Royal Roles & Titles for the Spouses of Victoria, Carl Philip & Madeleine

[Next Star]

I know that the members of the Swedish royal family might lose their royal titles because they marry commoner. But they might still lose their royal title by marrying a noble adleast they hold a title in their own right. Why? can't the king create their spouse a prince or princess maybe even duke or duchess.

 

[Lyle]

Well, considering the fact that Carl Gustaf gave his uncle, Prince Bertil, permission to marry a commoner divorcee (Princess Lillian) and allowed him to keep his royal title, I think it's almost certain that everyone of the Swedish royal kids will get to keep their royal titles, regardless of who they marry.

 

[Next Star]

That is good to allow to follow their heart and marry the person regardless in they hold a title or not. I hope that this will conitnue letting them marry for love and not for duty.

 

[principessa]

Royal Roles for the Future Spouses of Carl Philip and Madeleine

If the both will marry, will Emma Pernald than be styled HRH Princess Emma of Sweden and will their children also bear royal titles and will Princess Madeleine after getting a wife still be HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, Mrs. Bergström or will Jonas get the title of a Prince of Sweden? And what about the children of Madeleine and Jonas?

 

[annieblack]

If the both will marry, will Emma Pernald than be styled HRH Princess Emma of Sweden and will their children also bear royal titles and will Princess Madeleine after getting a wife still be HRH Princess Madeleine of Sweden, Mrs. Bergström or will Jonas get the title of a Prince of Sweden? And what about the children of Madeleine and Jonas?

If you look at other Royal families when a Prince gets married then his wife will take on a title but if a man marries into the Royal family he is still just Mr, unless he is going to be married to a Queen. For Madeleine to loose her HRH it would likely be up to her and only if she wanted to start business activities like the Norweigan Princess

 

[annieblack]

Unless Madeleine wants to give up her HRH then she will keep it and Emma will take a title on. With the children they usually take after the father side with titles so Carl-Philip children would be princess or prince but Madeleine would have a title unless the King bestows one on them personally.

 

[HRHofNothing]

Royal Roles for the Future Spouses of Carl Philip and Madeleine

What royal roles if any, would the future spouses of these two younger royals have within sweden?

I magine that since Carl Philip's wife will be a Princess of Sweden she would have some royal duties, wheras Madeline's husband (who probably will remain a commoner) will have none.

 

[princess leonor]

Won't they be supporing the crownprince couple at some important royal events? Why would Madeline's husband remain a commoner, would he be granted no royal title at all, I mean maybe not prince then, but count or duke or something?

 

[HRHofNothing]

Won't they be supporing the crownprince couple at some important royal events? Why would Madeline's husband remain a commoner, would he be granted no royal title at all, I mean maybe not prince then, but count or duke or something?

There is debate as to wether Victoria's husband will be granted a title so I really doubt is Madeline's husband will have a title.

 

[randomlyKeira]

I think that it woudl be abit of an insult, and probably a little degrading if Victoria's husband didn't get a title. He'd be consort, so that seems sort of odd that he woudln't have a title.

Madeline's husband would probably be offered a title, but it would be up to him if he took it or not. But he'd never be a "commoner" as he'd be husband of a high-ranking Princess and member of the royal family. Her children might have subsidary titles, wouldn't they? I'm not sure what the titles are in Sweeden, but in England a Duchess (in her own right) would still have her children with the title of Lady and subsidary title for the heir to the title. Correct me please, anyone, as I'm not sure how it works in Sweeden.

 

[Helen88]

I was wondering...when Carl Gustaf was young, wasn't it that way that he couldn't marry a commoner without losing his right to the throne? (I thought that was why he only married Silvia when he was king because then he could actually manage a commoner). Would it not be the same with the royal children? Or did they change this? All the king's sisters are no longer members of the Royal Family, are they? But, it just strikes me that Brigitta married a prince so shouldn't she still be in the family? Confusing...

 

[Stefan]

I was wondering...when Carl Gustaf was young, wasn't it that way that he couldn't marry a commoner without losing his right to the throne? (I thought that was why he only married Silvia when he was king because then he could actually manage a commoner). Would it not be the same with the royal children? Or did they change this? All the king's sisters are no longer members of the Royal Family, are they? But, it just strikes me that Brigitta married a prince so shouldn't she still be in the family? Confusing...

