N.B. It is Zorreguieta

Yes there was a spanish State Visit top the Netherlands in autumn 2001 where Máxima got the Order of Isabel the catholic.
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  #34  
Old 11-17-2021, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Royal Decree 1010/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Royal and Distinguished Spanish Order of Charles III is awarded to Her Majesty Queen Silvia of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18858.pdf

Royal Decree 1011/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Victoria of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18859.pdf

Royal Decree 1013/2021, of November 16, which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Daniel of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18861.pdf

Royal Decree 1014/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to His Royal Highness, Prince Carl Philip of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18862.pdf

Royal Decree 1015/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to Her Royal Highness, Princess Sofia of the Kingdom of Sweden.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18863.pdf

Royal Decree 1012/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18860.pdf

Royal Decree 1016/2021, of November 16, by which the Grand Cross of the Order of Civil Merit is awarded to the Swedish personalities who are cited.
https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2021/11/...2021-18864.pdf

I got all my guesses right, except the Order of Civil Merit for Daniel. I was expecting the Order of Isabella the Catholic.


Note that the royal decree awarding the Grand Cross of the Order of Charles III is countersigned by the Prime Minister (Presidente del Gobierno) and appears in the section of the Office of the Prime Minister. That is because the Prime Minister is the Grand Chancellor of the Order of Charles III. Conversely, both the Order of Isabella the Catholic and the Order of Civil Merit are under the responsibility of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who countersigns the RDs as Grand Chancellor. The King of Spain of course also signs all the RDs (Felipe R) as the Grand Master of the royal orders and the "fountain of honors" under Art. 62(f) of the Spanish constitution.


Quote:
Article 62 [Competences]
It is incumbent upon the King:
[...]

f) to issue the decrees approved in the Council of Ministers, confer civilian and military positions, and award honors and distinctions in accordance with the law;
[...]
Any news on Swedish orders for King Felipe VI and Queen Letizia?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Why does Prince Daniel not get the same Order then his wife?. As far as i remeber Queen Máxima (and then still Máxima Zirreguieta) and queen Mathilde both got the Order of Isabel the Catholic.

They did indeed. Daniel has been somewhat downgraded compared to other consorts, but at least he got a Grand Cross.
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  #35  
Old 11-17-2021, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Yes there was a spanish State Visit top the Netherlands in autumn 2001 where Máxima got the Order of Isabel the catholic.
The Dutch Royal House considered that the fiancee was part of the Royal Family and participated both in the gala dinner where she wore the family's aquamarine tiara, and in the reception offered by the King and Queen of Spain.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...92?s=2048x2048

Previously, Máxima had also come with a tiara to the wedding of Prince Haakon and Mette Marit (for example, Letizia went to the Danish wedding a week before hers, but did not wear a tiara). In short, although she was not married, Maxima was already an official part of the family.
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  #36  
Old 11-17-2021, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The Dutch Royal House considered that the fiancee was part of the Royal Family and participated both in the gala dinner where she wore the family's aquamarine tiara, and in the reception offered by the King and Queen of Spain.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...92?s=2048x2048

Previously, Máxima had also come with a tiara to the wedding of Prince Haakon and Mette Marit (for example, Letizia went to the Danish wedding a week before hers, but did not wear a tiara). In short, although she was not married, Maxima was already an official part of the family.



Queen Beatrix looked very regal with the collar of the Order of the Golden Fleece and the Württemberg tiara. In fact, they all look nice in the picture despite King JC's odd facial expression.
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  #37  
Old 11-17-2021, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
The Dutch Royal House considered that the fiancee was part of the Royal Family and participated both in the gala dinner where she wore the family's aquamarine tiara, and in the reception offered by the King and Queen of Spain.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos...92?s=2048x2048

Previously, Máxima had also come with a tiara to the wedding of Prince Haakon and Mette Marit (for example, Letizia went to the Danish wedding a week before hers, but did not wear a tiara). In short, although she was not married, Maxima was already an official part of the family.

Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.
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  #38  
Old 11-17-2021, 09:36 AM
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Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.
The most important change was in 2002 that restricted the use of the order of Charles III, and that led to other orders being used. Before that date the use of the order of Charles III was more extended even among Heads of State, and the use of the Civil Merit order was strange. The change in the late 90s, was only to eliminate the "lady" version of the orders and make the same for men and women (until the early 80s the Order of Charles III was only for men).
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  #39  
Old 11-17-2021, 09:48 AM
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Maybe but i still find it nor right to give the an higher Order to a fiancée of an Heir then to a person who is since 11 years married to an Heir. And the changes you have mentioned where apparently already in work by then.

There is a different King and a different government in Spain right now, so the criteria for decorations may have changed.
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  #40  
Old 11-17-2021, 10:10 AM
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There is a different King and a different government in Spain right now, so the criteria for decorations may have changed.

Maybe but Empress Masako also got the Order of Isabel the catholic as Crown Princess and after just looking at pics even Princess Kiko. And that was during King Felipe's reign. At last they are wearing it in 2017.
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