First the Constitution was changed in 1974 and now marriages to commomers are allowed. It would be strange if CArl Gustaf's children wpuld loose their succession-right by marriage to a commoner when they have a mother who was a commoner. Yes Princess Birgitta is the only of the King's sisters who is still HRH. The other 3 lost it at their marriage like the sisters of King Harald V. of Norway. The also never had sucession-rights.

 

[Helen88]

But still Madeleine's husband would not be a prince, would he? Carl Philip's wife would be a princess still?

 

[annieblack]

A man marrying a princess doesn't automatically recieve a title but a woman marrying a prince would automatically recieve her husbands titles.

 

[Boris]

No. In the Bernadotte's case, this is not correct.
The question of titles for future spouses of the King's children is totally undecided as of now. It's the first time in Swedish history that all his children all remain dynasts regardless of whom they choose to marry, so this will create a new precedent under the new constitutional laws.
In this age of equal rights, it's not a given at all that a future wife of Prince Carl Phillip will become a Princess while a future husband will not become Prince.
It's very possible that titles will be given (or withheld) regardless of the sex, stressing the point of equality. It's going to be an interesting decision, completely up in the air right now.

 

[Next Star]

Yes I still think Carl-Philp and Madeleine will help their older sister with the royal duites and support her in her future role as queen.Now about this title situation the king is the only one who can give out titles to members of the royal family upon his
decesion to do so or not.

 

[HRHofNothing]

No. In the Bernadotte's case, this is not correct.
The question of titles for future spouses of the King's children is totally undecided as of now. It's the first time in Swedish history that all his children all remain dynasts regardless of whom they choose to marry, so this will create a new precedent under the new constitutional laws.
In this age of equal rights, it's not a given at all that a future wife of Prince Carl Phillip will become a Princess while a future husband will not become Prince.
It's very possible that titles will be given (or withheld) regardless of the sex, stressing the point of equality. It's going to be an interesting decision, completely up in the air right now.

I cannot imagine a female spouse of Carl Philip not becoming a Princess. After all, any children they might have will be Princes and Princesses and it would be wierd if their Mother was not.

Madeline's husband will get a count of possibly a duke title but there is no way that in this day and age of downsizing of Royal families will he become a Prince...

I am sure Victoria's husband will be a Prince as heir consort but I don't think he will have his own Dukedom- probably courtesy style of Dukes of Vestergotland.

 

[Kotroman]

But he'd never be a "commoner" as he'd be husband of a high-ranking Princess and member of the royal family.

Err, yes he would remain a commoner unless he is given the title of prince. Husband of The Princess Royal of the United Kingdom and husbands of The Duchesses of Lugo and Palma de Mallorca are not royal, regardless of the fact that each of them is married to a daughter of a sovereign.

Her children might have subsidary titles, wouldn't they? I'm not sure what the titles are in Sweeden, but in England a Duchess (in her own right) would still have her children with the title of Lady and subsidary title for the heir to the title. Correct me please, anyone, as I'm not sure how it works in Sweeden.

*Succession to British dukedoms follows Salic law, so there cannot be a duchess in her own right unless the Sovereign grants a special remainder in default of male issue. Futhermore, British peerage titles are substantive, while Princess Madelaine's title is a mere courtesy title. In this case, Madelaine can't be compared to a peeress - she can be compared, however, to a peer's daughter, whose children would hold no courtesy title if their father was a commoner.

It's very possible that titles will be given (or withheld) regardless of the sex, stressing the point of equality. It's going to be an interesting decision, completely up in the air right now.

Unfortunatly, I believe this not far from the truth. This "gender equality" issue slowly transforms the system of titles and styles into something unrecognizable. Who knows, perhaps wife of the next King of Sweden (Victoria's son, for example) won't be queen at all. "His Majesty The King and Mrs Bernadotte". I think that's sad.

 

[avrilo]

Err, yes he would remain a commoner unless he is given the title of prince. Husband of The Princess Royal of the United Kingdom and husbands of The Duchesses of Lugo and Palma de Mallorca are not royal, regardless of the fact that each of them is married to a daughter of a sovereign.

Err nop, that is not correct. Iñaki Undargarin and Jaime the Marichalar ARE Dukes of Palma and Lugo respectively and referred to as their excelencies.Their children hold no title

They are also refered to as DON which means of the noble origen. I believe Spain is particular case, because their wives are NOT PRINCESSES of Spain but Infantas of Spain and an infante is not exactly the same than a princess.

I don't think Spain is a good reference to guide us over what will happen in Sweden.

 

[Kotroman]

I didn't say they were titleless. I said they are not royal - they are not Infantes of Spain, are they? They hold a noble title, but so does a number of Spanish nobles which doesn't make them royal.

As for the title of infant(a), the difference exists in Spain and Portugal only. In English usage, Spanish infanta ranks like any other European royal princess which makes the two titles comparable.

I didn't say that Sweden will follow Spain. I just used the Spanish example to explain that husband of a royal woman doesn't automatically become royal himself.

 

[lyndaW]

Well if nothing else it should be interesting to see what the King does in the future

 

[HRHofNothing]

Well if nothing else it should be interesting to see what the King does in the future

You did not have to wait long for your answer

With Daniel sharing Victoria's title and it not being clear if he is going to be a HRH, there is no way a future hubby of Madde is going to get anything. He will have to be content to be a Mr.

I would still be surprised if Carl Philip's wife did not get a HRH Princess.

 

[linneatherose]

I dont know. I dont think Emma would get any special title if jonas didn't. I think they'll both get small titles- but you never know.. Isnt the king's sister's husband a Mr.??

 

[HRHofNothing]

Royal "Duties"

With the addition of a Prince to the Swedish Royal Family soon, I was thinking about Royal engagements that the family performs.

The Swedish Monarch seems to have no political role beyond giving a speech at the opening of parliament every year, so all of his and the Queen Slyiva's engagement are of a social-ceremonial nature. They keep a pretty decent schedule- not overloaded by any means. Crown Princess Victoria has her own schedule of duties which although of a significant number do not consume all of her time either. Carl Philip and Madeline also have some royal engagements but no where near a full schedule. Princess Lilian because of her advanced age barely performs any duties. There are no other HRH members of the Royal family.

Keeping this in mind I wans wondering what Royal Duties would be left for the new spouses to perform.

HRH Prince Daniel: Accompany CP Victoria on her various engagements, pick up a few patronages (possibly fitness related) and take over some duties from Carl-Philip. Enough for a relatively light full time schedule.

HRH Princess Carl-Philip: She will also take part in the somewhat reduced schedule of duties that her husband will be performing. A few patronages of her own. I just don't see a scenario where she won't become a HRH, so she will have to peform some duties.

Princess Madeline's Husband: None. I really dont think that after the entry of the above two there will be many royal engagements left for Madeline to perform- let alone her husband.

What does everyone think of my analysis- agree or disagree?

 

[Kotroman]

Yes, but The King's sisters' marriages were not considered equal.

 

[linneatherose]

Right, but Jonas, Emma and Daniel are not equals to Victoria, CP and Madeleine either, are they?

 

[Stefan]

Yes, but The King's sisters' marriages were not considered equal.

Princess Birgitta married equal as she married a german Prince.

 

[Kotroman]

I didn't say all of the King's sisters. I meant only those whose husbands are merely misters.

Right, but Jonas, Emma and Daniel are not equals to Victoria, CP and Madeleine either, are they?

As you can see, equal marriages are no longer recquired in Sweden (and most of the other European countries). The Queen of Sweden herself was not equal to her husband... until they married

Anyway, wife of The Duke of Värmland will surely be Duchess of Värmland (and possibly Princess of Sweden). Husband of The Duchess of Hälsingland and Gästrikland will probably be Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland (since it was announced that husband of The Duchess of Västergötland will be Duke of Västergötland). I also suppose that the future Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland will also be a Prince of Sweden if the future Duchess of Värmland gets the title of Princess of Sweden. I think that the future Duchess of Värmland and Duke of Hälsingland and Gästrikland should both get the Swedish princely titles because wives of princes are naturally princesses and husbands of princesses should become princes because of equal primogeniture.

 

[sirhon11234]

What would the titles of Madeline and Carl-Phillip's children be?

 

[rob2008]

Carl-Phillip was born to be king. His title in the future should really be King and his sisters princesses. They shouldnt allow marriage to commoners.